Stargazer Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 When it comes to the question of what to add to the hymnbook, my sister-in-law and a friend of hers wrote a hymn which they submitted to the church for the purpose. Anyone here know anyone else who have done so? I've sometimes considered making an attempt at writing a hymn. I'm sure I'll never get around to it.
Stargazer Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Be Still My Soul must go. I’ve performed Sibelius’s orchestral work Finlandia from which it was adapted several times. We sang this last Sunday. I was annoyed that the music was omitted from the Music app. Had the idea that someone, somewhere, could write a new musical treatment. You're a musician, Bernard, couldn't you do it? 1
Scott Lloyd Posted January 28, 2020 Author Posted January 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Yes. I forgot about those two. Outta here. Praise to the Man is good but the tune is also borrowed....Scotland the Brave. Works well with bagpipes. Some say this was the original tune... https://www.ccel.org/ccel/walker/harmony/files/hymn/Star_in_the_East.htmlb If we’re nixing patriotic songs, Be Still My Soul must go. I’ve performed Sibelius’s orchestral work Finlandia from which it was adapted several times. To me the words just don’t go with the contours of the tune... thy si-iide. It used to be common practice to use or borrow an existing tune for a hymn text. We can exchange tunes in our hymn book if they match meters. For example, Now Let Us a rejoice and The Spirit of God texts can be sung to each other’s tunes....but tunes borrowed from other sources often come with baggage. Of course with you I’m preaching to the choir (director). 😊 I led the singing in priesthood meeting — back when we had singing in priesthood meeting. A time or two, just to change things up, I had us sing the words of one hymn to the music of another with a matching meter. Then there was the time as choir director that I blended the verses to “I Know That My Redeemer Lives” and “My Redeemer Lives.” I used the music from both hymns, applying the texts interchangeably with musical passages from each — if you get my drift. As I tell it, it sounds more complicated than it actually was. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted January 28, 2020 Author Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Stargazer said: When it comes to the question of what to add to the hymnbook, my sister-in-law and a friend of hers wrote a hymn which they submitted to the church for the purpose. Anyone here know anyone else who have done so? I've sometimes considered making an attempt at writing a hymn. I'm sure I'll never get around to it. When I was ward choir director, I needed a piece to commemorate the priesthood restoration. When I couldn’t find one, I ended up composing a musical setting for Doctrine and Covenants 13 (“Upon you my fellow servants ...” etc.). It was my first and only original composition. I had plans to submit it for the Church Music Contest but never got around to it. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted January 28, 2020 Author Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) On 1/28/2020 at 2:47 AM, mfbukowski said: I don't tell, mine that they have ascended to heaven as Jesus was, communing with Jehovah, mingling with Gods, and planning strategies for their brethren so that traitors and tyrants now fight them in vain. Seems to me that's a pretty false analogy. Seems to me also that lately the traitors and tyrants are doing pretty well and the church is hunkering down, trying to save the youth. Maybe Joseph is napping? We’ve been over this in times past. It is not unreasonable to suppose that Joseph is indeed mingling with Gods and is even now playing an active part in the unfolding events of the Restoration. In fact, to suppose he isn’t one would have to have a rather myopic view, it seems to me. And the traitors and tyrants can’t very well fight him now that he has become immortal, can they? Their nefarious deeds will eventually come to naught if they haven’t already. In your mockery, you’ve managed to mangle the words and message of the hymn pretty well. Congratulations. Edited February 3, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
Amulek Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 13 hours ago, bluebell said: I LOVE If You Could Hie to Kolob! It's such a pretty melody. It seems that your :sarcasm: emoji is missing. Maybe try using the eye-roll one instead - that ought to work just as well. Quote My problem with a lot of the hymns is that the arrangements in the hymnals are not very pretty or fun to sing. Plus, I think many of the hymns were just written during a time when singing was a more popular social form of expression. Even with a musical background, some of the hymns are fairly challenging to sing - let alone getting a whole congregation to sing. One of my least favorite things is when the ward music chair decides to 'mix it up' by picking a completely unfamiliar song that nobody has ever sung. It always ends so badly that it almost detracts from the meeting. I assume that part of the new hymnal initiative will be to remove these songs that, for all practical purposes, don't really need to be there anymore anyway - they're just taking up space. 1
Amulek Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: We can exchange tunes in our hymn book if they match meters. For example, Now Let Us a rejoice and The Spirit of God texts can be sung to each other’s tunes....but tunes borrowed from other sources often come with baggage. Taking the text from Jesus Once of Humble Birth and singing it to Angels We Have Heard on High (leaving the chorus in place) makes for a nice arrangement come Christmastime. 2
Calm Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 The basic hymnal will be smaller, but the potential for the digital could be quite large, especially if all members have access to local favorites of others.
