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secondclasscitizen

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Everything posted by secondclasscitizen

  1. Yea but it is 100% all-in Mormonism so stepping outside that or “kicking against the pricks “ makes the non compliant one have an awful experience. Just this illustration alone the family / church attitude can be backed up by tons of material spoken by our prophets. One guy is mark e Peterson. Go look up racist quotes attributed to him. He was a total racist. I grew up with that dude visiting our home and eating dinner with us. The current 15 were raised like this so it isn’t hard to imagine what they believe.
  2. There is some merit to this. One also has to consider what the church teaches is bad/good, right/wrong etc about all kinds of things. When one is doing or believes something contrary to these teachings it is easy to assume the potential judgement being passed on them by faithful members. If the belief is that if someone does such and such they are bad… well I’m bad and that’s what they think about me. perfect example is this. Growing up I was taught to never date or marry outside your own race. It was against our religion, the prophet said so and it mixes the race of your descendants. You are white for a reason. That said, when I asked a girl out in high school who was not white I knew I could never take her to meet my parents if we became a thing. I was disobeying Spencer w kimball the prophet. we go out and lo and behold we become an item and my mother finds out. Dimed out by my sister of course and holy hell broke out at second class’ house. “ How dare you date a “bleep” behind our backs! You are forbidden to see her again! Of course we kept dating, went to prom etc. parents hated that. She wasn’t even Mormon but that just made it even worse since she was also a “bleep.” so when one of my kids is getting sealed in the temple twenty plus years later to someone who isn’t white…, yea it is not in my head what they are thinking. They taught me they hated that and no good Mormon does that. Def not just in my head. Never told my kids but my wife knows. My kids grew up military brat. They don’t have a problem with blacks and other races. Prob just in my head but I know what they believe and they believe this is a horrible thing. Good Mormons though… ask anyone around here lol
  3. Too bad the guy lost his newspaper because the prophet lied about the truthfulness of the allegations made in the paper.
  4. I believe you. So we don’t know what he did? I don’t really care because again the question was if any served in the military. For the record I’m not looking out for his action to have benefitted me in any way for them to be valid. I don’t know why you seem to believe I’m worried about how his work may or may not have benefitted me. Has not even crossed my mind. I’m sure he does as well. That said you will never hear him at the pulpit telling the young men of the church there is any other honorable option to a mission. The church has said as much. He is excused.
  5. You said “what if.” Are you guessing what he did or do you have done kind of documentation stating what the purpose was? if you are so sure what he did why pose your response as a random “what if?” Analogy. Just spit it out. I care about what he did in the military about as much as he cares about what I did. Probably zero. The point is he served in the military and didn’t go on a mission. Someone else in the discussion brought up the fact the top three didn’t serve missions after I asked how many GAs didn’t serve missions.
  6. I guess that’s what I get for sourcing his Wikipedia page. So what did he do touring Korea in the army? His page doesn’t say what he did. I’m not saying he didn’t do anything I’m just passing along what his page says. Additionally you can add in your wierd looney toon third grade antics all you want but making up silly commentary to pass it off as my attitude towards his service when I never said those things is a dishonest representation of what I wrote. You go be you though. So what did he do while touring Korea? And no I don’t mean a vacation it is what he was described as doing. The military sends officers to war zones all the time to do tours and come back and write manuals and such. Probably some heart stuff but again the page doesn’t say and the last thing I’m gonna do is buy a book. I’m betting you have it and can share. Thathathatsa … that’s all folks!?
  7. Of course Texas.. merica ! Man it seemed like the army was packed with texans. Pretty patriotic state. You guys don’t have elk so I’ll pass.
