Could the Church "Do" Christmas Better?

HappyJackWagon · December 24, 2015

This has been a somewhat frustrating Christmas season at church.

1- Our bishop banned all Christmas music in any ward meeting (sacrament, relief society, priesthood etc) until the Sunday before Christmas. Why? Because he wanted all of the music leading up to Christmas to be Christ centered. Hmmm....ok. Perhaps he doesn't understand what a Christmas Carole is.

2- Dec. 20th when Christmas music is now a part of church services we had an opening and closing Christmas Hymn. They were fine but not any of the famous, popular, usual hymns we would normally sing BUT there was a big musical program. NONE of the songs were Christmas songs. They were all Christ centered but not Christmassy. They intermixed short readings from Luke 2 but no Christmas talk all month.

3- Sunday School lessons for the past 3 weeks have all been about the apocalypse. We're studying the NT this year so it seems like a little advent/nativity lesson would be easy enough but the teacher is simply following the lesson manual so we don't get any Christmas in Sunday School.

4- Priesthood and Relief Society lessons have been about sustaining leaders and temple worship. All fine and good, but not Christmassy.

5- No Christmas Eve or Christmas day services or celebration.

6- Christmas Tree in the foyer finally went up last week to collect gift cards for the needy in the ward to be delivered sometime this week.

Thankfully we didn't have a repeat of years past when Joseph Smith was the center of the Sunday before Christmas because it fell on his birthday, but I think we can do better. Most of the things I listed are specific to my ward but I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a Christmas eve or Christmas day service to put the "mass" in Christmas. Tonight I'm taking my family to a Baptist service for some good Christmas music and a message. It's a shame I can't get that need filled at church.

Could we do better?

I hope you all have a wonderful and Merry Christmas!

Edited December 24, 2015 by HappyJackWagon

strappinglad · December 24, 2015

" pendulum swings like a pendulum do. " I recently attended a Christmas concert put on by my grand daughter's school . Of 18 'christmas' songs only one mentioned Christ. A lot of Christmas songs are provided in our hymnal, indicating that they are quite acceptable for use during any sacrament meeting.

Now , if you want " Jingle Bells " and " I saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus " in order to feel christmassy , go to a mall. :wacko:

JAHS · December 24, 2015

I think we do it pretty decently in my ward. We have a really nice Ward Christmas party during the week, with food, music and kids performing. On Sunday the ward choir sings and also the children sing Christmas songs. The talks are about Christmas and the birth and mission of Christ. But we don't do things all month long; just the week of Christmas. In my opinion we go to church to worship Christ; not to celebrate the holidays as the secular world does.

Robert F. Smith · December 24, 2015

10 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I think we do it pretty decently in my ward. We have a really nice Ward Christmas party during the week, with food, music and kids performing. On Sunday the ward choir sings and also the children sing Christmas songs. The talks are about Christmas and the birth and mission of Christ. But we don't do things all month long; just the week of Christmas. In my opinion we go to church to worship Christ; not to celebrate the holidays as the secular world does.

I can understand the anti-secular approach to some degree, but HappyJack's Grinch-bishop is clearly out of touch with reality. There are plenty of Christ-centered Xmas songs in the LDS Hymnal. Here in the center of Mormon country, the Provo-Orem area, we have been having Xmas at Church all month long, in addition to a ward Xmas party and huge Firesides with large choirs and Xmassy solo performances (instrumental and vocal). Plenty of groups have been going around giving gifts and caroling to selected households. I had a group of children come to my place just the other day in order to serenade me with Xmas songs and give a nice gift. That is the true spirit of Xmas, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Now, of course, Christ was not in fact born on December 25 (once the solstice in the Julian calendar, the birthday of the Sun-god), and Xmas should be celebrated at Jewish New Year, in the Fall -- when Christ was in fact born and the sheep were still in the fields. But we try to accommodate the pagan ways of the world to the extent possible, without outright adopting the dogma which goes along with it. We go along to get along.

