General Conference

[Duncan]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

So it's sounding like you voted no on his sustaining.

I voted yes, as I figure with all of the 70's how much input will these men have my life? zero. I thought we don't believe in nepotism, but yet we have a new Elder Holland and Elder Tai's Dad was a GA in the 90's, and he was called when he was 46 in 2019, that's a long time till age 70 so it's a job/calling. Not my circus not my monkeys but when people tell me oh well, callings don't matter, it's all inspired, okay get inspired to call someone else other than your own kid, if you really believe that

[webbles]

Any ideas where they are broadcasting from?

[Bernard Gui]

Tonight’s “General Evening Session”?

Have I  missed something?

Edited April 4, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[ksfisher]

3 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I voted yes, as I figure with all of the 70's how much input will these men have my life? zero. I thought we don't believe in nepotism, but yet we have a new Elder Holland and Elder Tai's Dad was a GA in the 90's, and he was called when he was 46 in 2019, that's a long time till age 70 so it's a job/calling. Not my circus not my monkeys but when people tell me oh well, callings don't matter, it's all inspired, okay get inspired to call someone else other than your own kid, if you really believe that

So if you are in favor of him being called why all the grumbling?

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

 but we don't believe in nepotism, no, no🤔

Sure we do.  There are even gospel principles backing it.  It dates back to the foundation of the Church.

Heck, maybe even the foundation of the world.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

it happens, just not as blatant anymore as it used to be. I know Pres. Hinckley said he was sensitive to nepotism even though two of his kids were general Church Leaders.

Are you saying that it isn't the Lord directing the calls of these general leaders?

You'd have a hard time proving nepotism with his daughter Virginia's call to the YW General Presidency -- she was a counselor, not the president, so presumably the YW president asked for her, not her father. His son, Clark, served as a stake president, as president of the Spain Barcelona Mission and was the first president of the Tijuana Mexico Temple. These latter two callings came after his father's death.  I think the faithful service Pres. Hinckley's children provided shows that it wasn't nepotism, it was ability.

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I would believe someone like Pres. Kimball, Benson who's kids didn't serve on the general level.

I am not sure how to parse this sentence.

[Navidad]

14 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I thought that Pres Nelson was going to do a remote broadcast from the Sacred Grove.  I'd like to see it.  Have never been anywhere near Palmyra or Manchester, NY.  Or will all that be cancelled due to COVID-19?

It is very doubtful that the LDS Church will ever see the FV "spiritualized" away, as you put it.  It's the Mormon ace-in-the-hole, and uniquely fits the biblical concept of God and His Son.    Judeo-Christian religion rejects all that.

I don't understand.   What is it that the Judeo-Christian religion rejects?

[Damien the Leper]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I liked that too. 
 

Are you and I cousins?

Don't threaten the poor woman, @Scott Lloyd.

[Rain]

8 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Are you saying that it isn't the Lord directing the calls of these general leaders?

You'd have a hard time proving nepotism with his daughter Virginia's call to the YW General Presidency -- she was a counselor, not the president, so presumably the YW president asked for her, not her father.

I'm of a mind it was the YW pres who asked for her most likely, but women counselors are chosen by the man leader more often than I used to think. 

8 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

His son, Clark, served as a stake president, as president of the Spain Barcelona Mission and was the first president of the Tijuana Mexico Temple. These latter two callings came after his father's death.  I think the faithful service Pres. Hinckley's children provided shows that it wasn't nepotism, it was ability.

I am not sure how to parse this sentence.

 

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

During the break I found these two videos, so fun!

Thanks for that! Needed a good chuckle!

[RevTestament]

45 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

You’re unwittingly making God out to be a liar.

Don't be silly. No, I'm not. When Yeshua appeared to Paul in a vision and identified Himself as Yeshua whom you persecuteth, He is not lying. That is just silly.

Quote

In Joseph Smith’s canonized account of the vision one of the two Personages points to the other and says, “This is my beloved Son, hear him.” Either the second personage really was the literal Son of the First Personage or the First Personage (or whatever ‘he’ or it  was) was misrepresenting the truth, something that God, by very nature, cannot do.

A question: If Joseph Smith wasn’t actually conversing with the literal Son of God and if it wasn’t the literal Son of God’s Father who introduced his Son, then to whom or what was Joseph conversing?

