smac97 Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 Here: Quote CATHOLIC HYMNALS SCRUB MORMON ICON by Jules Gomes • ChurchMilitant.com • August 26, 2020 PORTLAND, Ore. (ChurchMilitant.com) - A controversial Catholic publisher has apologized after a fierce backlash over its use of a Mormon image for its hymnbook covers. Oregon Catholic Press (OCP), currently embroiled in an antitrust lawsuit, used on the cover of two of its hymn publications — Today's Missal Music Issue 2021 and Respond & Acclaim — a picture of the "angel" Moroni created by ex-Catholic Mormon artist Jorge Cocco Santángelo. The painting depicts the Mormon angel standing on a golden globe, blowing a trumpet and holding a box or book of gold. Adherents of the Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) place a statue of Moroni blowing a trumpet atop many of their temples as a symbol of the mission of to preach their gospel to the world. Sounding the Alarm Father Robert Badger, a priest of the diocese of Gallup, who converted from Mormonism in 1993, was one of the first to sound the alarm on OCP's portrayal of Moroni. "Speaking as a former Mormon, if this is what the Music Issue is going to look like next year, this offers me an excellent reason to sever our relationships with @OCPmusic," Badger tweeted Monday. "It's not a joke. @OCPMusic really is putting one of the pre-eminent symbols of Mormonism on the Music Issue," he reiterated. Badger's tweets were closely followed by Fr. Cory Sticha, pastor of Sacred Heart in Cascade and St. Ann's in Fort Shaw, who asked OCP to "recall" the hymnbooks "immediately." "This is not compatible with Catholicism in any way and is highly inappropriate for a Catholic publisher to place in Catholic parishes," Sticha tweeted. ... At first, OCP defended its stance. "Great care goes into choosing the art for our missals," it said in a statement, contending that "third-party retail sites have erroneously labeled this image as something other than what it is." "The original artist named this piece 'Angel VIII' and can be viewed on the artist's official website here. This particular piece was chosen for its beauty and, since it was for our beloved Music Issue, for its musical element/theme (the angel playing a horn)." ... Finally, OCP issued a second statement offering a groveling apology: "Upon further reflection, we should have done more research, and we apologize for this embarrassing mistake. We would never knowingly use an image that is not authentically Catholic on our publications." "We are working to finalize a plan to make things right for our customers and to ensure this never happens again," it said. The article goes on. Apparently this created quite a bit of anger. The story is published on "ChurchMilitant.com." Sure sounds like it. I hope our Catholic friends can assuage their anger. Thanks, -Smac 2
Ahab Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 Yeah that's right. Any depiction of any angel blowing on a trumpet is a depiction of Moroni. We have the trademark on that now. Resistance to the idea is absolutely futile. 2
2BizE Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 So, the Mormons aren’t the only ones to give Moroni the boot...
Ahab Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, 2BizE said: So, the Mormons aren’t the only ones to give Moroni the boot... Mormons haven't given Moroni any boot. He is represented as flying through the heavens in his bare feet.