HappyJackWagon · December 24, 2015

5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I can understand the anti-secular approach to some degree, but HappyJack's Grinch-bishop is clearly out of touch with reality. There are plenty of Christ-centered Xmas songs in the LDS Hymnal. Here in the center of Mormon country, the Provo-Orem area, we have been having Xmas at Church all month long, in addition to a ward Xmas party and huge Firesides with large choirs and Xmassy solo performances (instrumental and vocal). Plenty of groups have been going around giving gifts and caroling to selected households. I had a group of children come to my place just the other day in order to serenade me with Xmas songs and give a nice gift. That is the true spirit of Xmas, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Now, of course, Christ was not in fact born on December 25 (once the solstice in the Julian calendar, the birthday of the Sun-god), and Xmas should be celebrated at Jewish New Year, in the Fall -- when Christ was in fact born and the sheep were still in the fields. But we try to accommodate the pagan ways of the world to the extent possible, without outright adopting the dogma which goes along with it. We go along to get along.

Christmas caroles are all about the nativity so I agree, they're very appropriate to sing in church. One week of singing about the birth of Christ isn't sufficient. We spend more time throughout the year singing about following the prophet.

Robert F Smith, are you trying to start a controversy about the actual birthdate of Jesus?

Duncan · December 24, 2015

Our ward did okay this year, the annual Christmas party is always up and down, some are great some not so great but whatever, as long as no one spikes the eggnog (which I HATE) then it turns out spiffy. Sacrament mtg is always Christmas themed and what is more we do a community hymn sing with the local Catholic Church and I mean I don't participate but people seem to enjoy themselves

JLHPROF · December 24, 2015

1. Why do Church meetings need to be "Christmassy"? Christ wasn't even born in December. Church is already focused on Christ. What is Christmas actually about?

2. If you are working through a course of study I don't see why that should be interrupted to insert a random "Christmas" lesson.

3. I agree that Christmas Eve/Day services would be a nice thing for the Church to offer, however spending time with family is also important and members might feel obligated to attend yet another Church function instead of family time.

As a side note, I'm surprised we haven't had the annual complaint thread about "Smith-mas". Although I suppose the comment "Thankfully we didn't have a repeat of years past when Joseph Smith was the center of the Sunday before Christmas " is sufficiently cynical.

ETA - As Robert points out, December Christmas is just an attempt to harmonize paganism with Christianity. Perhaps this should go on Calm's thread on false traditions.

Edited December 24, 2015 by JLHPROF

Jeanne · December 24, 2015

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

This has been a somewhat frustrating Christmas season at church.

1- Our bishop banned all Christmas music in any ward meeting (sacrament, relief society, priesthood etc) until the Sunday before Christmas. Why? Because he wanted all of the music leading up to Christmas to be Christ centered. Hmmm....ok. Perhaps he doesn't understand what a Christmas Carole is.

2- Dec. 20th when Christmas music is now a part of church services we had an opening and closing Christmas Hymn. They were fine but not any of the famous, popular, usual hymns we would normally sing BUT there was a big musical program. NONE of the songs were Christmas songs. They were all Christ centered but not Christmassy. They intermixed short readings from Luke 2 but no Christmas talk all month.

3- Sunday School lessons for the past 3 weeks have all been about the apocalypse. We're studying the NT this year so it seems like a little advent/nativity lesson would be easy enough but the teacher is simply following the lesson manual so we don't get any Christmas in Sunday School.

4- Priesthood and Relief Society lessons have been about sustaining leaders and temple worship. All fine and good, but not Christmassy.

5- No Christmas Eve or Christmas day services or celebration.

6- Christmas Tree in the foyer finally went up last week to collect gift cards for the needy in the ward to be delivered sometime this week.

Thankfully we didn't have a repeat of years past when Joseph Smith was the center of the Sunday before Christmas because it fell on his birthday, but I think we can do better. Most of the things I listed are specific to my ward but I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a Christmas eve or Christmas day service to put the "mass" in Christmas. Tonight I'm taking my family to a Baptist service for some good Christmas music and a message. It's a shame I can't get that need filled at church.

Could we do better?

I hope you all have a wonderful and Merry Christmas!

