Scott Lloyd Posted January 30, 2020 Author Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Calm said: Doesn't appear all that good natured when you went to the extreme of accusing pogi of lying about the comic. Actually what I said was I didn’t believe he is “a simple man.” I thought it might be something of a compliment to contradict his self-deprecating characterization. At any rate, I thought he and I had patched things up when I explained myself and he accepted my explanation in good faith. I’m not inclined to revisit it or get into it with you now.
Bernard Gui Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, ERMD said: "Battle Hymn of the Republic" “Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school....” 1
Scott Lloyd Posted January 30, 2020 Author Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) On 1/29/2020 at 11:00 PM, Thinking said: The message in this hymn transcends belief systems. I would think that the message is more important than ornerous copyright restrictions. I have no problem with the message. But I don’t think a message has to “transcend belief systems” to be true or good. Or that one message is necessarily better than another just because it “transcends belief systems.” The value in the Church ofJesus Christ of Latter-day is that it affirms precepts that might be considered generic and others that are not. Edited January 31, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted January 30, 2020 Author Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: What do you think about the song: "I Stand All Amazed"? I'm partial because my mom loved that song and it was sung at her funeral. Beautiful and sublime. Definitely a keeper! 1
Boanerges Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 9 hours ago, Tacenda said: What do you think about the song: "I Stand All Amazed"? I'm partial because my mom loved that song and it was sung at her funeral. It's one of my favorites.
bluebell Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 10 hours ago, MorningStar said: We could just change the entire line to something more pleasant. The word "molest" brings an image I don't want to think about. "From morn until eve." Let's also get rid of True to the Faith. It sounds like a high school band song played at a football game and I hate it. I also can't stand the tune to "As Zion's Youth in Latter Days". The tune to "I Believe in Christ" is boring and I hate it. We need a new tune and it needs to be shortened by a lot. The first 5 notes are the same note. How much more boring could it get? I was asked to sing it at a funeral and I was so grateful when the family changed their minds. Because I was thinking, "By the time I'm done, people will wish it were their funeral." Agreed. 1
Ahab Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 13 hours ago, mfbukowski said: That's not communication and causes wars and, uh, political misunderstandings. What is a "quid pro quo" exactly? And what even is a "same idea"? How could a third party judge between two ideas to see if they are the "same"? All we have is YOUR understanding vs MY understanding. There's no microscope to examine two ideas to see if they are the same. If you just want the gist of something you had better not comment on it. Keep it simple minded if your answers are going to be simple minded. You have to be on the same level as the person with whom you are communicating.'' If I am getting the gist of your meaning, that seems to me like a very difficult thing to accomplish. I understand you to be saying it's difficult to determine if one person's understanding is the same as another's and yet you're saying we should try to be on the same level. How are you going to determine if you are on the same level as me? Or if I am on the same level as you? And if that is accomplished, somehow, wouldn't that indicate that we at least got the gist of each other's meaning? My point was simply that we use words to try to share ideas and it doesn't matter which words we use as long as we can share those same ideas even while using some other words. That's what synonyms are for, in my perspective. We can share an idea without using the same exact words. Like if I use the word faith and you talk about being sure about something without using he word faith how I can see that we are talking about the same thing even though we are not using the same exact words. Synonyms and definitions of words are useful too. 13 hours ago, mfbukowski said: 'And keeping it on a positive note, I like your new avatar, it is considerably better looking than your old one. Well of course she looks better than me. She is my better half. And since we are one I just wanted others to see someone else who I am one with. I wish our Lord and Father in heaven shared pictures of themselves with us. I would like to see what they look like.
MorningStar Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 13 hours ago, Tacenda said: What do you think about the song: "I Stand All Amazed"? I'm partial because my mom loved that song and it was sung at her funeral. I love it!
topcougar Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 On 1/28/2020 at 12:52 PM, Scott Lloyd said: Ah, a man after my own vocal range! I have at times sung the melody an octave lower - that works.
