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Everything posted by 3DOP

  1. Lying awake at 3 AM, 3DOP is most pleased with the effort of mfbukowski to reach out. 3DOP perceives himself as an aging factory hand with fast diminishing mind and bodily faculties. But who also has a reservoir of knowledge remaining. I do not pretend that I am an idiot. I doubt that I will perceive flaws at a different hour. I suspect that someone else might spot a critical flaw. But at this time, which is not quite optimal, I find your remarks to reflect more than a desire to win an argument. That is the first reason that I like this post. The second reason I like this post, is that u
  2. 3DOP


    Some good points pop. God love you. Calvin seems misdirected. I don't want what I deserve. Nor do you. A lot of people deserve hell. Sure. Include me. But...I don't go so far as "when God tells you to do something do it". It has to make sense...to us. God honors our liberty. He honors our freedom. He doesn't wish us to obey Him at the price of our intellects. God is rational, and He made us so. Humility, yes. But I am not for elevating God's will to a place that is above reason. A good and rational God would not do that to the creation, made in his image. I sometimes say thing
  3. 3DOP


    I don't think Rivers was talking about those who die in original sin only. And that is not the way I understood Amerio. I like the quote and its argument for a different reason. But I took Amerio to be saying that those who commit actual sins would also be eligible for "varying degrees of real, but imperfect happiness". It seems disingenuous to cite Aquinas on Hell in general if Aquinas was only writing about the Limbo of the Children in particular. As a Catholic I am disappointed with Amerio apparently using Limbo to say that all the inhabitants of Hell can have imperfect happiness. Maybe I h
  4. Hey Mr. Gui. Thanks. You are right. I was wrong in my assumption that you did not know what you were talking about. Polish National Church...not happy with Rome. Happier with Pope Wojtyla (Voy-tee-wa). Sorry that my quote is not the one where Bernard cited documentation of 19th Century Polish schism from Rome. If one person says they wished I had the right quote that makes sense with my reply I will do it. But not tonight.
  5. Mark. I appreciate the research. I do not doubt that a lot of Catholics say that God the Father can't have a body because it would be philosophically absurd. I don't know why, or if they are right, but I do not assent that far. I would have to look in to why the Fathers say that God the Father MUST be unembodied. All I am saying is that I believe in the Catholic Church for other reasons, and if the Catholic Church taught otherwise, that the Father was corporeal, I would accept it, just as I accept His incorporeality because of what the Church has taught. I am not obligated to support the
  6. You are welcome my friend. I dunno...why is it then the Father is not embodied. I do not say that the Father could not be embodied. Only that He is not embodied. If the Church which I have accepted taught that God the Father was embodied I would believe it with all my heart. The human body of Christ, or of the Father cannot be omnipresent...as I am seeing it at this time. But I think you believe in omnipresence with material bodies. So...I am sure I could come round to such a position. But I would have to say that the omnipresence of a material being would need to be independent of t
  7. 3DOP