Amulek Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) I think this is one of those things where ignorance is bliss. For those in the know, however, I can see how this would rub them the wrong way. And, honestly, I can kind of understand / relate: I remember sitting in a doctor's waiting room once. He had a very large canvas print on the wall. It was quite nice, and had something of a Renaissance look about it. Curiously, it looked familiar to me. I have never taken a single art or art history class in my life, so I assumed it must have been something famous - though nothing was coming to mind. Finally it came to me: while I had never studied art in any of my schooling, I had managed to take enough classes to earn a philosophy minor back when I was in college. I pulled out my smartphone to look it up and, sure enough, there it was: The Death of Socrates. What seemed like just a nice, old painting originally, suddenly became...a really strange thing to be finding in your doctor's office. I mean, maybe it wouldn't be out of place if your doctor happened to be Jack Kevorkian, but for a regular doctor - yeah, it didn't really fit (and was more than a little bit weird). And once you know something, you can't just un-know it. In fact, I couldn't keep myself from asking about it. When the doctor came in to finish my exam, I asked him if the painting in the waiting room was meant to be ironic or something. He had no idea what I was talking about (apparently, he just thought it was a nice, old looking painting himself back when he bought it). I told him that I thought it was strange to find a wall-sized canvas print of a guy about to commit suicide in a doctor's office, so I was wondering if it was meant to be ironic - or if maybe there was some other reason he chose to display that particular piece (e.g., maybe he was into philosophy too). He was rather off-put by the question, dodged it, and then excused himself saying I was good to go. As soon as he left the room the senior nurse, who had been present the whole time, broke out into the biggest silent laugh I have ever seen in my life. She said that I had absolutely made her year. Apparently that particular doctor had a reputation among the nurses as being kind of a jerk, and she couldn't wait to tell all the other nurses how he had been made to look a fool (he had apparently gone on to all of them about how much money he had spent on that painting, and now he was probably going to have to get rid of it). Oh well, such is life. Anyway, back to the OP, I can see how an informed Catholic might find it...inappropriate to discover a (clearly recognizable) symbol from a heretical faith on the front cover of their hymnal. Everyone else might just think it's a nice picture, but those who know won't be able to un-see the angel Moroni every time they pick it up. It holds a different meaning to them - one which understandably would be distracting to them during their time of worship. Edited August 26, 2020 by Amulek 2
Scott Lloyd Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 2 hours ago, 2BizE said: So, the Mormons aren’t the only ones to give Moroni the boot... Lame. 2
Popular Post 3DOP Posted August 26, 2020 Popular Post Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) On reflection, I tend to think the Moroni/Oregon Catholic Publishing combination makes a reasonably good fit as to what one ought to expect were they to judge this purportedly Catholic book by its cover. I am guessing about my fellow Catholics and LDS here, but I have a hunch that Latter-day Saints would be more at home with what OCP publishes as religious music than would Damien, Spammer, Miserere, and 3DOP. 3DOP Edited August 26, 2020 by 3DOP 5
Popular Post smac97 Posted August 26, 2020 Author Popular Post Posted August 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Ahab said: Yeah that's right. Any depiction of any angel blowing on a trumpet is a depiction of Moroni. We have the trademark on that now. Resistance to the idea is absolutely futile. Well, it's a depiction of A) an angel, B) blowing a trumpet, C) while also holding a golden book and D) standing on a ball, such that it E) looks very similar to the Angel Moroni statue adorning many Latter-day Saint temples, and also F) was created by a Latter-day Saint artist (and former Catholic). If the image had just included characteristics A and B, I don't think there would have been a problem. Characteristics C-F make the depiction decidedly more specific (I am curious if the artist being a former Catholic is part of the problem). Thanks, -Smac 5
JAHS Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 4 hours ago, smac97 said: Here: The article goes on. Apparently this created quite a bit of anger. The story is published on "ChurchMilitant.com." Sure sounds like it. I hope our Catholic friends can assuage their anger. Thanks, -Smac Actually this is the statue to compare it to. Pretty much identical.
pogi Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 3 hours ago, 2BizE said: So, the Mormons aren’t the only ones to give Moroni the boot... Nature started it. Poor Moroni has had it rough lately. 2
pogi Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 Can I just say, I love this painting! How appropriate that it was painted by a "Sanangelo" (Saint angel)! 3
Calm Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) I love his work. Iirc, I saw a number of his paintings in the online art collection. I am thinking of buying this for Christmas...and I don’t generally like religious art in my home except for a very few artists. Don’t mind it in museums and love it for lessons, just seeing it day after day it has to keep me feeling passionate about it to keep it as also feeling sacred. https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/exhibit/museum-art-catalog-topic?lang=eng#mv162 Edited August 26, 2020 by Calm 1
Popular Post bluebell Posted August 26, 2020 Popular Post Posted August 26, 2020 I get why Catholics aren't excited about this and want it changed, but the quote-- "This is not compatible with Catholicism in any way and is highly inappropriate for a Catholic publisher to place in Catholic parishes," Sticha tweeted. Seems a lot overly dramatic. It's an angel on a ball with a trumpet. If Catholics believe in the book of Revelation then this picture is not not compatible with Catholicism in any way, even though it makes sense that they wouldn't want a "mormon" image on their hymnbooks. 5
2BizE Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, pogi said: Nature started it. Poor Moroni has had it rough lately. I’m simply suggesting, as others on this board have noted, that a new trend seems to be fewer temples have Moroni on top.... https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/72788-new-symbol-to-identify-the-church/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1209968043
Storm Rider Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, 3DOP said: On reflection, I tend to think the Moroni/Oregon Catholic Publishing combination makes a reasonably good fit as to what one ought to expect were they to judge this purportedly Catholic book by its cover. I am guessing about my fellow Catholics and LDS here, but I have a hunch that Latter-day Saints would be more at home with what OCP publishes as religious music than would Damien, Spammer, Miserere, and 3DOP. 3DOP Exactly what kind of music do they publish; my curiosity has been piqued? Our hymnal has changed a bit since I was a boy. I miss many of the hymns no longer found in our hymnals and many of the ones that are there I would rather that I never heard them again. We each have our preferences.
