Mormon Newsroom and Suicide

[bsjkki]

The mormon newsroom published a commentary on the topic of suicide. It highlighted this statement by Elder Dallin H. Oaks. 

"As disciples of Jesus Christ, we have a sacred duty in our congregations and families to reach out to everyone in our communities. We can’t let youth feel isolated or unwanted. Elder Dallin H. Oaks warned of the risks of unkind behavior:

Making a child or youth feel worthless, unloved, or unwanted can inflict serious and long-lasting injury on his or her emotional well-being and development. Young people struggling with any exceptional condition, including same-gender attraction, are particularly vulnerable and need loving understanding—not bullying or ostracism. With the help of the Lord, we can repent and change and be more loving and helpful to children—our own and those around us."

The article also discussed the actions the church was taking. Including, 

"This month, the Church is publishing a series of resources to help prevent suicide, including:

• Three new articles in the Ensign (a magazine for adult Latter-day Saints) and the New Era (a magazine for Latter-day Saint teens)
• A major update to suicide.lds.org
• Updated training for Church leaders"

Is this a reflection of a new sensitivity to the issue of suicide by  the church or do  you think suicide is a growing problem in the church or both? 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/work-together-reduce-suicide-depression

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by bsjkki

[Duncan]

I suspect its both, I think it's great the Church is doing this. be careful what you say and be sensitive to those who might be struggling. I recall maybe 2 years ago now? this new move in from another Canadian province came to our class and he said he had lost his business and in the space of maybe 30-40 minutes he mentioned suicide (not about himself necessarily) about 3-4 times. To me, that's a red flag. So, I talked to another person, who was in class, afterwards and we did this subtle plan to engage him and invite him to stuff, take him out to lunch etc. I am not saying i'm some big whatever but people struggle with stuff and we don't know what lies beneath and if we try to reach out to people then who knows what can happen. He later moved to another Canadian city so I hope things are better!

[pogi]

Suicide rates among youth have doubled in the last decade nationwide.  There are obviously lots of potential variables, but I think kids are becoming increasingly isolated from real human interaction, instead their social life is increasingly on-line where cyber bullying is rampant.  It is so much easier to be a jerk online.  Plus kids who are bullied can re-read hurtful comments over and over and over online (they don't go away) and collect them from different sources, which can paint a dreadful picture for an impressionable child who really cares about what other people think. I worry so much about my child who has albinism and how that might effect his social future with bullies. I know how mean kids can be to kids who look different.

[bsjkki]

14 minutes ago, pogi said:

Suicide rates among youth have doubled in the last decade nationwide.  There are obviously lots of potential variables, but I think kids are becoming increasingly isolated from real human interaction, instead their social life is increasingly on-line where cyber bullying is rampant.  It is so much easier to be a jerk online.  Plus kids who are bullied can re-read hurtful comments over and over and over online (they don't go away) and collect them from different sources, which can paint a dreadful picture for an impressionable child who really cares about what other people think. I worry so much about my child who has albinism and how that might effect his social future with bullies. I know how mean kids can be to kids who look different.

Valid concerns. I hope your child finds true friends and doesn't face bullies. It's so hard to tell who kids will make a target.  My autistic child faced far less bullying than my beautiful, smart and talented child.  She was also aware of every slight and snub while autism itself protects my other child because she is socially unaware. No Facebook or social media for my younger kids. It is not healthy for kids not to be able to leave social pressures behind at school and regroup at home.

[bluebell]

And so many kids have anxiety now it's crazy. I was in a stake leadership position at girls camp this year and we had dozens of girls who couldn't function because of it or who were on anxiety meds.  12 year olds.

So many girls could not sleep and were up with leaders every night until one or two in the morning, suffering from insomnia and unable to fall asleep without YouTube. It was a nightmare for the camp nurse especially.

[Hamba Tuhan]

22 hours ago, pogi said:

Suicide rates among youth have doubled in the last decade nationwide. 

