General Conference

[Tacenda]

21 minutes ago, bluebell said:

 But why would someone think that being seen by Nephi in a vision means the world is about to end?  I guess I’ve never made that connection. 

If you go back and listen, he mentioned that we were in the vision Nephi had of when the Saviour returns. We in the audience, so in our lifetimes. At least that's how I heard it. And here I was so glad when Pres. Packer spoke out and said not to worry that many of the youth will grow old and be grandparents, or something close to that. Maybe Pres. Nelson will edit the talk or maybe not. 

https://www.ldsliving.com/End-of-the-World-What-President-Packer-Said-About-It/s/79995

“It is a marvelous time to be alive. The world is not going to come to an end anytime soon. You are going to have time to stand, as I stand now, talking about your children and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren. You decide!

“…I bear witness that Jesus is the Christ. He lives. We know Him. He directs this Church. The gospel is true. The plan is a great plan of happiness. May you look forward to a marvelous life in the greatest work that has ever been on the face of this earth.”

Edited April 5, 2020 by Tacenda

[Scott Lloyd]

12 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Not talking about the lyrics, actually. The tune is listed as "Scottish folk tune" in the hymnbook. W W Phelps' lyrics do predate the tune, which was probably first played the late 1800s. Phelps originally suggested the tune "Star in the East", but later the hymn was changed to the current tune, a melody based on "Scotland the Brave," in honor of Phelps's Scottish heritage. The tune is modified to match the syllable count of the text.

I mentioned this because I hear "Scotland the Brave" whenever I hear this hymn. It's perfectly appropriate, actually. We could call the hymn "Joseph the Brave".

But the title “Scotland the Brave” would not have been applied to the tune until those lyrics were written in 1950, right? Or did the tune have that title before? 
 

And “Praise to the Man” was set to the tune before the “Scotland the Brave” lyrics were written, right? That’s why I say “Praise to the Man” predates “Scotland the Brave.”

[bluebell]

35 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

If you go back and listen, he mentioned that we were in the vision Nephi had of when the Saviour returns. We in the audience, so in our lifetimes. At least that's how I heard it. And here I was so glad when Pres. Packer spoke out and said not to worry that many of the youth will grow old and be grandparents, or something close to that. Maybe Pres. Nelson will edit the talk or maybe not. 

https://www.ldsliving.com/End-of-the-World-What-President-Packer-Said-About-It/s/79995

“It is a marvelous time to be alive. The world is not going to come to an end anytime soon. You are going to have time to stand, as I stand now, talking about your children and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren. You decide!

“…I bear witness that Jesus is the Christ. He lives. We know Him. He directs this Church. The gospel is true. The plan is a great plan of happiness. May you look forward to a marvelous life in the greatest work that has ever been on the face of this earth.”

I only heard him say that we were in the vision Nephi had of the last days. I’ll have to re-read it when it comes out. 

[Rain]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Elder Bednar’s temple growth graphic was remarkable. I wonder how the huge gaps in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East will be filled. I was moved by his emotional response to the expansion of temple presence around the world. He usually seems somewhat restrained. 

 

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

I've been saying for years now, Mongolia should get a Temple! i can't even imagine travelling to Hong Kong to go, yuck!

 

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I would say that missionary work to the Muslim countries will have to wait until after Christ returns in glory, since it is apparent that they will be heavily involved in attempting to conquer Israel when Christ sets foot on the Mount of Olives. During that time they will probably be extremely resistant to Christians generally. Without divine intervention there will be no proselyting there.

But God may provide intervention. 

Kind of fun to read these after the last session of conference.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Am I wrong on this, is fulness spelled wrong in the new proclamation? Oh, I see it's been addressed by Scott. Also, did one of the speakers say "colored", referring to people? I could go back and re-listen but thought I'd get it more quickly this way.

And something else that bothered me, that Pres. Nelson mentions that we are the people Nephi saw when he saw the Savoir's return. I am worried about how this might affect in the negative a lot of people, especially the youth. 

You feel worried about it because your son got told it was the end of the world and this bothered him?  

[JAHS]

On the bright side, there's no street protestors !  🙂

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Navidad said:

🤠 - There you go! Light and breezy. Oh, and I still claim that I do represent normative Evangelical Christianity which is a very large Christian (largely Protestant) community, but is not Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or some Protestant groups that are all largely creedal and strictly trinitarian in nature. I have a lot of Latino Pentecostal Christian friends, most of whom are not trinitarian at all. That is why they like the appellation of "Oneness Pentecostals." They are by some accounts the fastest growing faith group in Mexico. The various Baptist groups are a large community and while they are trinitarian, very few, if any are creedal. I can't think of any creedal Baptist groups. 