You have a Merry Christmas too. Just call the Bishop..Bishop Eb..Ebenezer! :lol: He sounds so Bah..Humbug. When I was young, Christmas in the Ward was all we had in our little town to get the spirit..we started early!!!

HappyJackWagon · December 24, 2015

18 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

1. Why do Church meetings need to be "Christmassy"? Christ wasn't even born in December. Church is already focused on Christ. What is Christmas actually about?

2. If you are working through a course of study I don't see why that should be interrupted to insert a random "Christmas" lesson.

3. I agree that Christmas Eve/Day services would be a nice thing for the Church to offer, however spending time with family is also important and members might feel obligated to attend yet another Church function instead of family time.

As a side note, I'm surprised we haven't had the annual complaint thread about "Smith-mas". Although I suppose the comment "Thankfully we didn't have a repeat of years past when Joseph Smith was the center of the Sunday before Christmas " is sufficiently cynical.

ETA - As Robert points out, December Christmas is just an attempt to harmonize paganism with Christianity. Perhaps this should go on Calm's thread on false traditions.

Jesus' birth is a pretty big deal. Why not celebrate it? When else do we ever focus on his birth? Just about never. So having some focus during the traditional Christmas season doesn't seem like too much to ask.

Regarding the lesson timing, why not schedule lessons about Christ's birth around December? This would be easy enough to do.

Jeanne · December 24, 2015

I was a chorister and at the piano alot..our practice songs were Christmas songs from thy hymnal.

Avatar4321 · December 24, 2015

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

This has been a somewhat frustrating Christmas season at church.

1- Our bishop banned all Christmas music in any ward meeting (sacrament, relief society, priesthood etc) until the Sunday before Christmas. Why? Because he wanted all of the music leading up to Christmas to be Christ centered. Hmmm....ok. Perhaps he doesn't understand what a Christmas Carole is.

2- Dec. 20th when Christmas music is now a part of church services we had an opening and closing Christmas Hymn. They were fine but not any of the famous, popular, usual hymns we would normally sing BUT there was a big musical program. NONE of the songs were Christmas songs. They were all Christ centered but not Christmassy. They intermixed short readings from Luke 2 but no Christmas talk all month.

3- Sunday School lessons for the past 3 weeks have all been about the apocalypse. We're studying the NT this year so it seems like a little advent/nativity lesson would be easy enough but the teacher is simply following the lesson manual so we don't get any Christmas in Sunday School.

4- Priesthood and Relief Society lessons have been about sustaining leaders and temple worship. All fine and good, but not Christmassy.

5- No Christmas Eve or Christmas day services or celebration.

6- Christmas Tree in the foyer finally went up last week to collect gift cards for the needy in the ward to be delivered sometime this week.

Thankfully we didn't have a repeat of years past when Joseph Smith was the center of the Sunday before Christmas because it fell on his birthday, but I think we can do better. Most of the things I listed are specific to my ward but I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a Christmas eve or Christmas day service to put the "mass" in Christmas. Tonight I'm taking my family to a Baptist service for some good Christmas music and a message. It's a shame I can't get that need filled at church.

Could we do better?

I hope you all have a wonderful and Merry Christmas!

How were your priesthood lessons different than the manuals?

I rather like the church encouraging families to make their own traditions for Christmas

HappyJackWagon · December 24, 2015

5 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

How were your priesthood lessons different than the manuals?

It's easy to pick out one particular topic from a lesson and focus on that. It's not hard to imagine how a lesson on "Strengthening the Stakes of Zion" or "Carring the Gospel to the World" could turn into a "Sustain the leaders" lesson, is it? It seems most everything turns into that.

