Beards

[MiserereNobis]

I was reading the last couple of pages on the modesty thread and there were a few posts that mentioned beards (or more specifically, the lack of them) in LDS leadership positions.

I was curious about the LDS relationship with beards.

I'd say most "rules" in religion can be categorized as doctrine, principle, rule, or cultural norm. Where does being clean shaven fall? I assume it is a rule for missionaries not to have beards because I've never seen one with facial hair. Why? I've read here that it's against the rules for men at BYU to have beards, too.

Is there any doctrine about this? Religious principle? Or are they just rules and/or cultural norms?

How much push back would someone get for having a beard if they were in a leadership position?

I googled the LDS apostles and none of them have beards. I assume this is a rule for them?

I wonder if LDS missionaries would have more success in cultures/religious areas where beards are looked upon as something positive, such as India, the Middle East, and places with high numbers of Eastern Orthodox.

Finally, what do you all think? Should the LDS church/culture be more open to beards? Or would that let the barbarians in the gate?

(full disclosure: I have a full beard and sometimes it has been as big as Pogi's avatar)

[MustardSeed]

IMO it’s simply cultural and a result of leadership responding to that gosh durned hippie culture of the 1960s-70s.
 

I have begged my husband to keep his goatee.  His bishop is a very clean cut proponent and has teased him passive aggressively, and as counselor he has felt some obligation to remove it.  However, I’m happy to say, he has settled into our preference and Bishop has adjusted. 
 

[bluebell]

Like MS said, it's not doctrine.  At most it's policy (such as in the temple or for missionaries) and at least it's the personal preference and opinions of other leaders.  The church is still struggling to recover from the 60s and 70s when it comes to facial hair.

[MiserereNobis]

34 minutes ago, bluebell said:

At most it's policy (such as in the temple or for missionaries)

Are you able to expand on beardlessness in the temple? Do members have to shave before they go?

And is this policy because of the reaction against the 60s and 70s? What's the view on men with long hair? (and patchouli...  )

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said:

Are you able to expand on beardlessness in the temple? Do members have to shave before they go?

And is this policy because of the reaction against the 60s and 70s? What's the view on men with long hair? (and patchouli...  )

Members who are called to serve in the temple are asked to be clean shaven.  You don't have to shave to attend the temple though.   

I think it's a carryover of the beard policy at BYU honestly.

[mfbukowski]

26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Members who are called to serve in the temple are asked to be clean shaven.  You don't have to shave to attend the temple though.   

I think it's a carryover of the beard policy at BYU honestly.

I agree exactly correct

The idea is that one should dress "conservatively", which in hippie days meant no long hair, wearing  suits in church etc.

In my stake in the early 80's, if you were called to any Ward Council position, you could not have facial hair.  

[Peacefully]

My temple-attending husband has had a beard on and off for many years. He currently has one. If he were called to a position where he was asked to be clean-shaven, I believe he would do it willingly. So many younger church members in our area have beards now that it doesn’t seem like a big deal anymore. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

IMO it’s simply cultural and a result of leadership responding to that gosh durned hippie culture of the 1960s-70s.
 

And the beatniks that started in the late '40s.   Basically, WWII ended, the US was on top of the world and full of victorious patriotic righteousness, Ezra Taft Benson was at the top of his game, and the beatniks and hippies were counter all that.

Edited August 28, 2021 by LoudmouthMormon

[pogi]

Beards were just way too sexy for women to handle. We had to shave to help them keep their thoughts pure. 

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Are you able to expand on beardlessness in the temple? Do members have to shave before they go?

And is this policy because of the reaction against the 60s and 70s? What's the view on men with long hair? (and patchouli...  )

Patrons need white pants, shirt and tie for men and a white modest long dress for women, which can be rented very inexpensively in most large temples. (@ cost of cleaning) Also either white shoes or slipper like white "booties".

There are also some white symbolic "vestments" (Catholic translation) for both men and women.