  8. I have no idea why your kids have chosen to become in active or leave the church so I can’t have an opinion on that. I can say though that if you make their church activity a condition of your love for them or use it as a reason to miss treat or belittle them you will just push them away. I have no idea if this is how you roll I am just making a suggestion. I can say in my personal circumstance that my church leaders at the time were probably some of the Most verbally abusive and dismissive people I’ve ever been around in my entire life. It was either you follow the prophet and all of the ChurchTeachings or you were just a flat out piece of crap. Let’s put it this way some of my family still call non-Mormons heathens because they’re not considered to be even decent people if you’re not a Mormon. To this day I still have no knowledge if my parents even have any nonmember friends. That said me knowing how they feel about other people who were all in Mormons vs the not so good Mormons I knew how they felt about me. Despite my being married in the temple, kids on missions, kids in college kids married in the temple, I was still a failure because I didn’t go on a mission and I have been flat out told that to my face. They take the program way too seriously and my not going on a mission has been a permanent humiliation to them. Many of their friends and family are the same way. Not all- many. Well I’m probably not much help because I don’t know your personal situation all I can tell you is this. One day you’ll be of age and need to be taken care of. Your treatment of your kids may ultimately determine how much help you get from them. Perhaps your good kids who are solid Mormons may decide to go on a senior mission for a year or two and leave you in the hands of your apostate children. You may be surprised who steps up to help in the end. Trust me. Be Christ like. Jesus doesn’t care if someone is Mormon if they are a self righteous prick as some here would describe them.
  9. I must be missing something. Please explain why you ask that question.
  10. Yep. Pres Nelson was of age entire ww2 and somehow didn’t end up going until Korea when he was a DR. Even then his tour in Korea was to visit some mash units or something. oaks was natl guard. Never went anywhere and married at 20. eyring went in Air Force I think after Korean War. monson served six months in training at end of ww2.
  11. Where did I state local leadership should celebrate military service? My criticism is at leaders who exercise unrighteous dominion over congregation members and harass and berate them for not serving a mission… for any reason.
  12. My old bishop would have called them disgusting selfish people…. If they didn’t go on a mission first. Maybe y’all are lucky where ur at. I seem to always be in mormonazi territory. Lol
  13. Correct. 1974 was when it was all of a sudden a priesthood duty. Those guys had no duty to do it. Now it is a duty therefore pretty much mandatory. The church’s own statement on it I posted earlier says there is only two reasons someone is EXCUSED and military service is nor one of them.
  14. yep I agree same for a mission. All optional service. We are talking missions tho.
  15. Straw man. We are talking missions here. nonone cares about ministering
  16. It wasn’t until 1974 when pres kimball declared it a duty so before that missions were jut a nice gesture. Since then every prophet whether they served a mission or not has admonished young men to do so. Those guys all get a free pass
  17. No need to apologize I knew that would be the response. The culture here is such that missions are constantly pushed. It’s all good that’s part of the hazing to be in the club. I just wasn’t gonna go and stood up for myself. Took the easy way out according to my bishop. service plaque for a military guy?? Never seen one of those before ha. I guess when no one around here goes military why would there be one right!?
  18. yea he isn’t going anywhere. so speaking against the brethren you don’t believe will come with a cost? looks to me it would be a violation of trust for a widely known serious sin. The serious sin being speaking against the brethren. In order for. Bishop to tell the congregation nothing to see here this is all optional is the equivalent of stating serving a mission is not a priesthood duty. The church itself states it is a priesthood duty and offer only two excuses fir not serving a mission and that has been discussed already so er know those two reasons. Sam young was exed and all he did was advocate for a parent to accompany a minor while the bishop asks them if they touch their naughty places. well thanks for at least answering it. I’m of the opinion he would be removed. They would not tolerate that kind of talk esp when they ( the bros) don’t say that and I seriously doubt anyone could get them to publicly.
  19. bishop is not a high calling. It is a first step to see if you will throw your entire family life under the bus for five years because someone told you to. If so then maybe there is a future for a higher calling. Most don’t make the grade. yea I got that by you saying he didn’t go by choice. What’s he doing now? so do you agree or disagree that a bishop or stake pres declaring mission service for young men as being purely optional and they are free to do whatever they want over the pulpit is grounds for a disciplinary council? How odd that this has been asked three times now and no one will answer it.
  20. That’s not my point and I never said anyone who didn’t serve a mission couldn’t be a bishop. My father didn’t serve a mission because of ww2, but wartime service has been regarded as an honorable excuse for conflicts up to and including Vietnam. See our entire first presidency. After that since there is no draft… no excuse If your bishop gets up in front of the congregation and tells the young men the mission is purely optional and they can do whatever they want you and I both know there will be a disciplinary council. He will be released from his calling and disciplined for openly and publicly opposing the brethren. do you disagree? You think a bishop or stake president can do this and expect to get away with it? Ur crazy if u do. Their job is to pressure young men to go on a mission. ESP the bishop. if you think it isn’t a thing, convince him to do it next Sunday.
  21. How many GAs didn’t serve missions who are not draftees or converts?
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