I don't live in 'the nation', but things are the same here. From what I can tell, the entire developed world is in the midst of a youth mental health crisis. I keep hoping that at some point a few more people will start listening to those who are already pointing out what our current culture is doing to our kids, but in the meantime, we desperately need to help them.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[SteveO]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

And so many kids have anxiety now it's crazy. I was in a stake leadership position at girls camp this year and we had dozens of girls who couldn't function because of it or who were on anxiety meds.  12 year olds.

So many girls could not sleep and were up with leaders every night until one or two in the morning, suffering from insomnia and unable to fall asleep without YouTube. It was a nightmare for the camp nurse especially.

Its a good thing for those girls that stress peaks in the teenage years, and decreases as you age...

 

These kids are going to be wholly unfit for adulthood, take away those damn phones for starters

[Marginal Gains]

How does supporting an amicus brief in opposition to a gay couple who wanted a wedding cake show a new found sensitivity towards young members at risk of suicide? It’s like the Church has two separate departments who never talk to each other - one producing words and  the other determining actions.

[Tacenda]

18 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said:

How does supporting an amicus brief in opposition to a gay couple who wanted a wedding cake show a new found sensitivity towards young members at risk of suicide? It’s like the Church has two separate departments who never talk to each other - one producing words and  the other determining actions.

Agree, and add in the November policy and several quotes by church leaders through the years, then you have a recipe for disaster for LDS gay individuals feeling triggered. 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Tacenda

[Kenngo1969]

4 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

How does supporting an amicus brief in opposition to a gay couple who wanted a wedding cake show a new found sensitivity towards young members at risk of suicide? It’s like the Church has two separate departments who never talk to each other - one producing words and  the other determining actions.

Nope, no tip-toeing through the facts there!  

[rpn]

Quote

How does supporting an amicus brief in opposition to a gay couple who wanted a wedding cake show a new found sensitivity towards young members at risk of suicide? It’s like the Church has two separate departments who never talk to each other - one producing words and  the other determining actions.

Part of the problem is those who project that you have to support all gay causes including lifestyles or you are not christlike or loving to those who are gay.   When a gay member cannot see themselves as being able to live up to expectations,  THAT is what the problems.   Perhaps gays should quit telling kids that you can't be mormon or live the standards if you also have same gender attraction.   Perhaps gays should quit saying that following the commandments means rejecting who someone really is.   Perhaps gays should quit projecting that you aren't fully a person unless you act on your gayness and marry a partner and have a baby through surrogacy.   

Maybe if both members and the gay community could spend a lot more energy in telling kids that they can successfully and happily live in this world.   That all mortal struggles can be overcomed and/or dealt with.   That God loves all His children.

 

 

[california boy]

35 minutes ago, rpn said:

Part of the problem is those who project that you have to support all gay causes including lifestyles or you are not christlike or loving to those who are gay.   When a gay member cannot see themselves as being able to live up to expectations,  THAT is what the problems.   Perhaps gays should quit telling kids that you can't be mormon or live the standards if you also have same gender attraction.   Perhaps gays should quit saying that following the commandments means rejecting who someone really is.   Perhaps gays should quit projecting that you aren't fully a person unless you act on your gayness and marry a partner and have a baby through surrogacy.   

Maybe if both members and the gay community could spend a lot more energy in telling kids that they can successfully and happily live in this world.   That all mortal struggles can be overcomed and/or dealt with.   That God loves all His children.

 

 

Perhaps if it is such a healthy lifestyle to not get married and not find someone to share your life with and have a family, the church should be telling all youth to never get married.  

I personally have and will continue to tell every gay Mormon that I meet to get as far away from the Mormon church and find a life that is happy and fulfilling and full of joy and love.  That the same blessings and opportunities are available to them as any other person.  That God wants them to have all the blessings and happiness that everyone else is promised.  That forbidding to marry is wrong and against the plan of happiness they have been taught.  That they should look to God for answers and find out for themselves what the right path for them to take.  To not trust church leaders who have misled gay members in the past because of their insisted that they knew the will of God when they did not.

Healthy gays that have the same expectations and hopes and dreams as everyone else are not the ones committing suicide.  

