Scott Lloyd Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) It’s fairly well known that a new hymn book is in the works. It’s a given that not every hymn in our current hymnal can be carried over into the next one; some will have to be excluded to make room for new compositions and other additions. I submit herewith my nomination for one such elimination. It is “Because I Have Been Given Much,” No. 219. Here are my reasons. 1. It is difficult for me to sing as arranged. Almost all of the hymns in our book are not keyed in a comfortable vocal range for me to sing the lead or melody part. But since nearly all are arranged in four-part vocal harmony, it’s a simple matter for me to follow the bass line. Since I like to harmonize anyway, it’s a satisfying experience for me to sing our hymns. Except for 219. It is printed in an arrangement with only a vocal lead part, no harmony. And as I indicated, it is in an uncomfortable key for my range. Some days, if the meeting is early in the day and my vocal cords haven’t quite awakened yet, and that hymn is chosen for congregational singing, I opt not to sing at all because it is too daunting for me to reach those notes. 2. Onerous copyright restrictions. Almost every one of our hymns may be freely copied for incidental Church or home use. Not so with No. 219. In the printed hymn book, it carries this notice: “All rights reserved. International copyright secured. Used by permission. Making copies without written permission of the copyright owner is prohibited.” The hymn is only provided in the printed version of the hymn book. It is not available in the digital versions meant for the Church website or its mobile app. I think it fairly obvious this is due to the draconian copyright provisions. That might also be the reason that only a melody line is provided. Perhaps in order to secure permission to publish the hymn, the Church had to agree not to alter the written arrangement My point is, why should we put up with this? We have ample selections in our hymnody; we don’t have to choose one with such austere copyright restrictions. It has a nice message in the text, but so do our other hymns and, no doubt, so will the new ones selected for inclusion in the new book. It is not indispensable. And I don’t find the melody outstanding. So I’m for voting No. 219 off the island. Edited January 27, 2020 by Scott Lloyd 2 Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 If You Could Hie to Kolob (Hymns 1985 No. 284) has many of the same problems, but I hope they/we don't get rid of it. (It is not copiable because of where the music comes from, so the music for it, too, is not available on the Church's Web site). It has esoteric doctrine (and perhaps speculation) with which some members are uncomfortable ... but that's why I like it. For the most part, beyond a rather basic "Plan of Salvation" lesson and some references in the scriptures, with respect to the life to come, all we can do is speculate. Still, I like the idea that this life wasn't our beginning, and its end won't be our end. We came from somewhere, a place where we spent (essentially) eternity past getting ready to come here, and we're going somewhere, a place where we will spend (essentially) eternity future learning, growing, and becoming something we cannot now fathom, getting answers to so many of the questions that so perplex(ed) us here (to which I say, "Hasten the day!" ). 4 Link to comment
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted January 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 27, 2020 Anything with a dirge-like pace can go. But much of that is on the chorister/congregation. I've heard "Because I have been given much" sung brightly with gratitude and droned like we don't actually want to give. 5 Link to comment
Ahab Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: It’s fairly well known that a new hymn book is in the works. It’s a given that not every hymn in our current hymnal can be carried over into the next one; some will have to be excluded to make room for new compositions and other additions. I submit herewith my nomination for one such elimination. It is “Because I Have Been Given Much,” No. 219. Here are my reasons. 1. It is difficult for me to sing as arranged. Almost all of the hymns in our book are not keyed in a comfortable vocal range for me to sing the lead or melody part. But since nearly all are arranged in four-part vocal harmony, it’s a simple matter for me to follow the bass line. Since I like to harmonize anyway, it’s a satisfying experience for me to sing our hymns. Except for 219. It is printed in an arrangement with only a vocal lead part, no harmony. And as I indicated, it is in an uncomfortable key for my range. Some days, if the meeting is early in the day and my vocal cords haven’t quite awakened yet, and that hymn is chosen for congregational singing, I opt not to sing at all because it is too daunting for me to reach those notes. 2. Onerous copyright restrictions. Almost every one of our hymns may be freely copied for incidental Church or home use. Not so with No. 219. In the printed hymn book, it carries this notice: “All rights reserved. International copyright secured. Used by permission. Making copies without written permission of the copyright owner is prohibited.” The hymn is only provided in the printed version of the hymn book. It is not available in the digital versions meant for the Church website or its mobile app. I think it fairly obvious this is due to the draconian copyright provisions. That might also be the reason that only a melody line is provided. Perhaps in order to secure permission to publish the hymn, the Church had to agree not to alter the written arrangement My point is, why should we put up with this? We have ample selections in our hymnody; we don’t have to choose one with such austere copyright restrictions. It has a nice message in the text, but so do our other hymns and, no doubt, so will the new ones selected for inclusion in the new book. It is not indispensable. And I don’t find the melody outstanding. So I’m for voting No. 219 off the island. Nope, sorry, we're keeping this one. One of my and my wife's favorites, played for our wedding, or wedding reception. If you can't hit the high notes you can switch to a lower octave and then back up again when you want or just sing "oooh" and "ahhh" as appropriate in harmony. Edited January 27, 2020 by Ahab 2 Link to comment