    Rivers, don't pay attention to that crap. It will just confirm you against the Catholic religion further. Rather than a pint, I hold to this "gallon" from Aquinas about Hell: St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that Hell is compatible with varying degrees of real though imperfect happiness." ---Iota Unum, Romano Amerio, A Study of Changes in the Catholic Church in the 20th Century, Sarto House, (Pope St. Pius X was named Giuseppe Sarto), fifth printing, Sept. 2004, p. 700. I will try to find the untranslated Latin that prompted this opinion from Amerio if desired, that corroborates what
  8. If it were practicable as a Traditional Catholic, I would move to Poland with all of my progeny. Yesterday. I have never heard of a branch of Polish Catholicism that was separated from Rome. Even as Novus Ordo Catholics, at home and abroad, Polish Catholicism has retained a robust sense of Traditional Catholic teaching and morality. There is a St. Stanislaus Polish Catholic Church in Portland, OR that I once visited. The reason they identified as Polish was so that anybody attending would know that the Mass would not be in English, which has been the norm in America for over fifty years now. T
  9. Hamba, to the question about our Lord's Resurrected Body? A million million times YES. YES. Forever and forever. Why would He leave us? What would He do with His most Sacred Body? I almost replied to a comment by Calm about her Mom's funeral, and her Mom's corpse, or "shell", as I didn't like it being described. Calm, you know I love you, understood in the inferior, Platonic (oh that's a good one!) internet way. I am only saying that it was my Catholic instinct kicking in, regretting that one could perceive a human corpse that way. But I knew you meant no disrespect towards your Mom, so I
  10. Just for the record Hamba...Catholics believe that matter is good. We teach this. This isn't defined...but it is more than permissible speculation for Catholics to hold that Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled, because Lucifer got wind of the idea that the Second Person of the Trinity was going to become incarnate. It was an immaterial Satan who couldn't abide flesh, according to most Catholic scholars. I know you think everything is made out of matter. We don't. But it isn't because we think it is "yucky". Why would we kneel after every low Mass at the words, "the Word became fle
  11. No calm...This was how I saw it: "...evidence of the Apostasy among other things as key to determining whether the Roman Catholic faith or the Restored Church was the one with authority." I would change that to a Restored "religion of some kind". I touch on this in my last post to Damien on this thread.
  12. Absolutely Damien. Me too. It became clear that the Protestant response to claims of need to merely reform was inadequate. (This is where LDS claims were very helpful in the early 90's.). Becuase of LDS exposure of Protestant failings I could be Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim (which sect?), LDS (which sect?), or Restorationist-in-Waiting. It made me dig in to the question of a Great Apostasy. Briefly, what I found was that I wanted to have the faith that subdued pagan Rome, and made it freely and penitently kneel to the God of Heaven. This cut out all but Rome or possibly Orthodoxy. I decide
  13. I was only talking about the word "Christian" with a loose definition; I was not saying that this is an equalizer. LDS identify as Christian. What else could you be? But if I am the principal of a Catholic school, my students need to be Catholic. Would you agree with the Catholic Church that it would be wrong to baptize a non-Catholic child without the parents permission? I hope you would agree with the Catholic Church that this would be wrong. Catholics believe that both reason and revelation point to the truth that parents are the primary teachers of children. It is only confusing to a child
  14. Hey Calm... I wish I hadn't missed this thread. But it has been a good read so far. Miserere needs no help anyway. I just talked to Dave a couple of hours ago. It is a while ago already and my memory may be failing. But I have never understood his decision to discontinue his association with the Catholic Church with historical problems. You were replying to Ipod above about someone named Paul Dunn, who I think was a discredited apostle or something like that. I doubt I would have had much opinion about that. I could not figure out what was "the same thing" that Dave certainly sa
  15. Wow. I had heard of "click" and did not know what it meant. Thanks. A son-in-law and daughter in law are metric as well as Centigrade. I try to love them anyway...🤪...
  16. How did I miss that thread???? It appears from what I have seen that you were very thorough and indeed to some extent, persuasive, because you had modest, attainable goals. You were not trying to prove the LDS to be false, but rather only highlighted the possibility that it is easy for LDS to misunderstand what Catholics have always believed in regard to apostolic authority and revelation in the Catholic Church. Anyway, bravo. I probably won't add to the remarks in this thread or that one, but wanted to thank you for the generous and thoughtful manner in which you have represented our Catholic
  17. I am a Trinitarian. Elder Bednar's observation was not in malice. It was true. It was humorous. It makes me think Elder Bednar and his listeners wish we could agree on more things. I doubt from your limited exposure that your extended family represent what you might correctly associate with what you have called "southern Christian". What you have observed all your life as well as in your recent meeting probably have a lot more to do with individual temperaments, upbringing, and specific religious influences which other "southern Christians" would find to be foreign. I do not care
  18. Hmmm. Rod...disappointed... #1) 100 what? Meters? What's that? I thought you were American. #2) Hussein Bolt does a hundred meters in around 11 seconds. 15 minutes! 15 minutes? You are proud of doing a hundred meters in 15 minutes. Lets try 25 seconds at our ages. I would be impressed at that. I think I would need at least twice as much time as Mr. Bolt. #3) Glad for your non side effects. --------- #4) Mom supposedly has this Covid. She lives about a mile (not that 60% kilometer Rod) away. I have power of attorney. Meeting with the doctor tomorrow. They ordinarily don
  19. Hi InCognitus. Thank you for your reply, though I do not know if understand it. I remember Fanny Crosby hymns from my Protestant days. From what I know of the author, I doubt she believed that the Little Stream could become a child of God, or inherit eternal life. Are you saying that this Protestant song expresses an LDS belief that not only every faithful animal and vegetable, but faithful non-living matter has free will and can become a god in the Celestial Kingdom? Its a question. Please clarify. I am not saying that is what you believe. Unless someone has another direct reply to me, y
  20. My weekend contribution/distraction, according as to your opinion: How about no "agency", (freedom) for plants and non-human earthly animals? One can say that they use their "lesser agency...more intelligently than us humans. Ouch", or as I would say, they have no agency (free will), and behave "intelligently" according to what they are by nature through instinct. They do not reason, nor do they choose. There are no individual decisions among the non-human earthly animals based on morals to which their conscience is obliged. Nor are there meetings of the clans among the the non-human eart
  21. Oh wait. I see you answered my question in the poll question, Incognitus. Do you believe that the members of the 10 tribes know who they are themselves?
  22. Thank you for the quote. Do you believe that if the theory were true, the only way would have to involve them going away somewhere else?
  23. I don't see how anyone living today could be identified as a member of the ten lost tribes. I am surprised so many here hold to some form of belief in a gathering. Is there something about it in Latter-day Revelation? I will admit that if the theory were true, the only way would have to involve them going away somewhere else. I misunderstood the poll question and want to change it to say that I don't believe any of these stories. I was afraid that it meant there never was such a thing as the ten tribes. I knew it happened after the death of Solomon when there was a political and religious
  24. The poster was well-informed about papal infallibility. But the infallibility of the Church's teaching goes well beyond that. As I explained in another post, the grandkids are here and I am having a respite, but they are coming soon...and I still haven't got the budget done! Briefly, ecumenical council, consensus of the Fathers, along with the liturgical prayers of the Church, are other ways a Catholic should know infallible teachings, whether a pope has defined them or not. I am going to miss these little ones so much. My little Beatrice is just learning to talk and in her softly li
  25. I don't know that there could be a "usual attitude" toward "apostates". You probably know that it is a word that means fallen away. Several generations ago, it would have been different, and more like how you picture the Catholic Church. What I believe today is that many Catholics in authority are apostate. I used to be sure they retained their priestly authority. But it has recently come to my attention that there has been more serious monkeying around with the Sacraments than I had previously realized. At least Mormons say the right words for baptism. For the very same reason th
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