[stemelbow]

9 hours ago, Duncan said:

I suspect its both, I think it's great the Church is doing this. be careful what you say and be sensitive to those who might be struggling. I recall maybe 2 years ago now? this new move in from another Canadian province came to our class and he said he had lost his business and in the space of maybe 30-40 minutes he mentioned suicide (not about himself necessarily) about 3-4 times. To me, that's a red flag. So, I talked to another person, who was in class, afterwards and we did this subtle plan to engage him and invite him to stuff, take him out to lunch etc. I am not saying i'm some big whatever but people struggle with stuff and we don't know what lies beneath and if we try to reach out to people then who knows what can happen. He later moved to another Canadian city so I hope things are better!

You are a big whatever.  There's nothing to be ashamed of🤗

Seriously though, good job.  

[RevTestament]

9 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Valid concerns. I hope your child finds true friends and doesn't face bullies. It's so hard to tell who kids will make a target.  My autistic child faced far less bullying than my beautiful, smart and talented child.  She was also aware of every slight and snub while autism itself protects my other child because she is socially unaware. No Facebook or social media for my younger kids. It is not healthy for kids not to be able to leave social pressures behind at school and regroup at home.

My youngest was kind of socially isolated until HS upper grades. We allowed him to use Facebook, and the internet, and ironically I think it helped him. He gained a circle of friends at school and a girl friend. I think these kids expect their friends to be on Facebook or whatever, so at a certain point, disallowing it may prove a challenge to their social life. We just kind of allowed it when they got old enough to earn a little money and get their own phone. That seemed to work for all of them. But yeah, we were definitely a little concerned about allowing them online wirelessly in their bedrooms, and made it a rule that internet usage had to be in the common area of the house, and had to be appropriate use. Taking their laptop away for a week or so seemed to be sufficient motivation to follow the rules.

[RevTestament]

9 hours ago, bluebell said:

And so many kids have anxiety now it's crazy. I was in a stake leadership position at girls camp this year and we had dozens of girls who couldn't function because of it or who were on anxiety meds.  12 year olds.

So many girls could not sleep and were up with leaders every night until one or two in the morning, suffering from insomnia and unable to fall asleep without YouTube. It was a nightmare for the camp nurse especially.

I have seen kids like this. When our kids went over to their house, they had to have the TV on to go to sleep, which kept our kids awake... Too many parents are using the TV and internet as baby sitters, and it is doing something to their kids' brains that is not good. Our boys all wanted the lights out and everything off to sleep(except our youngest who wanted a night light for awhile when he got his own room). Being socially wired at age 10 I think is too young - maybe give them a prepaid burner phone, but that's it. Our kids may have paid a little bit of a social cost for a little while not being in "the in" crowd, but they don't have anxiety attacks, can fall asleep easily, and all seem relatively happy, and that is a huge plus. Also when they seemed sullen we were sure to talk to them - and often it was a Facebook or similar popularity issue. We always stress just being yourself, and not worrying about any particular group. I can definitely see how Facebook, and other media "likes," "friending" etc, has exacerbated social stresses for kids.

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

I have seen kids like this. When our kids went over to their house, they had to have the TV on to go to sleep, which kept our kids awake... Too many parents are using the TV and internet as baby sitters, and it is doing something to their kids' brains that is not good. Our boys all wanted the lights out and everything off to sleep(except our youngest who wanted a night light for awhile when he got his own room). Being socially wired at age 10 I think is too young - maybe give them a prepaid burner phone, but that's it. Our kids may have paid a little bit of a social cost for a little while not being in "the in" crowd, but they don't have anxiety attacks, can fall asleep easily, and all seem relatively happy, and that is a huge plus. Also when they seemed sullen we were sure to talk to them - and often it was a Facebook or similar popularity issue. We always stress just being yourself, and not worrying about any particular group. I can definitely see how Facebook, and other media "likes," "friending" etc, has exacerbated social stresses for kids.

Something has definitely changed and kids are suffering from more mental disorders than they ever seemed to be.  When you have 9-11 year olds on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds and they otherwise have normal lives with regular stressors, it should cause us to worry.

[mapman]

Is anyone aware of studies of what  are the main causes of depression and anxiety in children these days? With people my age (college student), it seems like depression and anxiety are also higher now (as well as suicide), but it seems like it might have more to do with lack of hope in a happy, prosperous future than with social media or technology.