With your education, I would have thought you understood very well that normative Christianity includes all denominations, because they all buy into the same basic assumptions, nearly all of which come from ancient Egypt.  Using words like creedal or trinitarian as though they don't apply won't wash.  That is merely diversionary, Phil.  Surely you realize the implications.  There is no substantive difference between Catholic or Protestant.  Christianity is not an epiphenomenon, and the normative basis for it all was best defined by Huston Smith many years ago -- being respectful, of course.

[Tacenda]

I know I'm a fringe member, so am I the only one that feels like there wasn't anything too out of the ordinary to warrant that we needed to take our vitamins? Or could have Pres. Nelson stepped back on what was originally planned? Or if anyone could enlighten me on what there was I'd appreciate it, because it's caused some disillusionment. In fact I've not felt this down after watching a conference in I don't know how long. I was so let down with one of my favorite speakers Elder Uchtdorf's talk and how he spoke of members that were leaving the fold. But on the bright side I liked what Elder Cook said about them. And a few other speakers as well. But totally let down after Uchtdorf's talk.

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

On the bright side, there's no street protestors !  🙂

We regularly have street protesters or dissuasion proselyting going on every year at the Arizona Mesa Temple Easter Pageant, but since the Mesa Temple has been closed for renovation, this will be the third Easter when we haven't had a pageant.   So maybe, just maybe, the protesters and dissuasion missionaries will get out of the habit and give up on attending once we get things up and running again?   Somehow I don't think so.  

[pogi]

10 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

We regularly have street protesters or dissuasion proselyting going on every year at the Arizona Mesa Temple Easter Pageant, but since the Mesa Temple has been closed for renovation, this will be the third Easter when we haven't had a pageant.   So maybe, just maybe, the protesters and dissuasion missionaries will get out of the habit and give up on attending once we get things up and running again?   Somehow I don't think so.  

I thought the church put the kibosh on pageants?

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But the title “Scotland the Brave” would not have been applied to the tune until those lyrics were written in 1950, right? Or did the tune have that title before? 

 

Don't know what title the tune had. The tune name of the hymn in the book is "Martyr". That's because it is a variant of the tune of Scotland the Brave.

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

And “Praise to the Man” was set to the tune before the “Scotland the Brave” lyrics were written, right? That’s why I say “Praise to the Man” predates “Scotland the Brave.”

Whatever you want, Scott. I was just saying that Praise to the Man makes me think of Scotland the Brave, regardless of which came first. Every time. Since I like the tune, that is not a problem.

"Scotland the Brave" by the Isle of Cumbrae Pipe Band as they march out of Braemar, Scotland. 5 minutes of glorious piping!!

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I would say that missionary work to the Muslim countries will have to wait until after Christ returns in glory ... Without divine intervention there will be no proselyting there.

49.2 per cent of all Muslims on this planet currently live in the five nations with the largest Muslim populations: Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Ignoring the temporary interruption of the pandemic, we currently have full-time missionaries serving in four of these five nations -- all but Bangladesh -- with a combined total of 40 per cent of the world's Muslims. Though missionaries in Indonesia and Pakistan face some restrictions, there is no law that prevents conversion in either nation. The district (now stake) that I belonged to in Java was almost entirely comprised of former Muslims. This is also the case in Pakistan.

[Stargazer]

32 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I know I'm a fringe member, so am I the only one that feels like there wasn't anything too out of the ordinary to warrant that we needed to take our vitamins? Or could have Pres. Nelson stepped back on what was originally planned? Or if anyone could enlighten me on what there was I'd appreciate it, because it's caused some disillusionment. In fact I've not felt this down after watching a conference in I don't know how long. I was so let down with one of my favorite speakers Elder Uchtdorf's talk and how he spoke of members that were leaving the fold. But on the bright side I liked what Elder Cook said about them. And a few other speakers as well. But totally let down after Uchtdorf's talk.

I, for one, wasn't expecting too much out of the ordinary. We're not yet deep enough into any degree of tribulation, yet, so I was perfectly satisfied with how it went. I enjoyed many of the talks (and totally missed the Saturday evening session -- it was 1 am here), so will have to pick that up tomorrow. I can understand disappointment, though. I think that President Nelson might have talked up this conference a little too much, and raised expectations for something rather more dramatic than what happened.  From some of the reactions in this thread, however, some got more than others from it.

I was seriously uplifted by many of the talks and I am looking forward to reviewing them. It's too late at night right now to get into details, and I probably can't remember enough at the moment. If only the Hosanna Shout had been done in the Conference Center is would have been far more dramatic and emotionally affecting. My wife and I enjoyed it nonetheless and felt uplifted by it. I could hardly sing "The Spirit of God" in connection with this, my heart was so full.