Damien the Leper Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 5 hours ago, smac97 said: Here: The article goes on. Apparently this created quite a bit of anger. The story is published on "ChurchMilitant.com." Sure sounds like it. I hope our Catholic friends can assuage their anger. Thanks, -Smac Church Militant is a cesspool of vipers.
InCognitus Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 45 minutes ago, bluebell said: I get why Catholics aren't excited about this and want it changed, but the quote-- "This is not compatible with Catholicism in any way and is highly inappropriate for a Catholic publisher to place in Catholic parishes," Sticha tweeted. Seems a lot overly dramatic. It's an angel on a ball with a trumpet. If Catholics believe in the book of Revelation then this picture is not not compatible with Catholicism in any way, even though it makes sense that they wouldn't want a "mormon" image on their hymnbooks. Calm posted an article from the Catholic News Agency on this story in the Social forum (here), and in the article she posted, the publisher is quoted as saying: Quote “The sounding of the trumpet at the last is a strong traditional Christian image. We chose this angel because he’s holding a trumpet and what looks like the book that will be opened at the last,” said Oregon Catholic Press That's how the publisher viewed it. So the painting can be viewed as a "strong traditional Christian image", which it is even from a Latter-day Saints point of view (but it's not some generic "book" in our case). 4
let’s roll Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: Exactly what kind of music do they publish; my curiosity has been piqued? Our hymnal has changed a bit since I was a boy. I miss many of the hymns no longer found in our hymnals and many of the ones that are there I would rather that I never heard them again. We each have our preferences. I bet you can get the publisher to sell the entire lot of them at a great price. Would make for a great conversation starter as a coffee table book, and like stamps or other items with unique flaws, would likely appreciate in value over time. i may be talking myself into making an offer. 😀 1
JAHS Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 Catholic publisher makes second apology over Mormon cover art Washington, D.C. Newsroom, Aug 25, 2020 / 04:01 pm MT (CNA).- A Catholic publishing company has apologized for its use of a Mormon angel on the cover of two Catholic publications, and is determining how best to move forward. “Dear Partners in Ministry, we have heard your concerns, we admit our error and we apologize for the cover art on the 2021 Respond & Acclaim and Music Issue,” said a statement from Oregon Catholic Press published Aug. 25. Oregon Catholic Press said they were “unaware of the association with the Mormon angel Moroni,” and that “we should have done more research”. “We apologize for this embarrassing mistake,” they said, adding that they would “never knowingly use an image that is not authentically Catholic on our publications.” The image in question, which was published under the titles “Angel VIII” and “Angel Moroni,” was painted in 2017 by Argentinian artist Jorge Cocco Santangelo. Santangelo was raised Catholic but abandoned the faith in 1962 after meeting Mormon missionaries. The image depicts the Angel Moroni standing on a golden sphere, blowing a horn and carrying golden tablets. “We are working to finalize a plan to make things right for our customers and to ensure this never happens again,” said the publishing company, adding that once a plan is determined, they will reach out to those who had ordered the books. Tuesday’s apology is a reversal of a message shared by Oregon Catholic Press on Monday evening, when they claimed that the angel on the cover of the books was simply an unspecified angel. The painting, they said, had been “erroneously labeled” by other websites as being of Angel Moroni. Cocco Santangelo, Oregon Catholic Press said in the original statement, had denied that the angel in the painting was anyone in particular. This claim was called into question when it was revealed that Santangelo had shared an image of the painting on his Instagram page this past April, both titling it as “Angel Moroni” and stating that the entire “Angel” series was mostly centered on Angel Moroni. The LDS Church teaches that Moroni is the angel referenced in Revelation 14:6, and that Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith to reveal the location of the Book of Mormon. 1