10 And he (the brother of Jared) answered: Nay; Lord, show thyself unto me.

11 And the Lord said unto him: believest thou the words which I shall speak?

12 And he answered: Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie. (Ether 3) 

Sure the second personage was Yeshua in the vision Joseph was having. It is you who are the one making the Lord a liar, because you do not believe what He says in scripture, and contradict it, because Joseph didn't die. You make Joseph magically exempt from God's word without explanation.

[Stargazer]

5 minutes ago, Rain said:

I'm of a mind it was the YW pres who asked for her most likely, but women counselors are chosen by the man leader more often than I used to think. 

 

Once when I was called to be elders quorum president, the stake president suggested I keep the previous president's counselors. I did. It worked out. I can see that it might occur from time to time, yes. I'm stake clerk now, and when it comes to stake callings I can see how fraught with difficulty it can be sometimes to get people called to this and that. Like the YW president would like Sis A as a counselor, but the stake president is about to call Sis. A to be stake RS president, so he tells her she can't have Sis. A (can't tell her why, either). The YWP isn't sure who else she wants, so the SP suggests Sis. B. YWP doesn't get along well with Sis. B, so declines the offer, and comes back on a later day with a request for Sis. C. Who is currently RS President in Ward X, and Bishop X cries and whines that he can't do without her, so SP turns down YWP's request and suggests Sis. D. And so it goes.  We have small stakes here in the UK.

[Navidad]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

 

This has come up several times before. 
 

It was one of many hymns in the old hymn book that were left out of the 1985 revision because they were not popular and not often sung. The reason it is so well-liked today is that Mack Wilberg popularized it with his BYU choirs and later with the Tabernacle Choir. 
 

We as a people get set in our ways and only want to sing the same 30 or 40 hymns and never bother trying anything new or less familiar. As a result, many good hymns get ignored and eventually dropped. 
 

As for “Come Thou Fount,” I think it’s Wilberg’s arrangement that’s makes it. Intrinsically, it is not all that outstanding. It’s nice, but there are a number of hymns in our hymnal that I like better that never get sung for the reason I noted above. 

And while I’m on my soapbox, I’ll say I don’t think we need a new hymnal. The one we have is quite serviceable enough. If we won’t sing anything in it now that’s unfamiliar, why does anyone think we’ll warm up to any new content in a new hymn book? 

Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing was written (the words) in the mid-1700's. The tune has been in hymn books since the very early 1800's. It is no. 16 on a list of the most popular Christian hymns of all time.

[Robert F. Smith]

15 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I don't understand.   What is it that the Judeo-Christian religion rejects?

As you well know, Phil, Judeo-Christian tradition rejects the existence of two separate Gods, the Father & the Son in a social trinity.  In fact the LDS Church is harshly criticized for heresy in face of that powerful difference.  Indeed, as the foundation of that difference, as you also know, God the Father was once a man.  God the Father is part of space & time and is subject to natural law (over which He has complete mastery).  He is not the First Uncaused Cause, and is not the only being who has Necessary existence.  All of us also have Necessary existence and are coeternal with God the Father.  We are all of the same genus and species as God the Father, extending back into an infinite chain of being and existence.  The selfless purpose of the existence and glory of God the Father is the immortality and eternal life of his children.  That's what He cares about, and that is what He makes all His effort to bring to pass.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Nofear said:

I heard correctly, yes? Brad Wilcox as 2nd Counselor in the General Young Men Presidency?

He is well prepared for it, from my observing his dedication to our stake cub scout efforts.  He is no longer young, but he has a very youthful attitude.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I had to go to radio until I could find the live stream on YouTube.

I thought you lived in Utah. Can’t you get KSL-TV or BYUtv over the air?

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

in other words he was an associate prof who miraculously got his University Pres. Job, how????? How many associate profs. do you know that that happens to? then he somehow became a Mission President? and now a GA? It seems like his dad is pulling strings

Feel free to construct a narrative where it all came from a silver spoon. You know those Seventies. Basically trust fund kids that never grew up. Wish I could get in.

Somehow becomes a Mission President? You act like that is odd. It happens to a lot of people.

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing was written (the words) in the mid-1700's. The tune has been in hymn books since the very early 1800's. It is no. 16 on a list of the most popular Christian hymns of all time.

I said it was a nice hymn. 
 

There are many beautiful hymns in our hymn book. All too many are altogether ignored. 

