Why so many new temples, up 70 under pres nelson 3.5 year tenure when membership flat. Why?

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I take it that was quite a while after its  dedication. 

Double-digit years.

[Kenngo1969]

Man, this temple-building orgy is obscene!    And if somebody wants to, s/he can have temple p*rn plastered all over one's living space!  It's horrible, I tell ya!  Truly horrible!   (And I'd bet, if I were to bet anything besides M&M's playing low stakes poker, that there will be nary a word about these obvious downsides from the "Brethern" this coming General Conference!)

P.S.:  Hey!  Come to think of it, this sounds like something that S. Heber Young would write!  @Bernard Gui???

P.P.S.:  I appreciate your genuine, deeply-felt, heartfelt concern, Dair Finkum, but I think President Nelson's trying to get us ready for the Millennium ... we'll need more temples then whether there are 10 million faithful members or 100 million.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[Peacefully]

6 hours ago, Jamie said:

How about Arlington too, the in-between town.  And Waco.  I spent most of my earlier years in Waco.

I lived in Arlington for 30 yrs. The more temples in Texas, the better:)

[california boy]

2 hours ago, mgy401 said:

I’m not saying the Church is doing it; I’m responding to @california boy’s idea (as I understood it) that rather than building in Oslo, perhaps the Church should simply fly Norwegian would-be temple patrons to the locations of existing temples elsewhere in Europe.

I am not really suggesting that.  I am only pointing out that it isn't necessarily a huge financial burden if one has no temple near them.

[secondclasscitizen]

8 hours ago, rongo said:

It is all relative. After the initial bump after a dedication, attendance usually goes way down for most temples (intermountain west may have some exceptions to this, but it holds true for almost all others). We were told when the Gilbert temple was built that often those closest to temples who have to expend the least effort to go attend the least over time. I know that Snowflake provided a disproportionate number of temple workers in Mesa for decades, which was directly why they got their own (in the "reward temple" days). That is quite a distance from Mesa. 

I think there are psychological analogues to this: when there is a high cost, things are appreciated more. I think that we see (or are starting to see) that when you "take the temple to the people" and put small ones everywhere, intensity drops. 

Seemingly counterintuitve: making it "easier" to attend the temple can have the effect of lessening commitment and interest. 

Yea after the gilbert one was built, Mesa attendance fell off by way over fifty percent ish. They had sessions where only a couple people or even no one showed up. Source is family members who are temple workers. I have three temples within 50 miles of me and one of them is maybe 10 min away. I never go except to sealings I’m invited to. 

[secondclasscitizen]

8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Do you have figures to back up your assertion that attendance goes way down for “almost all” temples outside the Intermountain West after the dedication? 

My wife goes to the gilbert one with friends and says the sessions have never been full when she has been there. I have been to one and it was a Saturday and maybe half full. People are not going much anymore. It makes for a very boring date night.

[secondclasscitizen]

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Do you think that the church could work on the older church ward buildings that look very shabby or dirty? I wonder why the church couldn't put some money into the ward houses that are in need.

It's like the temples are a reward or something. Or are they putting a carrot in front of people?

I do know that there are plenty newer ward houses that are good enough, but until I moved to my neighborhood a couple of years ago, I'd never been in such an old building like this one.

I've never seen dirtier carpets and older shabby furniture like I have in this one. I don't mean to be a snob. Maybe I shouldn't have cleaned the church and seen it up close while vacuuming, stains galore.

I feel bad for the visitors that may visit and I have to wonder if they are probably surprised it's an LDS ward building. 

But maybe since covid they've updated, I guess I need to go and see. 

Our old building was always filthy and smelled. The one we are in now is generally clean except the restrooms always stink to high heaven... well the men’s does. Whoever cleans it does a decent job .. except for the restrooms 

[Hamba Tuhan]

17 hours ago, rongo said:

No, it really doesn't, especially since they are many years from completion, some decades (if ever).

It's pretty easy to check on this. If one looks at the list of temples announced but not yet under construction, currently the biggest gap is exactly four years (a single temple: Nairobi), followed by four that were announced three years ago (Managua, Cagayan de Oro, Russia, and Lagos), followed by three that were announced in 2019 (Budapest, Freetown, and Bacolod).

That means that of all the temples that were announced in 2017, 2018, and 2019, all but eight of them are currently being built. Everything else awaiting construction was announced either last year or last month. That's not bad, in my opinion, and it's definitely not 'decades' for any of them.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

My wife goes to the gilbert one with friends and says the sessions have never been full when she has been there. I have been to one and it was a Saturday and maybe half full. People are not going much anymore. It makes for a very boring date night.

More anecdotal stuff. I was asking for figures to bear out the assertion that attendance went way down after the dedication of “almost all” temples outside the Intermountain West. And Arizona, by the way, is not outside the Intermountain West. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Robert F. Smith]

11 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I guess it depends on how you define a reasonable distance. We used to drive 70 miles each way every Tuesday to attend the temple. It didn't seem unreasonable to me. I guess I don't see a 30-minute drive as unreasonable.

I guess you weren't trying to get to the L.A. Temple during rush hour. 

[The Nehor]

We have plotted the earth’s ley lines and once we have temples situated on all the major nexuses we can perform a ritual and open a portal to the Things that dwell in the Void and unleash them on the world. It is part of our world domination/annihilation plan.

[secondclasscitizen]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

More anecdotal stuff. I was asked for figures to bear out the assertion that attendance went way down after the dedication of “almost all” temples outside the Intermountain West. And Arizona, by the way, is not outside the Intermountain West. 