Amulek Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 13 hours ago, bluebell said: I get why Catholics aren't excited about this and want it changed, but the quote-- "This is not compatible with Catholicism in any way and is highly inappropriate for a Catholic publisher to place in Catholic parishes," Sticha tweeted. Seems a lot overly dramatic. It's an angel on a ball with a trumpet. If Catholics believe in the book of Revelation then this picture is not not compatible with Catholicism in any way, even though it makes sense that they wouldn't want a "mormon" image on their hymnbooks. If it were just a random picture of an angel with a trumpet and book, that would be one thing. But in this case the artist has identified the angel as being a specific angel: the angel Moroni. If Catholicism is true (which is presumably the position from which those making these statements are coming from) then the angel Moroni is an 'angel of light' (i.e., a devil in disguise). As such, I can understand the feeling that having one of Satan's minions depicted on your hymnal is "not compatible" with your Christian faith; and that finding such a depiction in your place of worship would, in fact, be "highly inappropriate." 2
smac97 Posted August 27, 2020 Author Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, 2BizE said: I’m simply suggesting, as others on this board have noted, that a new trend seems to be fewer temples have Moroni on top.... https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/72788-new-symbol-to-identify-the-church/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1209968043 I'm quite fine with that. This iconography is not doctrinally required. I sometimes get concerned that we elevate things to "doctrine" when they oughtn't be so elevated. Meanwhile, here's an additional news item about this story: Quote A scandalette erupted over the past few days with the release of Oregon Catholic Press’s 2021 hymnal. The scandal is not, for once, of a lyrical or musical nature; the eyebrow-raising issue is the cover art. It portrays a blond, white-robed figure standing on a glob, blowing a trumpet, and carrying a golden book—an angel? The figure is currently labeled on the artist’s website as “Angel VIII (2017).” But it’s more complicated than that, because another angel in the series is called “Angel Moroni (2018)”. Complicating matters further, an Instagram account associated with the artist, Jorge Cocco, identifies the OCP image (and “Most of the angels in this collection”) as “different versions of the angel known as Moroni” (h/t Father Matthew Schneider and Deacon Greg Kandra). OCP, however, initially stated on Facebook that while they understand Mormons seeing it as Moroni, they “saw a beautiful image of an angel, and nothing more.” They took it as an image of the last day, and, “[t]o ensure this didn’t conflict with the original intent of the art,” they “consulted with the artist. He stated, ‘This angel does not have a name, it is left to the interpretation of the viewer.’” It’s hard to know the artist’s intention in this particular case, since he seems to have two different stories about who the angel is. Not surprisingly, OCP at first decided that the artist’s intention (or lack thereof) was irrelevant—a position which is, from an academic viewpoint, arguably correct. What they offered concerned customers was, essentially, reader-response theory. The issue here, I think, is that the Latter-day Saint identification of Moroni as an angel is ultimately derived from the Bible. From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism: Quote Moroni is frequently identified with the Church because portrayals of him blowing a trumpet, handling the gold plates, or instructing Joseph Smith are commonly displayed-for instance on LDS temple spires, on covers of several printings of the Book of Mormon, and in paintings. A depiction of Moroni with a trumpet is the official emblem on grave markers of American Mormon servicemen. Moroni is commonly portrayed with a trumpet because of an interpretation of a prophecy of John the Revelator wherein he saw an angel heralding the return of the everlasting gospel to the earth in the last days: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters {Rev. 14:6-7}. {See also Angel Moroni Statue.