Deborah · December 24, 2015

Our ward Sacrament meeting was a Christmas program last Sunday. So was primary. Both singing lots of Christmas carols. I think it depends on the ward but I've never heard of a ward saying no Christmas carols. We sing them all month long. And of course in this area we have the Mormon Tabernacle Choir Christmas program.

rongo · December 24, 2015

You won't ever make everyone happy. Our stake has swung heavily to the "Evening in Bethlehem" ward party (people come dressed in robes, sit on the gym floor, and eat pita bread, olives, and grape juice). The "reason for the season," and all that. I hate parties like that, but most wards in our stake did that. I was called in May, and we had a realignment that gave us 62 members from another ward. They had heard that our ward didn't do Santa (which has been the case for years), and I told them that we will now that I'm in this ward. We had a nice dinner (five turkeys, five hams, sides and desserts), and Santa came for the 120 kids. Almost everyone loved it, except for two members (who have complained) who weren't happy with Santa and would have preferred the religious party that kids hate.

As I explained to a concerned new member (concerned that their new ward was that type of ward), it isn't "either/or" (either "the reason for the season," or pagan cultural Christmas). I don't think they're mutually-exclusive, and in fact, the "magic" of Christmas comes from the pagan cultural stuff, not the religious. And having fun with the magic doesn't mean that you're not focusing on the "reason for the season."

Plus, our Christmas program was very religious, with a lot of music --- centered around the birth, life, and meaning of Christ. For those who want a religious-themed party, I think they're projecting the purpose of the Christmas sacrament meeting program.

Do you guys notice a shift among a sizeable number of members towards consciously trying to downplay the magical cultural aspects to try to focus, Puritan-like, on the religious? I have definitely noticed a trend among LDS in this direction, although this may be anecdotal and regional.

Scott Lloyd · December 24, 2015

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

This has been a somewhat frustrating Christmas season at church.

1- Our bishop banned all Christmas music in any ward meeting (sacrament, relief society, priesthood etc) until the Sunday before Christmas. Why? Because he wanted all of the music leading up to Christmas to be Christ centered. Hmmm....ok. Perhaps he doesn't understand what a Christmas Carole is.

2- Dec. 20th when Christmas music is now a part of church services we had an opening and closing Christmas Hymn. They were fine but not any of the famous, popular, usual hymns we would normally sing BUT there was a big musical program. NONE of the songs were Christmas songs. They were all Christ centered but not Christmassy. They intermixed short readings from Luke 2 but no Christmas talk all month.

3- Sunday School lessons for the past 3 weeks have all been about the apocalypse. We're studying the NT this year so it seems like a little advent/nativity lesson would be easy enough but the teacher is simply following the lesson manual so we don't get any Christmas in Sunday School.

4- Priesthood and Relief Society lessons have been about sustaining leaders and temple worship. All fine and good, but not Christmassy.

5- No Christmas Eve or Christmas day services or celebration.

6- Christmas Tree in the foyer finally went up last week to collect gift cards for the needy in the ward to be delivered sometime this week.

Thankfully we didn't have a repeat of years past when Joseph Smith was the center of the Sunday before Christmas because it fell on his birthday, but I think we can do better. Most of the things I listed are specific to my ward but I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a Christmas eve or Christmas day service to put the "mass" in Christmas. Tonight I'm taking my family to a Baptist service for some good Christmas music and a message. It's a shame I can't get that need filled at church.

Could we do better?

I hope you all have a wonderful and Merry Christmas!

As to your first couple of points, I think your bishop is an idiot. People love singing sacred Christmas songs at Christmas time, and if Christmas is not Christ-centered, I don't know what is.

Also, there needs to be a generous share of familiar Christmas hymns in the mix, as that evokes warm feelings among the members of the congregation.

But I've never been in a ward where the entire meeting the Sunday before Christmas has been devoted to Joseph Smith. I think that is extremely rare when it happens at all.

And there's no imperative that the meeting before Christmas be a musical program I am Ward choir director This year our choir sang one selection; last year two. The rest of the time was occupied by competent speakers (and a trio of young women this year) and the meeting was very appropriate and edifying

So you shouldn't impute the quirky behavior of your local leadership to the entire Church and say "the Church" needs to "do Christmas better" based on the weird things that go on in your ward.

Finally, Christmas Eve or Christmas Day services have never been a part of the Mormon tradition, and it's not self-evident to me that they need to be. There's plenty of opportunity to observe the birth of Christ at church without introducing more structure to cut into family time.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

volgadon · December 24, 2015

have your bishop read from the History of the Church for December 24, 1843. If that isn't a ringing endorsement for singing Christmas carols, then I don't know what is.