The Nehor Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: What do you mean "the hymn book"? Do you think there is only an English language version of the hymnbook? Isn't that a bit presumptuously jingoistic? Jingoism? Are you suggesting he wants to invade someone?
bluebell Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Not that I doubt you, but do you have a source for that? If you don’t, it’s OK. Don’t spend time searching for it on my account. I’m just curious. It was easy to find so no worries. https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/06/18/mormon-church-creating-new-hymnbooks-for-adults-children/ "The faith’s governing First Presidency — President Russell M. Nelson and his two counselors, Dallin H. Oaks and Henry B. Eyring — already has assembled committees “to recommend revisions to the current music collections.” The new hymnbook and children’s songbook will offer “the same hymns and songs in all languages,” the release said. “National anthems will not be included in the printed hymnbooks.” I guess we'll have to see if that means no patriotic songs at all or just no anthems. Edited January 28, 2020 by bluebell 1
Bernard Gui Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Amulek said: One of my least favorite things is when the ward music chair decides to 'mix it up' by picking a completely unfamiliar song that nobody has ever sung. It always ends so badly that it almost detracts from the meeting. I assume that part of the new hymnal initiative will be to remove these songs that, for all practical purposes, don't really need to be there anymore anyway - they're just taking up space. How would you propose we learn new hymns if we don’t sing them in sacrament meeting a few times to get familiar with them?
Bernard Gui Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I led the singing in priesthood meeting — back when we had singing in priesthood meeting. A time or two, just to change things up, I had us sing the words of one hymn to the music of another with a matching meter. Then there was the time as choir director that I blended the verses to “I Know That My Redeemer Lives” and “My Redeemer Lives.” I used the music from both hymns, applying the texts interchangeably with musical passages from each — if you get my drift. As I tell it, it sounds more complicated than it actually was. Unintended consequences. Edited January 28, 2020 by Bernard Gui
DispensatorMysteriorum Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 18 hours ago, pogi said: That is one of my very favorite lyrics in all of the hymnal! I love the melody too. Which of the same three notes do you find the most satisfying? I am with Scott. 219 sucks.
Bernard Gui Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Stargazer said: We sang this last Sunday. I was annoyed that the music was omitted from the Music app. Had the idea that someone, somewhere, could write a new musical treatment. You're a musician, Bernard, couldn't you do it? Now that you mention it, I might give it a go. In my head I hear all the orchestral riffs that occur in the original when we sing the hymn. That’s kind of annoying. I also have a hard time with the organ hymns played in the temple chapels. For me they are very distracting if I am trying to think about something else. 2
Popular Post Amulek Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: How would you propose we learn new hymns if we don’t sing them in sacrament meeting a few times to get familiar with them? In wards I have attended where this has been done successfully, it has been incorporated into the program as a teaching activity. So, over the course of a month, the new song would be set as the closing hymn for each Sunday. On the first Sunday, it would be organ only, and everyone would just follow along in the hymnbook to get an idea for how the tune and the words went together. Second Sunday: everyone in the congregation would follow along again as the Choir performed the song as arranged in the hymnbook. Third Sunday: choir and congregation would sing together. Fourth Sunday: everyone from the congregation sings together (song learned). The newly learned song would then be incorporated into the regular music selection over the next couple of quarters for retention purposes. What I often see, instead, is something more like this: The music chair gets a list of topics, sees that the theme for the week is going to be revelation, and decides to throw something like "As the Dew from Heaven Distilling" into the mix. The congregation pretty much crashes and burns on the song, and we then go another decade or so without ever singing it again. You can probably tell which method I prefer. Edited January 28, 2020 by Amulek Spelling 5
MustardSeed Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 Anyone remember the primary song Stairway to Heaven? I love the chords in that song. I love the chord halfway thru Be still my Soul, and I love That Easter Morn. All the minor keyed sacrament hymns are beautiful to my ears. I recall my toddler daughter crying during one- telling me she was crying because the music was so pretty. 2
Amulek Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Anyone remember the primary song Stairway to Heaven? Overrated.
Ahab Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 15 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Doesn’t work for me to drop the melody an octave. It puts way too far in the cellar, and it sounds terrible. I won’t do it. I would rather try to improvise a bass line, but that’s not easy. Interesting. I can comfortably sing it all an octave lower and to sing it where most people sing it i have to sing falsetto, which I can do, but I think I sound like a girl when I sing it that way.