Re patchouli - strong scents for both men and women are discouraged

 

 

[BlueDreams]

5 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I was reading the last couple of pages on the modesty thread and there were a few posts that mentioned beards (or more specifically, the lack of them) in LDS leadership positions.

I was curious about the LDS relationship with beards.

I'd say most "rules" in religion can be categorized as doctrine, principle, rule, or cultural norm. Where does being clean shaven fall? I assume it is a rule for missionaries not to have beards because I've never seen one with facial hair. Why? I've read here that it's against the rules for men at BYU to have beards, too.

Is there any doctrine about this? Religious principle? Or are they just rules and/or cultural norms?

How much push back would someone get for having a beard if they were in a leadership position?

I googled the LDS apostles and none of them have beards. I assume this is a rule for them?

I wonder if LDS missionaries would have more success in cultures/religious areas where beards are looked upon as something positive, such as India, the Middle East, and places with high numbers of Eastern Orthodox.

Finally, what do you all think? Should the LDS church/culture be more open to beards? Or would that let the barbarians in the gate?

(full disclosure: I have a full beard and sometimes it has been as big as Pogi's avatar)

It is completely a cultural norm with no doctrinal relevance then people’s assumptions of what a “clean appearance” looks like. Same with long hair on men. How much this is a cultural norms seems to correlate a bit with how close one is to the mountain west (or how many in leadership/wards migrated from there).
 

my husband always has scruff and keeps his hair slightly above shoulder length. I’ve seen pics of him with short…I prefer it long. He does too. Our stake, for some dumb reason, has a policy that male leaders in bishoprics and stake Presidencies (maybe high counsel?) be clean shaven. I’ve told him if he ever gets said call his acceptance will be based on them accepting he can’t cut it. My stake leadership often has some very culturally mormon flavors to them. Some make me giggle others annoy me. This one’s somewhere in between eye roll. I think many are already opening up to beards. In the sense that younger people especially are more likely to get beardy. It’s common for young guys especially to play with growing out their hair/facial hair after missions or between semesters at BYU. This is just one of those weird things that is taking a while to die. 
 

with luv, 

BD 

Edited August 28, 2021 by BlueDreams

[mfbukowski]

1 minute ago, BlueDreams said:

It is completely a cultural norm with no doctrinal relevance then people’s assumptions of what a “clean appearance” looks like. Same with long hair on men. How much this is a cultural norms seems to correlate a bit with how close one is to the mountain west (or how many in leadership/wards migrated from there).
 

my husband always has scruff and keeps his hair slightly above shoulder length. I’ve seen pics of him with short…I prefer it long. He does too. Our stake, for some dumb reason, has a policy that male leaders in bishoprics and stake Presidencies (maybe high counsel?) be clean shaven. I’ve told him if he ever gets said call his acceptance will be based on them accepting he can’t cut it. My stake leadership often has some very culturally mormon flavors to them. Some make me giggle others annoy me. This one’s somewhere in between eye roll. I think many are already opening up to beards. In the sense that younger people especially are more likely to get beardy. It’s common for young guys especially to play with growing out their hair/facial hair after missions or between semesters at BYU. This is just one of those weird things that is taking a while to die. 
 

with luv, 

BD 

I'm my experience, those guidelines are pretty universal, not at all unique, but in my present stake, our bishop has a full beard.

Go figure!

[Rain]

44 minutes ago, pogi said:

Beards were just way too sexy for women to handle. We had to shave to help them keep their thoughts pure. 

Some while back calm mentioned men's necks.  I told my husband then, that yep, his neck still did something for me.

So I just read your quote to him and he laughed then said (paraphrased) "except in my case.  It would be better to keep my beard long to help my wife keep virtuous thoughts about my neck.  That's why I wear a high collar and tie to church."

[provoman]

Isn't David O McKay the first Prophet in th 20th century to not sport facial hair?

[JAHS]

10 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I was reading the last couple of pages on the modesty thread and there were a few posts that mentioned beards (or more specifically, the lack of them) in LDS leadership positions.

I was curious about the LDS relationship with beards.