This new proclamation was the highlight of the conference.  Because it was brought to the fore in this way, the message of the restoration may very well get out to more people. One hopes that the media will sensationalize it (and if possibly out of impure motives, so what) and thus bring the word to many more.  "Mormon founder claims he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ!" might be one of the headlines. And who knows what will happen?  Some who might otherwise not care might be led to be curious.

[Stargazer]

10 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

49.2 per cent of all Muslims on this planet currently live in the five nations with the largest Muslim populations: Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Ignoring the temporary interruption of the pandemic, we currently have full-time missionaries serving in four of these five nations -- all but Bangladesh -- with a combined total of 40 per cent of the world's Muslims. Though missionaries in Indonesia and Pakistan face some restrictions, there is no law that prevents conversion in either nation. The district (now stake) that I belonged to in Java was almost entirely comprised of former Muslims. This is also the case in Pakistan.

That is good to hear, but I was thinking more in terms of the central Muslim countries surrounding Israel -- mainly the Arab word -- and Turkey and Iran. The ones that make it virtually impossible to proselyte. I don't see that changing anytime soon, and not without a great deal of upheaval. But then, most people thought we'd never be able to send missionaries to Eastern Europe, too, and look what happened there.

And in all that, I was amazed to hear that there would be a temple in Dubai! 

[Rain]

40 minutes ago, pogi said:

I thought the church put the kibosh on pageants?

Most, not all. Mesa is staying, last I heard, as it is about the life of Christ

Edited April 6, 2020 by Rain

[InCognitus]

22 minutes ago, pogi said:

I thought the church put the kibosh on pageants?

Maybe on some of them (like the Hill Cumorah pageant), but the "Mesa Pageant" is still on the list, and says "Coming 2021".  I miss it, and I'm glad it will be back next year.  Part of the redesign of the Mesa Temple visitor center area includes better accommodations for the Easter Pageant.  "The temple site will also be improved to better accommodate the annual Easter pageant — a tradition in the community since 1928 — and make the area more accessible and enjoyable with new paths and walkways."   (See:  https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/major-renovation-mesa-arizona-temple., and this link includes a small rendering of what the redesigned temple grounds will look like to accommodate the Easter pageant:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/refresh-of-mesa-temple-and-grounds-to-include-replacement-of-visitors-center?lang=eng)

And here's the pageant list:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/events/pageants?lang=eng

They list pageants in Nauvoo, and the Hill Cumorah pageant says "Final year", 

 

[Bernard Gui]

15 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I, for one, wasn't expecting too much out of the ordinary. We're not yet deep enough into any degree of tribulation, yet, so I was perfectly satisfied with how it went. I enjoyed many of the talks (and totally missed the Saturday evening session -- it was 1 am here), so will have to pick that up tomorrow. I can understand disappointment, though. I think that President Nelson might have talked up this conference a little too much, and raised expectations for something rather more dramatic than what happened.  From some of the reactions in this thread, however, some got more than others from it.

I was seriously uplifted by many of the talks and I am looking forward to reviewing them. It's too late at night right now to get into details, and I probably can't remember enough at the moment. If only the Hosanna Shout had been done in the Conference Center is would have been far more dramatic and emotionally affecting. My wife and I enjoyed it nonetheless and felt uplifted by it. I could hardly sing "The Spirit of God" in connection with this, my heart was so full.

This new proclamation was the highlight of the conference.  Because it was brought to the fore in this way, the message of the restoration may very well get out to more people. One hopes that the media will sensationalize it (and if possibly out of impure motives, so what) and thus bring the word to many more.  "Mormon founder claims he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ!" might be one of the headlines. And who knows what will happen?  Some who might otherwise not care might be led to be curious.

We had a family Rezoomion after Conference. We and all 5 of our children and their kids loved the intimacy of the Hosanna Shout. We were all spiritually moved to tears, and the final hymn with the international choirs was incredibly moving. We all felt like we were in the personal presence of the First Presidency. I loved seeing them and trying to coordinate with their motions. Elder Oaks was going left when everyone else went right, so I tried to match him. It was endearing.
 

I felt more than ever the personal goodness of all the speakers. I gained a greater appreciation of President Nelson. President Eyring looked to be in better health this Conference. Each time when he approached the stand, Sister Gui would say,” Go, President Eyring! Go! You can do it!”

We all felt hope and reassurance, which is the message I needed at this moment. I also needed to hear the wonderful messages on the Atonement and repentance, especially that of the younger Elder Rasband. I appreciated the constant urging to hear, hearken to, and heed the words of Jesus.

[rongo]

58 minutes ago, pogi said:

I thought the church put the kibosh on pageants?