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, bluebell said:

And so many kids have anxiety now it's crazy. I was in a stake leadership position at girls camp this year and we had dozens of girls who couldn't function because of it or who were on anxiety meds.  12 year olds.

So many girls could not sleep and were up with leaders every night until one or two in the morning, suffering from insomnia and unable to fall asleep without YouTube. It was a nightmare for the camp nurse especially.

One of our Gui kids has suffered from severe anxiety disorder since he was a little kid. This has prevented him from doing simple things like driving a car, finishing a college class, sustaining relationships, holding down a job, going to church. At first we interpreted it as stubbornness and defiance, not figuring out that it was anxiety until late in the game. A number of things beyond our control contributed to his situation, but one thing we did not do well was protect him when his older brother became deeply involved with drugs and associated behaviors. We made the mistake of being so caught up in his drama that we somewhat neglected the needs of the younger boy. Patience, love, counseling, and medicine have helped, but we have had some rough times with rejection and anger. He has recently made some huge strides toward a healthy productive life. Many of his friends are also struggling. It's not fun.

[Kenngo1969]

California Boy:

Quote

Perhaps if it is such a healthy lifestyle to not get married and not find someone to share your life with and have a family, the church should be telling all youth to never get married.

Sometimes (relatively often, I would say) not getting married happens less by design than it happens by default, for both gay people and for straight people.  As much as I might like to be married and I might wish I were married, and as much as I might be tempted, mentally, to roll my eyes and to sigh at the next tale of celestially-wedded bliss I hear in a young couple’s testimony at Church or at the next address, lesson, or comment I hear on that subject, I don’t want the Church of Jesus Christ to stop preaching the ideal simply because I haven’t achieved it yet: If that were my standard, we’d have to cut out 90% of the things I hear in church period, let alone just the things I hear about celestial marriage.  

I’m not given to schadenfreude.  My first response upon hearing a tale from Someone Else Who is A Solitary Figure, Seemingly Sentenced to Singleness, is not to exult mentally, “Yessss! Someone else feels my pain!!!” Bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah!  Among the crosses I bear is that I happen to be a Confirmed Bachelor in a Church which places a high premium on marriage.  I can’t speak for anyone else (and of course, the degree of pain or discomfort any person feels in any given circumstance is likely to vary based on what other crosses that person happens to bear, on his other life experiences, on his attitude and outlook, and so on), but you know what?  If someone were to invite me, in the spirit of bearing my burdens that they may be light (see Mosiah 18), “Tell me about the crosses you bear,” and if the first thing I happen to mention is, “Well, I’m single, and the female of the species, collectively and in its entirety, ignores me,” I wouldn’t blame that person for being underwhelmed and saying (even if he’s polite enough to not say this in so many words), “Oh, is that all?  Cry me a river!”  

The truth is that, while being a Confirmed Bachelor in a family church is on my list of “issues,” it’s relatively far down that list.  I have a feeling that, if-and-when I am able to take care of some of the other issues on my list (though I cannot say when that might occur, if ever, at least, not in this life) the “marriage issue” will take care of itself.  As much as I’m tempted to ask, “Lord, why hast Thou dealt with me thus?” about various issues (among which being single long term is only one), I simply have to remind myself of two things: (1) God is a Sovereign; and (2) He loves me.  And His love for me is not contingent on what blessings He sees fit to bestow upon me or upon when He sees fit to bestow them.   

In fact, I’m not even given to schadenfreude for gay couples.  If someone were to ask me what the positions of the Church of Jesus Christ are with respect to chastity, fidelity, and marriage, and if he were to manifest an open mind and an open heart, along with a determination to not dismiss those positions out-of-hand (as unpopular as those positions are becoming in our allegedly-enlightened society), certainly, I would have a ready answer.  On the other hand, I cannot and would not force anyone else to accept my paradigm.  If he chooses to enter into a gay marriage, I would hope that he and his partner find long-term happiness (as foreign as such a prospect might be to my paradigm).  Yes, I could discourse at length on the prospect of that happening in the next life according to my paradigm, but, without a willing, ready, receptive audience, such discourse is unlikely to be effective. (I will not hesitate to impart Living Water to anyone who manifests a need and a desire for it, but trying to do so when such a desire is absent strikes me as the equivalent of attempting to impart Living Water through a fire hose set at full blast.)  