I'd say most "rules" in religion can be categorized as doctrine, principle, rule, or cultural norm. Where does being clean shaven fall? I assume it is a rule for missionaries not to have beards because I've never seen one with facial hair. Why? I've read here that it's against the rules for men at BYU to have beards, too.

Is there any doctrine about this? Religious principle? Or are they just rules and/or cultural norms?

How much push back would someone get for having a beard if they were in a leadership position?

I googled the LDS apostles and none of them have beards. I assume this is a rule for them?

I wonder if LDS missionaries would have more success in cultures/religious areas where beards are looked upon as something positive, such as India, the Middle East, and places with high numbers of Eastern Orthodox.

Finally, what do you all think? Should the LDS church/culture be more open to beards? Or would that let the barbarians in the gate?

(full disclosure: I have a full beard and sometimes it has been as big as Pogi's avatar)

Right no beards.
12 Apostles of 1898

Its a cultural thing.  Back then it was typical to have beards. The church today wants it's representatives to be in line with the typical business appearance of the day.

 

[mfbukowski]

46 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Right no beards.
12 Apostles of 1898

Its a cultural thing.  Back then it was typical to have beards. The church today wants it's representatives to be in line with the typical business appearance of the day.

 

AND, they are on the way out, at this time,  making them more "conservative" = old fashioned!

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

Right no beards.
12 Apostles of 1898

Its a cultural thing.  Back then it was typical to have beards. The church today wants it's representatives to be in line with the typical business appearance of the day.

 

Dang, there are some nice beards there. The 19th century was a good time for facial hair. 
 

Why the desire to look like business men? I guess for me, a business man and a religious leader are very different. It seems odd to want to conflate the two.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Dang, there are some nice beards there. The 19th century was a good time for facial hair. 
 

Why the desire to look like business men? I guess for me, a business man and a religious leader are very different. It seems odd to want to conflate the two.

Because it was high end normal, I am guessing. Mormons were portrayed as uncouth types early 1900’s.  If we were seen as respectable and safe, more likely to invite us into your homes allowing us to suck you into the cult.  

Edited August 29, 2021 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Because it was high end normal, I am guessing. Mormons were portrayed as uncouth types early 1900’s.  If we were seen as respectable and safe, more likely to invite us into your homes to get d at sucked into the cult.  

Yes, the clean cut look invites trust. 

[3DOP]

There are beards and then...there are BEARDS. I prefer beards. When I grow BEARDS they get mayonnaise, peanut butter, and egg yolk in them. I am currently Lord Lackbeard (Much Ado About Nothing). 

With all respect to BEARD boys everywhere who can eat a sandwich without experiencing my problems...

Rory

[strappinglad]

My personal favorite.

orson pratt lds - Bing images

[3DOP]

7 hours ago, Rain said:

Some while back calm mentioned men's necks.  I told my husband then, that yep, his neck still did something for me.

So I just read your quote to him and he laughed then said (paraphrased) "except in my case.  It would be better to keep my beard long to help my wife keep virtuous thoughts about my neck.  That's why I wear a high collar and tie to church."

Women like neck hair?

The older I get, the more plentifully it is exhibited! My wife seems disappontingly ambivalent. She shaves mine at my request, without any expression of regret. Neck hair, if am correct, has been neither help nor hindrance to young romance nor old romance.

What about throat beards?  I think I am capable. One of those apostles/70 seemed to have a good one. 

 

 

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Women like neck hair?

Please no. I like to see the lines of necks. And jawlines, so beards shouldn’t be so bushy as to distort the line, maybe soften a little or used to disguise softness.  
 

I tend to look more at outlines and shading, light and dark, movement. 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, 3DOP said:

When I grow BEARDS they get mayonnaise, peanut butter, and egg yolk in them

Heck I can do that with a little goatee! My second lunch technique is highly refined....

 

[Ipod Touch]

12 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Are you able to expand on beardlessness in the temple?

Back in the days when I went to the Temple, most of the men on screen had beards.

When I was a BYU it was a running joke that the BYU honor code (especially re: beards) was more strict than temple requirements.