They're retaining only ones that are Jesus only. So, Mesa stays, but Manti, Clarkston, Nauvoo, and Palmyra are out.  

I don't have a problem with an emphasis on Jesus (obviously), but I also don't think we should de-emphasize the Restoration. That also clashes with, for example, today's proclamation about the Restoration. 

It shouldn't be zero sum. Not either/or, but both/and.

[JAHS]

53 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Don't know what title the tune had. The tune name of the hymn in the book is "Martyr". That's because it is a variant of the tune of Scotland the Brave.

Whatever you want, Scott. I was just saying that Praise to the Man makes me think of Scotland the Brave, regardless of which came first. Every time. Since I like the tune, that is not a problem.

"Scotland the Brave" by the Isle of Cumbrae Pipe Band as they march out of Braemar, Scotland. 5 minutes of glorious piping!!

 

According to Wiki,  "The poem was composed soon after Smith's death, and was later set to music and adopted as a hymn . It was first published anonymously in the church newspaper Times and Seasons in August 1844, approximately one month after Smith was killed. The LDS hymnal now uses a melody based on "Scotland the Brave" in honor of Phelps's Scottish heritage. The tune is modified to match the syllable count of the text."

 

[rongo]

48 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

49.2 per cent of all Muslims on this planet currently live in the five nations with the largest Muslim populations: Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Ignoring the temporary interruption of the pandemic, we currently have full-time missionaries serving in four of these five nations -- all but Bangladesh -- with a combined total of 40 per cent of the world's Muslims. Though missionaries in Indonesia and Pakistan face some restrictions, there is no law that prevents conversion in either nation. The district (now stake) that I belonged to in Java was almost entirely comprised of former Muslims. This is also the case in Pakistan.

Elder Anderson said (now many) years ago that the demand for missionaries in Indonesia, Pakistan, China, and India alone would require 120,000 missionaries, if we provided supply to meet the demand. Since we only had 67,000 total missionaries right now, before most foreign missionaries were called home (and what, only 30,000 or so of those are foreign), that would require our youth to step up in a really big way. Like, no margin for error with any being unprepared, unwilling, or unworthy. As it is, we only get 1/3 worldwide to go on missions. 

[MiserereNobis]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Don't know what title the tune had. The tune name of the hymn in the book is "Martyr". That's because it is a variant of the tune of Scotland the Brave.

Whatever you want, Scott. I was just saying that Praise to the Man makes me think of Scotland the Brave, regardless of which came first. Every time. Since I like the tune, that is not a problem.

"Scotland the Brave" by the Isle of Cumbrae Pipe Band as they march out of Braemar, Scotland. 5 minutes of glorious piping!!

 

Everyone is going to praise the bagpipers, and they deserve it, but let's not forget the drummers in the back...

[carbon dioxide]

It so fun to watch conference and then see things like this.  Yes conference might not be as entertaining but I also thankful for that. 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Don't know what title the tune had. The tune name of the hymn in the book is "Martyr". That's because it is a variant of the tune of Scotland the Brave.

Whatever you want, Scott. I was just saying that Praise to the Man makes me think of Scotland the Brave, regardless of which came first. Every time. Since I like the tune, that is not a problem.

"Scotland the Brave" by the Isle of Cumbrae Pipe Band as they march out of Braemar, Scotland. 5 minutes of glorious piping!!

 

It makes me think of “Scotland the Brave” as well. But I appreciate knowing that “Praise to the Man” is not derived from “Scotland the Brave,” which is what I erroneously thought for a while. 
 

It would be more accurate to say that both songs were set to the same already existing music, “Scotland the Brave” later than “Praise to the Man.”

[MiserereNobis]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone pointed out that today was Palm Sunday. This is a major liturgical day for Catholics and those who follow a liturgical calendar. I was unable to participate in Mass because of the coronavirus, but a neighbor down the street had palms for us, thanks be to God.

What do you think about President Nelson's call to fast on Good Friday coming on Palm Sunday? Is there a connection to traditional Christian liturgical calendars? Would that be a positive or negative thing?

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone pointed out that today was Palm Sunday. This is a major liturgical day for Catholics and those who follow a liturgical calendar. I was unable to participate in Mass because of the coronavirus, but a neighbor down the street had palms for us, thanks be to God.

What do you think about President Nelson's call to fast on Good Friday coming on Palm Sunday? Is there a connection to traditional Christian liturgical calendars? Would that be a positive or negative thing?

I’m even more impressed that the Hosanna Shout occurred on Pam Sunday. It harkens back to Christ’s triumphal entry into Jerusalem, when the people shouted, “Hosanna,” and waved Palm fronds. Our waving of a clean, white handkerchief during the ritual symbolizes the waving of the palm fronds.