The prophet will declare the church to be false before they publish temple attendance numbers which are progressively lower. You will never get that information without it being a leak. 

[Chum]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

open a portal to the Things that dwell in the Void and unleash them on the world.

Upon which we learn The Void is populated with mid-level managers, CPAs and weather geeks.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Chum

[juliann]

7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I guess you weren't trying to get to the L.A. Temple during rush hour. 

I went once a month until the hour drive expanded to two hours. On Saturday. 

[Fair Dinkum]

21 hours ago, Calm said:

I know a couple of Norwegian Saints. One stayed with me when she visited the US. Empty most of the time still allows for my friends and their friends and family to have access. Have other friends in Austria. The European Saints are just as hungry, if not more so, to go to the temple. It can be a real struggle at times when weddings are in other countries, for examples. I think it well worthwhile to have a temple easily accessible to all Saints, the happiness it will bring makes it ‘cost effective’ to me even if empty much of the time. At the very least, far flung members when they have a temple to anchor their smaller communities...they will know they are highly valued by our leaders and are as important to our faith community as anyone who has to wait for an hour or more in the temple because it is packed. 

Good point

[gopher]

21 hours ago, Calm said:

I know a couple of Norwegian Saints. One stayed with me when she visited the US. Empty most of the time still allows for my friends and their friends and family to have access. Have other friends in Austria. The European Saints are just as hungry, if not more so, to go to the temple. It can be a real struggle at times when weddings are in other countries, for examples. I think it well worthwhile to have a temple easily accessible to all Saints, the happiness it will bring makes it ‘cost effective’ to me even if empty much of the time. At the very least, far flung members when they have a temple to anchor their smaller communities...they will know they are highly valued by our leaders and are as important to our faith community as anyone who has to wait for an hour or more in the temple because it is packed. 

I've heard Norwegians claim there would be close to 50,000 members in Norway today if so many didn't come to the U.S. after WWII.  Maybe having a temple in Oslo will help bring some members back home.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, juliann said:

I went once a month until the hour drive expanded to two hours. On Saturday. 

I enjoyed living in L.A. for awhile, when my job was 10 minutes away by bicycle.  When I had to drive 90 minutes each way to and from work it became drudgery.

[mfbukowski]

23 hours ago, Amulek said:

And if they're empty most of the time, so much the better. I would love to just kick it in the temple, quietly, all day every day.

Hmmmm.

I came home exhausted after 7 hours of "kicking it" in the temple yesterday.

There's more work happening there than meets the eye!

But basking in the spirit for 7 hours without a break surely makes up for it. 😁

 

[mfbukowski]

10 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I guess you weren't trying to get to the L.A. Temple during rush hour. 

That's just the frosting on the cake.

It takes me an hour one way to make the 20 mile drive and 25 minutes the other way.  Fun fun fun.

You never know!   

 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

The prophet will declare the church to be false before they publish temple attendance numbers which are progressively lower. You will never get that information without it being a leak. 

So we’re supposed to embrace unsubstantiated guesses and isolated anecdote because you can’t get Church leaders to publish the statistics you want? This goes against my instincts and training in critical thinking. 

[pogi]

On 5/21/2021 at 1:34 PM, rongo said:

He didn't define what "safe limits" is, but because he tied it to "local government regulations," it's reasonable to think that what "local government regulations" determine are "safe limits" would be the determinant. 

Clearly your interpretation is wrong, or the temples would be open - or, you can choose to believe that our prophet is a liar.  I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt.  I choose to believe that he truly feels the urgency he speaks of and is heart broken by the hiatus caused by the pandemic.  

The way I read it, there are 2 criteria that need to be met:

1) "When local government regulations allow it."

2) "When the incidence of COVID-19 in your area is within safe limits."

Clearly, Dr Nelson assesses the COVID-19 situation differently than you do...thank goodness!!!

Edited May 22, 2021 by pogi

[sheilauk]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

We have plotted the earth’s ley lines and once we have temples situated on all the major nexuses we can perform a ritual and open a portal to the Things that dwell in the Void and unleash them on the world. It is part of our world domination/annihilation plan.

I'm sure it's wrong of me,  but a part of me kinda wishes this were true! 😁

6 hours ago, Chum said:

Upon which we learn The Void is populated with mid-level managers, CPAs and weather geeks.

Yep, that's probably what would happen! ☺

[secondclasscitizen]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So we’re supposed to embrace unsubstantiated guesses and isolated anecdote because you can’t get Church leaders to publish the statistics you want? This goes against my instincts and training in critical thinking. 

You need to go back and read my posts. You asked for figures not me. I don’t care so I may speculate if I feel like it. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by secondclasscitizen

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

You need to go back and read my posts. You asked for figures not me. I don’t care so I may speculate if I feel like it. 

Actually it was Rongo whom I posed the question to. He admitted he had no figures and that he had only been expressing his opinion. 
 

That’s when you chimed in. I merely pointed out that your comment was not responsive to the question you purported to answer, and I explained why. 
 

You’re entitled to speculate, yes, as I am entitled to evaluate your speculation. Anecdotal information is fine as far as it goes — which is not very far at all in terms of probative value. Anyone trying to make a persuasive case needs to bear that in mind. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

You need to go back and read my posts. You asked for figures not me. I don’t care so I may speculate if I feel like it. 

Oh, but you forgot to say "Mother, may I?"