} And here: Quote Moroni was the last in a line of prophet-leaders in the Western Hemisphere whose history is recorded in the Book of Mormon. Latter-day Saints believe John the Revelator foretold Moroni's angelic ministry: "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people" (Rev. 14:6). Because Moroni's mission was vital to the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a statue of Moroni as a herald sounding a trumpet has been placed on several Latter-day Saint temples (e.g., Salt Lake City, Los Angeles, and Washington, D.C.). In other words, the iconography of "{an} angel fly{ing} in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth," is not so much specifically and exclusively "Latter-day Saint" or "Catholic" as it is biblical. It's right there in Rev. 14. Nevertheless, the iconography here becomes more Latter-day Saint-ish because the angel in this depiction A) is carrying a "book" (to denote "having the everlasting gospel...," and the Gold Plates / Book of Mormon), B) does not have wings (a generalized feature in popular Catholic/Protestant iconography, but pretty much universally excluded in Latter-day Saint iconography), and C) was created by a Latter-day Saint artist (who was clearly drawing on the Latter-day Saint connection of Moroni to the angel in Rev. 14). Not all depictions of Moroni-as-the-angel-referenced-in-Rev.-14 show him with the book/plates. In fact, including the plates in iconography is quite the exception, not the rule. Arguably the most famous depiction of Moroni, the statue adorning the Salt Lake Temple, doesn't have it: In fact, the depiction of Moroni holding the plates was not apparently introduced to temple iconography until . . . 1951, with the L.A. Temple: Quote ... This is also the first of two statues to be created for use on top of temples where the statue is holding Gold Plates in the crook of his left arm, the first of only two statue models in use to do so. The inclusion of plates as part of the iconography is the exception, not the rule. From the Church's website: Quote Only five temples feature an angel Moroni statue holding the gold plates. They are the Los Angeles California Temple, Washington D.C. Temple, Seattle Washington Temple, Jordan River Utah Temple, and Mexico City Mexico Temple. The plates are included in the Hill Cumorah statue: Thanks, -Smac Edited August 27, 2020 by smac97 2
smac97 Posted August 27, 2020 Author Posted August 27, 2020 I also wanted to include a few additional excerpts from the link in my previous post: Quote With all due respect to our Mormon friends and allies, from the Catholic perspective, there is a real and nontrivial chance that “the angel known as Moroni,” if such a being was real, was a bad actor. And that is why, whatever reader-response theory might say, if “Angel VIII” really did represent Moroni in the mind of the artist when he created the image, a Catholic would be uncomfortable staring down at “Angel VIII” five times a Sunday morning until the end of 2021. I can appreciate this perspective. Thanks, -Smac 2
smac97 Posted August 27, 2020 Author Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, 2BizE said: I’m simply suggesting, as others on this board have noted, that a new trend seems to be fewer temples have Moroni on top.... https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/72788-new-symbol-to-identify-the-church/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1209968043 From the Church's website (emphases added) : Quote There are 34 temples that do not have an angel Moroni statue. They are the St. George Utah Temple, Logan Utah Temple, Manti Utah Temple, Laie Hawaii Temple, Cardston Alberta Temple, Mesa Arizona Temple, Hamilton New Zealand Temple, Oakland California Temple, Hong Kong China Temple, Paris France Temple, Kinshasa Democratic Republic of the Congo Temple, Port-au-Prince Haiti Temple, Yigo Guam Temple, Praia Cabo Verde Temple, San Juan Puerto Rico Temple, Bangkok Thailand Temple, Auckland New