pogi Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: So I’m for voting No. 219 off the island. Oh, please no! That is one of my very favorite lyrics in all of the hymnal! I love the melody too. It teaches of gratitude and thanksgiving on a deeper and touching level. I see the spirit of the Savior in those lyrics more than any other. 1 Link to comment
Duncan Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I don't like that hymn that has the words, IIRC "firm as the mountains around us: but we are on the prairies.......................ain't no mountains for kilometres!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment
Ahab Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Duncan said: I don't like that hymn that has the words, IIRC "firm as the mountains around us: but we are on the prairies.......................ain't no mountains for kilometres!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The mountains are still around you and they are firm even if you can't see them from where you are. Link to comment
RevTestament Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: It’s fairly well known that a new hymn book is in the works. It’s a given that not every hymn in our current hymnal can be carried over into the next one; some will have to be excluded to make room for new compositions and other additions. I submit herewith my nomination for one such elimination. It is “Because I Have Been Given Much,” No. 219. Here are my reasons. 1. It is difficult for me to sing as arranged. Almost all of the hymns in our book are not keyed in a comfortable vocal range for me to sing the lead or melody part. But since nearly all are arranged in four-part vocal harmony, it’s a simple matter for me to follow the bass line. Since I like to harmonize anyway, it’s a satisfying experience for me to sing our hymns. Except for 219. It is printed in an arrangement with only a vocal lead part, no harmony. And as I indicated, it is in an uncomfortable key for my range. Some days, if the meeting is early in the day and my vocal cords haven’t quite awakened yet, and that hymn is chosen for congregational singing, I opt not to sing at all because it is too daunting for me to reach those notes. 2. Onerous copyright restrictions. Almost every one of our hymns may be freely copied for incidental Church or home use. Not so with No. 219. In the printed hymn book, it carries this notice: “All rights reserved. International copyright secured. Used by permission. Making copies without written permission of the copyright owner is prohibited.” The hymn is only provided in the printed version of the hymn book. It is not available in the digital versions meant for the Church website or its mobile app. I think it fairly obvious this is due to the draconian copyright provisions. That might also be the reason that only a melody line is provided. Perhaps in order to secure permission to publish the hymn, the Church had to agree not to alter the written arrangement My point is, why should we put up with this? We have ample selections in our hymnody; we don’t have to choose one with such austere copyright restrictions. It has a nice message in the text, but so do our other hymns and, no doubt, so will the new ones selected for inclusion in the new book. It is not indispensable. And I don’t find the melody outstanding. So I’m for voting No. 219 off the island. No real objection from me, but it is a song that is chosen fairly often. Although the hymn is kinda pleasant, i sometimes find it kind of plodding and simplistic. As for being out of range, just lower it an octave.... Before dropping that one, there are many others which I either don't ever remember singing, or like less. In the I don't remember category: 115 Come, ye Disconsolate. I actually had to look it up on Youtube to get a good idea of the melody because I don't ever recall singing this song... ever. However, I kind of liked the tune and the words, so maybe we should just sing it occasionally. In the errant category: 198 That Easter Morn - I think I remember singing this one time... I didn't really like it. It should be Passover morn.... I know what you are thinking, but Passover does last one week. Easter is just wrong. 234 I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day. OK, I know you like that song. Ok, we can keep it, but the notes and the word in the third verse need to change to accomodate Yom Teruah or the Feast of Trumpets instead of Christmas. 269 Jehovah, Lord of Heaven and Earth; OK, I don't want this song gone. It just needs a slight correction to the more correct transliteration of Yehovah. Then all is good. In the outdated category: 307 In Our Lovely Deseret - not PC anymore. This is a world wide Church. Never sing it anyway. 341 God Save the King - really? I don't want no earthly king - esp Obama... or Trump...for that matter. 338-340 Will probably soon be outdated. She was good while she lasted, but methinks she is going to be replaced with something new... Not sure though so let's be thankful for her while we got her I guess. In the duplicitous category: ex. 173-4 Do we really need two different versions? Let's keep the prettier ones and chuck the optional ones... or just include the alternate notes on the same page in the event someone wishes to use them. There are probably a few others. About a year ago I made a list of 25 or so great Protestant hymns which we could include(some with a few minor adjustments). A good number of converts would certainly welcome them. Perhaps a digital volume of the best of the new proposals could be released as a test to see if any quickly catch on for inclusion in a permanent printed volume. Link to comment