If a person I know to be gay were to manifest a desire to be faithful to the teachings of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and were to ask me about his prospects for happiness in this life, I would tell him that as important as marriage is, it is not a sin qua non for such happiness.  If he were to ask me about his lot in the life to come (and even if he were to tell me, “I won’t have any desire to be straight in the next life, either”) I would remind him that this is only the Second Act, that we don’t remember the First Act because of the veil of forgetfulness, and that the Third Act hasn’t happened yet.  Does he have a uniquely-tough row to hoe?  Perhaps, but the greater the tribulation faithfully endured, the greater the blessing that will result from such faithful endurance.  As I’ve said so many times before, if we’re faithful, the Omnipotent, Omniscient, All-Loving Lord of the Universe isn’t going to have to tell any of us (straight or gay), when we get to the next life, “I know you were expecting something more, or something better, or at least something different, and I know this means that it sucks to be you, but … sorry.  This is the best I could do.”  

Quote

I personally have and will continue to tell every gay Mormon that I meet to get as far away from the Mormon church and find a life that is happy and fulfilling and full of joy and love.

Your reasoning here is fallacious: Marriage is important, but it is not a sin qua non for happiness.  There are plenty of unhappy married people (both straight and gay) who, both for reasons having to do with marriage and for reasons having nothing to do with marriage, experience a lack of happiness, of fulfillment, of joy, and of love.  And there are plenty of unmarried people who experience an abundance of happiness, of fulfillment, of joy, and of love, their unmarried status notwithstanding.   And while you’re welcome to preach that message to anyone who will listen, I’m glad there are those, few though they may be, who won’t listen:.  I’m glad that Courtney and Michelle won’t listen:  http://www.ldsdaily.com/personal-lds-blog/splitting-sky-courtney-rachelle/.  I’m glad that Tom Christofferson won’t listen: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865688689/Gay-brother-of-Mormon-apostle-shares-his-spiritual-journey.html; https://www.amazon.com/That-We-May-One-Perspective-ebook/dp/B075DJ2WF6; and there are others, including some on this Board.  

I won't deny that it's a huge earthly sacrifice to ask someone who is gay to strive earnestly live, in full, the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.  If someone's perspective and priorities are such that he considers that to be too big of a sacrifice, and if he seeks (and even if he happens to find) earthly happiness elsewhere, more power to him: I cannot and will not demand that he accept my paradigm.  But, as I point out in my previous paragraph, gay marriage isn't a one-size-fits-all solution to the problems gays face.   

Quote

That the same blessings and opportunities are available to them as any other person.

True.  I have a sneaking suspicion that you and I would interpret that statement vastly differently, and/or that each of us would assess its implications differently, but, yes, that is a true statement.  Mortality’s only the Second Act: I would never tell anyone, “Well, if you’re going to get [happiness/joy/love/fulfillment/et cetera, ad infinitum] you’d better get it here and now, because this will be your only chance.”  In my opinion, that’s just as much one of Satan’s lies as, “You’ll never get any of those things” or "You'll never get any of those things if you don't get married" is.  

Quote

That God wants them to have all the blessings and happiness that everyone else is promised.

Again, that’s true, but that sneaking suspicion is back: Again, I think you and I would interpret that statement vastly differently, and/or that each of us would assess its implications differently, but yes, that is a true statement.  Again, mortality’s only the Second Act, and I would never tell anyone, “Well, if you’re going to get [happiness/joy/love/fulfillment/et cetera, ad infinitum], you’d better get it here and now, because this will be your only chance.”  Yes, perhaps gays do have a uniquely tough row to hoe, but that’s not the only circumstance which interferes with the attainment of all of those objectives.  It’s simply one in a very long list of mortality’s innumerable vicissitudes.