Zealand Temple, Alabang Philippines Temple, Lima Peru Los Olivos Temple, Orem Utah Temple, San Pedro Sula Honduras Temple, Brasília Brazil Temple, Taylorsville Utah Temple, Tooele Valley Utah Temple, Moses Lake Washington Temple, Phnom Penh Cambodia Temple, McAllen Texas Temple, Bengaluru India Temple, Bentonville Arkansas Temple, Cobán Guatemala Temple, Okinawa Japan Temple, Mendoza Argentina Temple, Neiafu Tonga Temple and Pago Pago American Samoa Temple. Several temples have received angels after their dedications. The first was the Idaho Falls Idaho Temple, which had an angel Moroni statue added in 1983, almost 40 years after its dedication, at the request of the president and other officials of the temple. As a part of renovation projects in the 2000s, the Church added angel Moroni statues to several of the originally statueless temples including the Freiberg Germany Temple (2001), Ogden Utah Temple (2002), Provo Utah Temple (2003), São Paulo Brazil Temple (2003), Tokyo Japan Temple (2004), Bern Switzerland Temple (2005), and London England Temple (2008). The Hong Kong China Temple (1996) is the only temple to have had an angel Moroni statue permanently removed from its design as part of a renovation (2022). Both the Sydney Australia Temple and Boston Massachusetts Temple were dedicated without angel Moroni statues due to pending litigation. In both cases, rulings allowed for the angels to be installed about a year after their respective dedications. The Church added a spire and angel Moroni statue to the Manhattan New York Temple four months after its dedication. These features were not part of the original design because the temple was built within an existing Church-owned building that was not designed as a temple. The Monticello Utah Temple is the only temple to have had a white angel Moroni. White enamel-covered fiberglass statues were to decorate the "smaller and remote-area" temples as conceived by President Gordon B. Hinckley, but the Monticello statue proved too difficult to see, especially in cloudy weather. It was replaced about a year later by a larger, traditional gold-leafed statue, which has remained the standard. The Anchorage Alaska Temple, Bismarck North Dakota Temple, Columbus Ohio Temple, Kona Hawaii Temple, and Caracas Venezuela Temple feature angel Moroni statues holding a scroll—a design originally created for use on the "smaller and remote-area" temples as conceived by President Gordon B. Hinckley. Only five temples feature an angel Moroni statue holding the gold plates. They are the Los Angeles California Temple, Washington D.C. Temple, Seattle Washington Temple, Jordan River Utah Temple, and Mexico City Mexico Temple. The Atlanta Georgia Temple {dedicated in 1983} was originally designed with no spire or angel Moroni, but the Church revised its plans, and nearly every temple built since featured an angel Moroni statue until 2020. In the early 1930s, a replica of the Salt Lake Temple angel Moroni was fashioned by Torleif Knaphus for the Washington D.C. Chapel. The statue was removed in 1976 when the chapel was sold (currently owned by the Unification Church) and is now on display in the Museum of Church History and Art. It is owned by the LDS Motion Picture Studio and was used in the filming of Mountain of the Lord. Castings of this statue have since been made and installed atop the Atlanta Georgia Temple (since replaced), Idaho Falls Idaho Temple, and Boston Massachusetts Temple. The Nauvoo Illinois Temple, The Hague Netherlands Temple, and Boston Massachusetts Temple participated in a tri-temple setting of the angel Moroni on the 178th anniversary of the day that Moroni first appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith. The Nauvoo Temple was the first to have an angel (though not identified as Moroni), and it is the only temple to have a horizontal or flying angel (which functioned as a weathervane). The angel was inspired by Revelations 14:6, which says, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people." The first temple to have a standing angel Moroni was the Salt Lake Temple. Not all temples have an east-facing angel Moroni statue. In fact, the angels on several temples face nearly due west because of lot orientation or the placement of spires. The trumpets of