Ahab Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, RevTestament said: ...About a year ago I made a list of 25 or so great Protestant hymns which we could include(some with a few minor adjustments). A good number of converts would certainly welcome them. Perhaps a digital volume of the best of the new proposals could be released as a test to see if any quickly catch on for inclusion in a permanent printed volume. Ah, the oldies that I still remember as goodies. Among my favorites would be this one (and my younger brother usually did sing it louder than I did, too): Link to comment
Amulek Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I really like Because I Have Been Given Much. I remember memorizing it for a primary program way back in the day, and I still think of it fondly. If I could get rid of only one song in the hymnal it would be "If You Could Hie to Kolob." I'm sorry, but that song just drones on and on. Seriously, you might as well just take every line for the last two verses and replace them each with "There is no end to this song." That's pretty much how I feel by the time I get to the end. It's absolutely maddening - like someone had just forced me to sing Pioneer Children Sang As They Walked, like five times in a row. The only redeeming quality it possesses is that, with pretty minimal effort, you can take the words and put them to the tune of the Beverly Hillbilly's theme song. That's good for a laugh once or twice, but even that wears thin pretty quickly. Better to just leave this one in the past. 1 Link to comment
RevTestament Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ahab said: Ah, the oldies that I still remember as goodies. Among my favorites would be this one (and my younger brother usually did sing it louder than I did, too): Too cute, if not slightly errant... Gotta hand it to him though... he got that high note...at least once. Link to comment
strappinglad Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) I vote we keep " High on a Mountain Top " . It's good for a giggle for reformed druggies, teenagers,... and me. 😎 In all honesty they could lose half the hymnal and ,as long as they kept the standard ones, I would not notice. Edited January 27, 2020 by strappinglad Link to comment
2BizE Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I vote that Praise to the Man be removed. It is clearly prophet worship. We should be singing praises to Christ, not Joseph Smith. I also don’t care much for Because I Have been given much. It is hard to sing and I get tired and just Quit. Same with I believe in Christ. Those three are ones I vote to Kick out of the hymnal. 3 Link to comment
bluebell Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 48 minutes ago, Amulek said: I really like Because I Have Been Given Much. I remember memorizing it for a primary program way back in the day, and I still think of it fondly. If I could get rid of only one song in the hymnal it would be "If You Could Hie to Kolob." I'm sorry, but that song just drones on and on. Seriously, you might as well just take every line for the last two verses and replace them each with "There is no end to this song." That's pretty much how I feel by the time I get to the end. It's absolutely maddening - like someone had just forced me to sing Pioneer Children Sang As They Walked, like five times in a row. The only redeeming quality it possesses is that, with pretty minimal effort, you can take the words and put them to the tune of the Beverly Hillbilly's theme song. That's good for a laugh once or twice, but even that wears thin pretty quickly. Better to just leave this one in the past. I LOVE If You Could Hie to Kolob! It's such a pretty melody. My problem with a lot of the hymns is that the arrangements in the hymnals are not very pretty or fun to sing. 2 Link to comment
bluebell Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I think there would be a brawl if Hymn 219 was removed. So many people love that song (though it's never been a favorite of mine). 1 Link to comment
Jeanne Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Ahab said: Nope, sorry, we're keeping this one. One of my and my wife's favorites, played for our wedding, or wedding reception. If you can't hit the high notes you can switch to a lower octave and then back up again when you want or just sing "oooh" and "ahhh" as appropriate in harmony. Played for a reception?? Okay................. Link to comment
Ahab Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Just now, Jeanne said: Played for a reception?? Okay................. On further thought I remembered it was for the wedding itself. A piano prelude before my wife came in, before she was my wife. We were married in what was then our home with about 50 people attending, including some of my family who were not members of the Church. And then while we stood there someone played the violin and another woman sang a country song named "From this Moment". That was awkward as the singer didn't really have a very nice voice and the violin player played at a really slow tempo, but they had asked if they could and were nice enough to say yes. Ahhh, memories. Almost 18 years now and my wife still keeps me around so I must be doing something right because she still says she loves me the mostest even after I have been telling her for years now that I love her the mostest. I have been given much. 2 Link to comment
sheilauk Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, RevTestament said: 307 In Our Lovely Deseret - not PC anymore. This is a world wide Church. Never sing it anyway. 341 God Save the King - really? I don't want no earthly king - esp Obama... or Trump...for that matter. You don't know that God Save the King is the UK's national anthem? Currently we sing Queen instead of King. On the basis of your same argument for removing in our lovely deseret, they should remove God save the king/queen and also 337, 338, 339 & 340. 3 Link to comment