pogi Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DispensatorMysteriorum said: Which of the same three notes do you find the most satisfying? I am with Scott. 219 sucks. You're killing me here! Definitely more than 3 notes, but it is not the number of notes that makes a song great. Some of the greatest songs of all times are 3-4 chords. If it had a nice chorus and maybe a bridge that would make it great, but I like the simplicity of it too. It lends itself to many different styles. Here is a nice (not great) with a couple rough spots, rendition and a vocal delivery that reminds me so much of Alison Krauss (it's almost spooky how much she sounds like her with her breathy voice). Imagine this being performed by Alison Krauss and the Union Station with a catchy chorus after the second verse and a great bridge with a nice dobro solo by Jerry Douglas. Now that would be tasty! The song has good bones. But it's the lyrics that get me the most. Edited January 28, 2020 by pogi 2
mfbukowski Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Amulek said: In wards I have attended where this has been done successfully, it has been incorporated into the program as a teaching activity. So, over the course of a month, the new song would be set as the closing hymn for each Sunday. On the first Sunday, it would be organ only, and everyone would just follow along in the hymnbook to get an idea for how the tune and the words went together. Second Sunday: everyone in the congregation would follow along again as the Choir performed the song as arranged in the hymnbook. Third Sunday: choir and congregation would sing together. Fourth Sunday: everyone from the congregation sings together (song learned). The newly learned song would then be incorporated into the regular music selection over the next couple of quarters for retention purposes. What I often see, instead, is something more like this: The music chair gets a list of topics, sees that the theme for the week is going to be revelation, and decides to throw something like "As the Dew from Heaven Distilling" into the mix. The congregation pretty much crashes and burns on the song, and we then go another decade or so without ever singing it again. You can probably tell which method I prefer. It seems that all these we never sing, and seem to know which those are in our particular wards, have, ( pardon the term ) "pragmatically" already eliminated themselves from the book. A song never sung, for all practical purposes, does not exist anyway. So how about worrying more about what songs to add than subtract?
Amulek Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 34 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: It seems that all these we never sing, and seem to know which those are in our particular wards, have, ( pardon the term ) "pragmatically" already eliminated themselves from the book. A song never sung, for all practical purposes, does not exist anyway. I agree. To be honest, I can live with them just taking up space. But if they are costing us in terms of copyright payments or whatnot, then why not go ahead and thin the heard a bit? That seems like a reasonable enough plan. Quote So how about worrying more about what songs to add than subtract? If it were up to me, I would start by taking Beautiful Savior out of the Children's Songbook and moving it into the main hymnal where it belongs. 1
Derl Sanderson Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 I Believe in Christ. If it can't go, at least be honest and divide it into eight verses instead of trying to bluff us into thinking it's only four. The thing is way too long. Like a Mahler Symphony but without the genius. Do What is Right. I don't believe that "angels above us are silent notes taking." Same goes for the second verse of Dearest Children God is Near You where angels "keep a faithful record of the good and bad you say." Sounds like Google. Ring Out Wild Bells. Hideous hymn. Changing the last chord from minor to major isn't nearly enough to redeem the darkness of the thing. Put Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing back in. Restore the phrase "only he who does something is worthy to live" in verse two of Have I Done any Good? Maybe if people realized we're gonna take 'em out and kill 'em if they turn down church calls, we'd have an easier time staffing the nursery. While of These Emblems We Partake has two versions (#173 and #174). We NEVER sing the second, which has a much more appealing accompaniment. Hose #173.
Ahab Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, pogi said: You're killing me here! Definitely more than 3 notes, but it is not the number of notes that makes a song great. Some of the greatest songs of all times are 3-4 chords. If it had a nice chorus and maybe a bridge that would make it great, but I like the simplicity of it too. It lends itself to many different styles. Here is a nice (not great) with a couple rough spots, rendition and a vocal delivery that reminds me so much of Alison Krauss (it's almost spooky how much she sounds like her with her breathy voice). Imagine this being performed by Alison Krauss and the Union Station with a catchy chorus after the second verse and a great bridge with a nice dobro solo by Jerry Douglas. Now that would be tasty! The song has good bones. But it's the lyrics that get me the most. Anyone who likes Alison Krauss AND hymn# 219 is a friend of mine even if he disagrees with me a LOT! And by the way, while we're at this, let's emphasize that these things should be referred to as hymn numbers, not page numbers. It gets my goat when people refer to our hymn by page number.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 28, 2020 Author Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) On 1/28/2020 at 10:32 AM, Ahab said: Interesting. I can comfortably sing it all an octave lower and to sing it where most people sing it i have to sing falsetto, which I can do, but I think I sound like a girl when I sing it that way. It may be comfortable to sing it that low: I’m talking about how it sounds. As I said, women sound fine doing it. It just puts them in the tenor range. Men sound like fog horns. Edited February 3, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
bluebell Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, MustardSeed said: Anyone remember the primary song Stairway to Heaven? I love the chords in that song. I love the chord halfway thru Be still my Soul, and I love That Easter Morn. All the minor keyed sacrament hymns are beautiful to my ears. I recall my toddler daughter crying during one- telling me she was crying because the music was so pretty. I agree. I love those songs. 1
Recommended Posts