MorningStar Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Other than to note that those hymns you’ve mentioned are among my favorites, I don’t have too much to say in response. I’ll just opine that a musical passage with a single note repeated several times is not necessarily boring if the chords change during the course of that passage — as they do with “I Believe in Christ.” “Because I Have Been Given Much” also opens with a note repeated five times. I wonder if you find that boring as well (though the former extends over nearly two measures and the latter only one, followed by five more identical notes). But it won’t do to argue aesthetics. It does not go anywhere, as preferences are so subjective. P. S. “Molest,” in its broader sense, means to annoy or harass — precisely what the Latter-day Saints were subjected to in the early days of the Church. The hymn looks forward to “the day of salvation,” “the hour of redemption,” when they would receive “all that was promised” and be free from oppression 24/7, “from morn until ev’n.” What a blessed message of hope that must have been for a people besieged with continual violence, persecution, arson, theft, murder, dispossession of lands and property, etc. In s sense, we, their literal and/or spiritual descendants, are living in “the day of salvation” to which they looked forward. And there are even greater blessings to come thanks to the legacy they bequeathed to us and that we pass on. Maybe the word "disturb"? Nowadays if I tell a cop someone molested me, that will only be taken as one thing. Gay used to just mean happy, but in the song "I Feel Pretty", the lyrics have been changed to "I feel pretty and witty and bright and I pity any girl who isn't me tonight". When I teach piano, kids are shocked at "Don we now our gay apparel" because it's never used has happy now. So I just tell them it's all about letting a well-dressed gay man choose our outfits. (I'm kidding, everyone.) 1
Ahab Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, MorningStar said: Maybe the word "disturb"? Nowadays if I tell a cop someone molested me, that will only be taken as one thing. Gay used to just mean happy, but in the song "I Feel Pretty", the lyrics have been changed to "I feel pretty and witty and bright and I pity any girl who isn't me tonight". When I teach piano, kids are shocked at "Don we now our gay apparel" because it's never used has happy now. So I just tell them it's all about letting a well-dressed gay man choose our outfits. (I'm kidding, everyone.) Natalie would be shocked, I'm sure!!! I feel pretty and witty and gay! and I pity any girl who isn't me today La la la la la la la la la la This was sung by Natalie Wood in a 1961 musical called West Side Story, for those who don't know. I was born that year. 1
Calm Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, MorningStar said: I love it! I love the words, the melody not so much.
Calm Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, MorningStar said: Maybe the word "disturb"? Mistreat? If not dramatic enough, "assail"?
Amulek Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Calm said: Mistreat? If not dramatic enough, "assail"? I would probably go with "harass," or maybe "beset;" that's got more of an olden day feel to it. If you really want to go dramatic then why not "torment" - that's a good one.
Calm Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Amulek said: I would probably go with "harass," or maybe "beset;" that's got more of an olden day feel to it. If you really want to go dramatic then why not "torment" - that's a good one. Harass would be good, imo, the s sound fits best. Torment if one wants to up the intensity.
Ahab Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Calm said: Harass would be good, imo, the s sound fits best. Torment if one wants to up the intensity. This would pertain to any hymn with the word "molest" in it. I had to go back to near the top of page 7 to remember what hymn you and the rest of us have been talking about. MorningStar said she only knows of one of our hymns that has that word in it but would like that word changed wherever it may appear in our hymn book. I did a search and found this: Now Let us Rejoice Now let us rejoice in the day of salvation. No longer as strangers on earth need we roam. Good tidings are sounding to us and each nation, And shortly the hour of redemption will come, When all that was promised the Saints will be given, And none will molest them from morn until ev’n, And earth will appear as the Garden of Eden, And Jesus will say to all Israel, “Come home.” We’ll love one another and never dissemble But cease to do evil and ever be one. And when the ungodly are fearing and tremble, We’ll watch for the day when the Savior will come, When all that was promised the Saints will be given, And none will molest them from morn until ev’n, And earth will appear as the Garden of Eden, And Jesus will say to all Israel, “Come home.” In faith we’ll rely on the arm of Jehovah To guide thru these last days of trouble and gloom, And after the scourges and harvest are over, We’ll rise with the just when the Savior doth come. Then all that was promised the Saints will be given, And they will be crown’d with the angels of heav’n, And earth will appear as the Garden of Eden, And Christ and his people will ever be one. Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872. Included in the first LDS hymnbook, 1835. Music: Henry Tucker, ca. 1863 So yes I'd go with upping the intensity and going with torment instead of molest, and in my mind I'd be including any other synonyms of molest or anything bad as what we will not have to put up with any more! Edited January 30, 2020 by Ahab
Amulek Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 To be honest, I don't have a problem with the word "molest" being used in a hymn. It's just a word. Its usage is a bit dated, sure (just like the hymn which employs it), but it is used similarly in the Book of Mormon and other places as well. Not seeing what the big deal is. Do we need to add a trigger warning or something? 3
pogi Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Amulek said: Its usage is a bit dated, sure (just like the hymn which employs it), but it is used similarly in the Book of Mormon and other places as well. ...very holy places. 1