the angel Moroni statues on the Santiago Chile Temple, Tokyo Japan Temple, Apia Samoa Temple, and Salt Lake Temple have been lofted out of Moroni's grasp during earthquakes. Due to its height and conductivity, it is not unheard of for an angel Moroni statue to be struck by lightning during a thunderstorm just like a lightning rod. I'm not sure your comment ("a new trend seems to be fewer temples have Moroni on top...") is correct. A large majority of the temples have them, including all temples built subsequent to the Atlanta Georgia temple (until 2020, it seems). Per the Church's website, here are the temples which have been dedicated subsequent to the Atlanta temple (and hence, per item #9 above, have Angel Moroni statues) : Nuku'alofa Tonga Temple Santiago Chile Temple Papeete Tahiti Temple Mexico City Mexico Temple Boise Idaho Temple Sydney Australia Temple Manila Philippines Temple Dallas Texas Temple Taipei Taiwan Temple Guatemala City Guatemala Temple Freiberg Germany Temple Stockholm Sweden Temple Chicago Illinois Temple Johannesburg South Africa Temple Seoul Korea Temple Lima Peru Temple Buenos Aires Argentina Temple Denver Colorado Temple Frankfurt Germany Temple Portland Oregon Temple Las Vegas Nevada Temple Toronto Ontario Temple San Diego California Temple Orlando Florida Temple Bountiful Utah Temple Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple St. Louis Missouri Temple Vernal Utah Temple Preston England Temple Monticello Utah Temple Anchorage Alaska Temple Colonia Juárez Chihuahua Mexico Temple Madrid Spain Temple Bogotá Colombia Temple Guayaquil Ecuador Temple Spokane Washington Temple Bismarck North Dakota Temple Columbia South Carolina Temple Detroit Michigan Temple Halifax Nova Scotia Temple Regina Saskatchewan Temple Billings Montana Temple Edmonton Alberta Temple Raleigh North Carolina Temple St. Paul Minnesota Temple Kona Hawaii Temple Ciudad Juárez Mexico Temple Hermosillo Sonora Mexico Temple Albuquerque New Mexico Temple Oaxaca Mexico Temple Tuxtla Gutiérrez Mexico Temple Louisville Kentucky Temple Palmyra New York Temple Fresno California Temple Medford Oregon Temple Memphis Tennessee Temple Reno Nevada Temple Cochabamba Bolivia Temple Tampico Mexico Temple Nashville Tennessee Temple Villahermosa Mexico Temple Montreal Quebec Temple San José Costa Rica Temple Fukuoka Japan Temple Adelaide Australia Temple Melbourne Australia Temple Suva Fiji Temple Mérida Mexico Temple Veracruz Mexico Temple Baton Rouge Louisiana Temple Oklahoma City Oklahoma Temple Caracas Venezuela Temple Houston Texas Temple Birmingham Alabama Temple Santo Domingo Dominican Republic Temple Boston Massachusetts Temple Recife Brazil Temple Porto Alegre Brazil Temple Montevideo Uruguay Temple Winter Quarters Nebraska Temple Guadalajara Mexico Temple Perth Australia Temple Columbia River Washington Temple Snowflake Arizona Temple Lubbock Texas Temple Monterrey Mexico Temple Campinas Brazil Temple Asunción Paraguay Temple Nauvoo Illinois Temple The Hague Netherlands Temple Brisbane Australia Temple Redlands California Temple Accra Ghana Temple Copenhagen Denmark Temple Manhattan New York Temple San Antonio Texas Temple Aba Nigeria Temple Newport Beach California Temple Sacramento California Temple Helsinki Finland Temple Rexburg Idaho Temple Curitiba Brazil Temple Panama City Panama Temple Twin Falls Idaho Temple Draper Utah Temple Oquirrh Mountain Utah Temple Vancouver British Columbia Temple The Gila Valley Arizona Temple Cebu City Philippines Temple Kyiv Ukraine Temple San Salvador El Salvador Temple Quetzaltenango Guatemala Temple Kansas City Missouri Temple Manaus Brazil Temple Brigham City Utah Temple Calgary Alberta Temple Tegucigalpa Honduras Temple Gilbert Arizona Temple Fort Lauderdale Florida Temple Phoenix Arizona Temple Córdoba Argentina Temple Payson Utah Temple Trujillo Peru Temple Indianapolis Indiana Temple Tijuana Mexico Temple Provo City Center Temple Sapporo Japan Temple Philadelphia Pennsylvania Temple Fort Collins Colorado Temple Star Valley Wyoming Temple Hartford Connecticut Temple Paris France Temple Tucson Arizona Temple Meridian Idaho Temple Cedar City Utah Temple Concepción Chile Temple Barranquilla Colombia Temple Rome Italy Temple Kinshasa Democratic Republic of the Congo Temple Fortaleza