[Robert F. Smith]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I thought you lived in Utah. Can’t you get KSL-TV or BYUtv over the air?

I gave up television years ago.  Internet only now, but I can get TV on the internet.  Just used live stream on YouTube this time.  Worked extremely well.

[The Nehor]

46 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I voted yes, as I figure with all of the 70's how much input will these men have my life? zero. I thought we don't believe in nepotism, but yet we have a new Elder Holland and Elder Tai's Dad was a GA in the 90's, and he was called when he was 46 in 2019, that's a long time till age 70 so it's a job/calling. Not my circus not my monkeys but when people tell me oh well, callings don't matter, it's all inspired, okay get inspired to call someone else other than your own kid, if you really believe that

And if God tells them to call their child? Inspiration must appear random to be inspiration? How many of the other last names did you recognize? If we had a real problem with nepotism do you know how many times we would be hearing the same names? We are talking about great grandparents with large families. Not every son is getting a call like that and definitely every grandchild.

 President Hinckley allowed his own son to be called as a Seventy. He stated he recused himself from the discussion but allowed that the candidate has a good mother. Possible Elder Holland did the same?

You could be right though. Ancestral lineages of church leadership never go well. I mean, if you read the Book of Mormon you will find....uh-oh, oh no. Never mind.

[Scott Lloyd]

35 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Don't threaten the poor woman, @Scott Lloyd.

boblloyd91 is a woman?

[Scott Lloyd]

53 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Tonight’s “General Evening Session”?

Have I  missed something?

Apparently so. 
 

It was announced several months ago that the evening session at this conference would be in commemoration of the First Vision and they would depart from

the custom of having it be a priesthood or a general women’s session. 
 

You really hadn’t heard that? 

[Navidad]

16 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

As you well know, Phil, Judeo-Christian tradition rejects the existence of two separate Gods, the Father & the Son in a social trinity.  In fact the LDS Church is harshly criticized for heresy in face of that powerful difference.  Indeed, as the foundation of that difference, as you also know, God the Father was once a man.  God the Father is part of space & time and is subject to natural law (over which He has complete mastery).  He is not the First Uncaused Cause, and is not the only being who has Necessary existence.  All of us also have Necessary existence and are coeternal with God the Father.  We are all of the same genus and species as God the Father, extending back into an infinite chain of being and existence.  The selfless purpose of the existence and glory of God the Father is the immortality and eternal life of his children.  That's what He cares about, and that is what He makes all His effort to bring to pass.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

Ok Thank you my friend. I just wasn't sure to what you were referring. Of course trinitarians believe that the three persons of the Godhead can be in three different places at the same time; or can appear in different and separate forms at the same time. I don't see why a trinitarian would discount the first vision as portrayed in The Pearl of Great Price.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I voted yes, as I figure with all of the 70's how much input will these men have my life? zero. I thought we don't believe in nepotism, but yet we have a new Elder Holland and Elder Tai's Dad was a GA in the 90's, and he was called when he was 46 in 2019, that's a long time till age 70 so it's a job/calling. Not my circus not my monkeys but when people tell me oh well, callings don't matter, it's all inspired, okay get inspired to call someone else other than your own kid, if you really believe that

It must really get you spun up that the son of Hyrum Smith, Joseph F. Smith, became a Church President and that Joseph F.’s son, Joseph Fielding Smith, became a Church President. Or that Hyrum’s great-grandson, M. Russell Ballard, is today acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve. Or that President Ezra Taft Benson was the grandson of Ezra T. Benson, an apostle under Brigham Young. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Duncan]

57 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Are you saying that it isn't the Lord directing the calls of these general leaders?

You'd have a hard time proving nepotism with his daughter Virginia's call to the YW General Presidency -- she was a counselor, not the president, so presumably the YW president asked for her, not her father. His son, Clark, served as a stake president, as president of the Spain Barcelona Mission and was the first president of the Tijuana Mexico Temple. These latter two callings came after his father's death.  I think the faithful service Pres. Hinckley's children provided shows that it wasn't nepotism, it was ability.

I am not sure how to parse this sentence.

I was talking about Richard Hinckley, who was a GA. I am not questioning their ability but 16 million members of the Church and it's one family leading it? Pres. Kimball, Benson and Hunter did not have any of their children serve a GAs so if they said we don't believe in nepotism they yeah, their actions fit with what they are saying