teddyaware Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) On 1/27/2020 at 3:46 PM, Scott Lloyd said: It’s fairly well known that a new hymn book is in the works. It’s a given that not every hymn in our current hymnal can be carried over into the next one; some will have to be excluded to make room for new compositions and other additions. I submit herewith my nomination for one such elimination. It is “Because I Have Been Given Much,” No. 219. Here are my reasons. 1. It is difficult for me to sing as arranged. Almost all of the hymns in our book are not keyed in a comfortable vocal range for me to sing the lead or melody part. But since nearly all are arranged in four-part vocal harmony, it’s a simple matter for me to follow the bass line. Since I like to harmonize anyway, it’s a satisfying experience for me to sing our hymns. Except for 219. It is printed in an arrangement with only a vocal lead part, no harmony. And as I indicated, it is in an uncomfortable key for my range. Some days, if the meeting is early in the day and my vocal cords haven’t quite awakened yet, and that hymn is chosen for congregational singing, I opt not to sing at all because it is too daunting for me to reach those notes. 2. Onerous copyright restrictions. Almost every one of our hymns may be freely copied for incidental Church or home use. Not so with No. 219. In the printed hymn book, it carries this notice: “All rights reserved. International copyright secured. Used by permission. Making copies without written permission of the copyright owner is prohibited.” The hymn is only provided in the printed version of the hymn book. It is not available in the digital versions meant for the Church website or its mobile app. I think it fairly obvious this is due to the draconian copyright provisions. That might also be the reason that only a melody line is provided. Perhaps in order to secure permission to publish the hymn, the Church had to agree not to alter the written arrangement My point is, why should we put up with this? We have ample selections in our hymnody; we don’t have to choose one with such austere copyright restrictions. It has a nice message in the text, but so do our other hymns and, no doubt, so will the new ones selected for inclusion in the new book. It is not indispensable. And I don’t find the melody outstanding. So I’m for voting No. 219 off the island. I used to sing professionally and from time to time still sing as a soloist in Sacrament Meeting (this past Christmas service I sang ‘O Holy Night’), and I can tell you that, at least from this singer’s point of view, LDS hymn No.219 is easy to sing. What do you find challenging about it? Edited January 31, 2020 by teddyaware
Ahab Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Amulek said: To be honest, I don't have a problem with the word "molest" being used in a hymn. It's just a word. Its usage is a bit dated, sure (just like the hymn which employs it), but it is used similarly in the Book of Mormon and other places as well. Not seeing what the big deal is. Do we need to add a trigger warning or something? Some people just don't like to think of bad things that happen or could happen. They would rather fill their minds with positive happy thoughts without any negative baggage. Me included. I don't like thinking of bad things that happened or could happen. I can relate to what William was talking about, though. The earlier saints in our dispensation went through a lot of bad things and I'm sure they longed for the day when they could just think about positive happy things without having to worry about bad things happening again. Maybe writing that hymn was therapy for him, and maybe singing it back then helped those people who were going through so many bad things to know that at some glorious day in the future they wouldn't have to put up with that kind of thing anymore! Edited January 30, 2020 by Ahab
Bernard Gui Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 8 hours ago, MorningStar said: Maybe the word "disturb"? Nowadays if I tell a cop someone molested me, that will only be taken as one thing. Gay used to just mean happy, but in the song "I Feel Pretty", the lyrics have been changed to "I feel pretty and witty and bright and I pity any girl who isn't me tonight". When I teach piano, kids are shocked at "Don we now our gay apparel" because it's never used has happy now. So I just tell them it's all about letting a well-dressed gay man choose our outfits. (I'm kidding, everyone.) Has anyone suggested “oppress”? 1
MorningStar Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Has anyone suggested “oppress”? Ooh! That's perfect!
Scott Lloyd Posted January 31, 2020 Author Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, teddyaware said: I used to sing professionally and from time to time still sing as a soloist in Sacrament Meeting (this past Christmas service I sang ‘O Holy Night’), and I can tell you that, at least from this singer’s point of view, LDS hymn No.219 is easy to sing. What do you find challenging about it? As I indicated in my post, it's the arrangement that makes it difficult for me to sing. It's in an uncomfortable key for my vocal range, and the sheet music directs that it be sung in unison, so there is no bass part for me to follow as there is with almost all of the other hymns in the hymnbook. If it were in a more accessible key for me, or if it were arranged for SATB parts as most of the other hymns are, I would be fine with it. Since it has such strict copyright regulations, I don't see that any of this will happen, so I favor elimination of it from the hymnbook. Edited January 31, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted January 31, 2020 Author Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/28/2020 at 7:16 AM, Amulek said: Taking the text from Jesus Once of Humble Birth and singing it to Angels We Have Heard on High (leaving the chorus in place) makes for a nice arrangement come Christmastime. Nice idea. The words have more to do with His Second Coming than with His birth in mortality, but that is the case with "Joy to the World," one of our standard Christmas carols.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 31, 2020 Author Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, MorningStar said: Ooh! That's perfect! Yeah, I thought of that later. It (oppress) works better than any of the other synonyms for "molest" that have been suggested here.
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