Brazil Temple Port-Au-Prince Haiti Temple Lisbon Portugal Temple Arequipa Peru Temple Durban South Africa Temple Here are the temples currently under construction or renovation (same link as above) : Columbus Ohio Temple Hamilton New Zealand Temple (never had an Angel Moroni, under renovation) Hong Kong China Temple (per item #3 above, its Angel Moroni is being permanently removed as part of renovations). Mesa Arizona Temple (never had an Angel Moroni, under renovation) Salt Lake Temple St. George Utah Temple (never had an Angel Moroni, under renovation) Tokyo Japan Temple Washington D.C. Temple Abidjan Ivory Coast Temple Alabang Philippines Temple Auckland New Zealand Temple (never had an Angel Moroni, under renovation) Bangkok Thailand Temple Belém Brazil Temple Feather River California Temple Layton Utah Temple Lima Peru Los Olivos Temple (will not have an Angel Moroni) Pocatello Idaho Temple Praia Cape Verde Temple (will not have an Angel Moroni) Puebla Mexico Temple Quito Ecuador Temple Richmond Virginia Temple Rio de Janeiro Brazil Temple San Juan Puerto Rico Temple (will not have an Angel Moroni) Saratoga Springs Utah Temple Urdaneta Philippines Temple Winnipeg Manitoba Temple Yigo Guam Temple (will not have an Angel Moroni) In other words, of these 27 temples, only nine will lack the Angel Moroni. And of those nine, only four are new (the other five being under renovation). Let's take a look at the four "under construction temples" that will not have an Angel Moroni: First, the Lima Peru Los Olivos Temple: A spire-with-Moroni-on-top doesn't fit the architecture, like the Mesa and Lai'e temples: So the omission of Moroni is not really surprising here. Second, the Praia Cabo Verde Temple: Third, the San Juan Puerto Rico Temple: Fourth and finally, the Yigo Guam Temple: These last three seem to be based on the same design, which does not incorporate a spire-with-Moroni-on-top feature. So of the 171 temples listed above, A) the vast majority include the Angel Moroni, B) most of those which do not include a Moroni statue have been around for a long time, and as such are not indicative of a "trend" toward omitting Moroni; C) of the temples that were constructed without an Angel Moroni statue, eight have the statue added in later years, and only one has had the statue removed (Hong Kong); D) of the "under construction" temples, a substantial majority of them have the Angel Moroni; and E) of the few "under construction" temples that do not have the statue (all four of them), the omission seems more for aestetic/architectural reasons than anything else. Four out of 171 temples does not seem to be much of a "trend." -Smac Edited August 27, 2020 by smac97 4
bluebell Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Amulek said: If it were just a random picture of an angel with a trumpet and book, that would be one thing. But in this case the artist has identified the angel as being a specific angel: the angel Moroni. If Catholicism is true (which is presumably the position from which those making these statements are coming from) then the angel Moroni is an 'angel of light' (i.e., a devil in disguise). As such, I can understand the feeling that having one of Satan's minions depicted on your hymnal is "not compatible" with your Christian faith; and that finding such a depiction in your place of worship would, in fact, be "highly inappropriate." I do get that, but I'm sure that the Catholic group that choose the symbol didn't do it because it was of the angel Moroni. I get why Catholics would want it changed, I would too in their shoes. I get why they are upset and think it was a bad choice. I would probably feel the same. But I still feel that saying that an angel with a horn on a ball "is not compatible with Catholicism in any way" is a bit dramatic. The angel Moroni isn't compatible with Catholicism, but like I said, I don't think the publishers were all "lets put a picture of Angel Moroni on the cover." They used it because the picture itself is compatible, even if the meaning behind the picture isn't. Meaning is important and it wasn't a good choice to use it, but there are ways that the picture is not "highly inappropriate". Edited August 27, 2020 by bluebell 2
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