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, mapman said:

Is anyone aware of studies of what  are the main causes of depression and anxiety in children these days? With people my age (college student), it seems like depression and anxiety are also higher now (as well as suicide), but it seems like it might have more to do with lack of hope in a happy, prosperous future than with social media or technology.

Perhaps.  But I think being "over-connected" technologically and, correspondingly, being "under-connected" in the real world is huge factor in behavioral health, both for young people and for those who are not so young.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, california boy said:

Perhaps if it is such a healthy lifestyle to not get married and not find someone to share your life with and have a family, the church should be telling all youth to never get married.  .  

Since they tell the youth to marry only in the Church, they may not be telling all youth never to get married, but they are telling a good portion of the youth that may be the best choice for them in this lifetime.

I don't believe the Church is telling all self identified gay youth to never marry.  I suspect they see sexuality as more complex than just heterosexual or homosexual, though many (perhaps most leaders) only really examine this concept in terms of homosexuality.  I personally don't see how you can look at sexuality in past and current cultures all over the world and not take that position.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I have seen kids like this. When our kids went over to their house, they had to have the TV on to go to sleep, which kept our kids awake... Too many parents are using the TV and internet as baby sitters, and it is doing something to their kids' brains that is not good. Our boys all wanted the lights out and everything off to sleep(except our youngest who wanted a night light for awhile when he got his own room). Being socially wired at age 10 I think is too young - maybe give them a prepaid burner phone, but that's it. Our kids may have paid a little bit of a social cost for a little while not being in "the in" crowd, but they don't have anxiety attacks, can fall asleep easily, and all seem relatively happy, and that is a huge plus. Also when they seemed sullen we were sure to talk to them - and often it was a Facebook or similar popularity issue. We always stress just being yourself, and not worrying about any particular group. I can definitely see how Facebook, and other media "likes," "friending" etc, has exacerbated social stresses for kids.

When cultures are in periods of high flux, anxiety and depression flourish.  I tend to be a fan of English lit of stories from the late 1800s to right before WW II.  They are often full of tales of upperclass lost youth and young adults who don't know what they are supposed to be doing (and often end up doing nothing) and don't expect that putting effort into life will yield any results.  The culture of their parents was disappearing due to the lack of resources as well as the change in class structure because of technology.  This was reflected in political turmoil and uncertain, but massive power struggles.

We have a period of high culture change, with clashing between what was and what is and uncertainty of what is to come.  Add to that the extreme emotional nature of politics and it shouldn't be surprising that youth are having a hard time dealing with it.  What may be complicating this time period is an acceptance of emotional and mental instability (we have moved past telling people to grit their teeth and endure, stiff upper lip sort of thing), but still lack effective tools for healing available to most of our society.  So we have a much more public viewing of inner turmoil, but all that does is add to the sense of being overwhelmed and helpless as a society at this point.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Calm

[MorningStar]

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

And so many kids have anxiety now it's crazy. I was in a stake leadership position at girls camp this year and we had dozens of girls who couldn't function because of it or who were on anxiety meds.  12 year olds.

So many girls could not sleep and were up with leaders every night until one or two in the morning, suffering from insomnia and unable to fall asleep without YouTube. It was a nightmare for the camp nurse especially.

Wow, that's horrible!  

[Kenngo1969]

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

... So many girls could not sleep and were up with leaders every night until one or two in the morning, suffering from insomnia and unable to fall asleep without YouTube. It was a nightmare for the camp nurse especially.

This probably explains why I'll never be in any sort of a position to call these kinds of shots, but if I were, at the pre-camp orientation meeting several weeks in advance, I might say, "Insofar as possible [since some of us have to use technology constantly for work: I'm tethered to a phone sitting in front of a computer screen at work as I type this ], we're going on a technology fast.  You'd better taper off and wean yourselves down to nothing by the time we leave for camp ..."  

[CV75]

15 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Is this a reflection of a new sensitivity to the issue of suicide by  the church or do  you think suicide is a growing problem in the church or both? 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/work-together-reduce-suicide-depression

I think both. I'm sure suicide has always been a tragic an event in all ages of history for anyone involved and affected, but where it seems to be a growing societal and cultural problem (taking on a life of its own, so to speak) the Church is dutifully ministering accordingly.