sheilauk Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 39 minutes ago, 2BizE said: I vote that Praise to the Man be removed. It is clearly prophet worship. We should be singing praises to Christ, not Joseph Smith. Praising doesn't equal worship though it is part of worship. I think that it is important to remember and give thanks for the man who gave so much for Christ's church. I don't think hymns should be removed because someone thinks they are dull or slow or boring or difficult for them to sing. I am a low alto, many of the melodies are too high for me, I just sing them an octave lower. No biggie! For every person who thinks that a hymn is awful, there is one who loves it. There are a number of hymns with copyright protection including one of my favourites, how great though art. It doesnt seem a good reason to stop singing it to me. Hymns should be removed if they are not sung in most congregations or they don't reflect doctrine. 2 Link to comment
bluebell Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, sheilauk said: You don't know that God Save the King is the UK's national anthem? Currently we sing Queen instead of King. On the basis of your same argument for removing in our lovely deseret, they should remove God save the king/queen and also 337, 338, 339 & 340. I thougbht I remember them saying that they aren't going to be having patriotic hymns in the hymnal any longer with the new change, which is fine with me. 4 Link to comment
sheilauk Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Just now, bluebell said: I thougbht I remember them saying that they aren't going to be having patriotic hymns in the hymnal any longer with the new change, which is fine with me. I think I heard that too and, because we are a world wide church, I'm fine with it too. 1 Link to comment
RevTestament Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Didn't I say that? Just in a slightly different way? I guess you are saying 341 is in the hymnal for the benefit of our members in England. Well, I don't ever intend on singing it... no offence to you or our English members. Not that I don't like the Queen. She has been a rather remarkable person, but of course she doesn't hold any power anymore, but is just a symbol. Link to comment
Popular Post pogi Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 49 minutes ago, bluebell said: I think there would be a brawl if Hymn 219 was removed. So many people love that song (though it's never been a favorite of mine). I really began to appreciate the song on my mission when I first witnessed witnessed the impoverished conditions of the developing world. Their generosity and hospitality despite their conditions astounded me - they would skip a meal to make sure I, a well-fed and healthy American coming from relative luxury, was fed. I remember fighting to keep back the tears as I sang that song on my mission as these people taught me about the true love of Christ in sharing bread. As a super typhoon hit the islands, I saw many fill their roofs safe shelter beyond capacity with families who lost their bamboo huts in the storm. We spent months rebuilding homes instead of proselyting. Experiencing what I experienced over there filled me with a profound gratitude and heightened recognition of my blessings, of which I have vowed to share with those in need to make my thanks to God be thanks in deed and not just words. On a more lighthearted note, it reminds me of Bob Marley’s song “No Woman No Cry”, where he shares his log fire and a meal of porridge with those in the government yard in Trenchtown, helping to wipe away tears. 5 Link to comment
sheilauk Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Just now, RevTestament said: Didn't I say that? Just in a slightly different way? I guess you are saying 341 is in the hymnal for the benefit of our members in England. Well, I don't ever intend on singing it... no offence to you or our English members. Not that I don't like the Queen. She has been a rather remarkable person, but of course she doesn't hold any power anymore, but is just a symbol. I believe that is why it was included. Pretty sure there would be no reason for you to sing it in a church service in the USA. Actually, i dont know why there would be a reason to sing it or the other patriotic hymns in the hymn book in a church service at all. As for never singing it, I hope that you would at least stand in respect of the UK if you were at an event where it was appropriately played. It IS our National Anthem. The Queen is okay, but yes, she is a symbol, without power, but she does have influence. 2 Link to comment
Jeanne Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 33 minutes ago, Ahab said: On further thought I remembered it was for the wedding itself. A piano prelude before my wife came in, before she was my wife. We were married in what was then our home with about 50 people attending, including some of my family who were not members of the Church. And then while we stood there someone played the violin and another woman sang a country song named "From this Moment". That was awkward as the singer didn't really have a very nice voice and the violin player played at a really slow tempo, but they had asked if they could and were nice enough to say yes. Ahhh, memories. Almost 18 years now and my wife still keeps me around so I must be doing something right because she still says she loves me the mostest even after I have been telling her for years now that I love her the mostest. I have been given much. That is cool...love it! Personally, I think it is a beautiful song. I was inactive for a long time and the first sacrament meeting that I went to ...this was the opening song...didn't know it well..but loved it! Link to comment
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