Hamba Tuhan · December 24, 2015

My ward this year:

We started singing Christmas carols in sacrament meeting and priesthood opening exercises back in November and will continue, if tradition holds, into January.
Our ward Christmas party was held the first weekend in December and involved a spit-roasted pig and lamb, potluck sides, plenty of games and activities for the kids (we were at a member's farm, and he has a dam), singing to guitar, sketches, and Father Christmas with gifts for the little ones.
Our stake combined the Christmas Devotional broadcast with a carol singalong, Christmas tree display, and light supper (biscuits, cake, and fruit).
All three talks in sacrament meeting this week were on Christmas, and the musical item (father and daughter accompanied by guitar) was a Christmas carol.
Three dozen of us (including our full-time missionaries) went carolling for four hours after church last Sunday. We visited a mix of the elderly, less-active members, investigators, former investigators, and one grieving family.
I volunteered to be in charge of our ward's Christmas Day service this year, and I just finished writing out the script. I probably should run print it off since the service starts in about two hours. The theme I chose for this year is 'Come to give us second birth', and the program is about 45 minutes in length as planned, with a heavy emphasis on singing stitched together with some narration and one video clip. We'll also have a single testimony at the end.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Hamba Tuhan

Traela · December 24, 2015

Let me guess: your bishop is the type who self-righteously refuses to do anything for Easter, "because we remember the Atonemnt every week during the Sacrament." :rolleyes:

Scott Lloyd · December 24, 2015

8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

My ward this year:

We started singing Christmas carols in sacrament meeting and priesthood opening exercises back in November and will continue, if tradition holds, into January.

Our ward Christmas party was held the first weekend in December and involved a spit-roasted pig and lamb, potluck sides, plenty of games and activities for the kids (we were at a member's farm, and he has a dam), singing to guitar, sketches, and Father Christmas with gifts for the little ones.

Our stake combined the Christmas Devotional broadcast with a carol singalong, Christmas tree display, and light supper (biscuits, cake, and fruit).

All three talks in sacrament meeting this week were on Christmas.

Three dozen of us (including our full-time missionaries) went carolling for four hours after church last Sunday. We visited a mix of the elderly, less-active members, investigators, former investigators, and one grieving family.

I volunteered to be in charge of our ward's Christmas Day service this year, and I just finished writing out the script. I probably should run print it off since the service starts in about two hours. The theme I chose for this year is 'Come to give us second birth', and the program is about 45 minutes in length as planned, with a heavy emphasis on singing stitched together with some narration and one video clip. We'll also have a single testimony at the end.

This is the first I've heard of a ward having a Christmas Day service in a year when Christmas doesn't fall on a Sunday. It strikes me as non-standard. I would hope attendance is optional.

I could see doing it in lieu of a ward Christmas party, which many wards have.

The caroling activity is a great thing. Our ward missionaries spearheaded that last year and this year.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

Zakuska · December 24, 2015

36 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As to your first couple of points, I think your bishop is an idiot.

Who are you and what have you done to the poster "Scott Lloyd"!

I never thought I'd see the day when Scott would ever say anything disparaging about a church Leader.

BlueDreams · December 24, 2015

It's probably dependent on the ward. I can't say much for my ysa for obvious reasons (ysa's become non-existent by Xmas). My ward/stake down at my parents have pulled off some bigger event surrounding Xmas, including a multi faith crèche open to the public for a couple of days. I Also remember one massive church day on the rare occasion of a Churh day landing on Xmas. The lessons can sometimes feel particularly out of synch in Sunday school. But honestly I don't mind that much. This year I've been so saturated with other church Xmas events that I could care less about the Sunday lessons...including 2 Xmas firesides, the Xmas presidency devotional, and the MoTab concert. Most of the songs have been Christmas, but some weren't. But I don't mind the balance. Christmas becomes a family holiday and leaves space for me to enjoy other faith celebrations if I choose (a few times I've gone to midnight mass behind my house). Plus I don't have to get dressed and can chill for the rest the day.

I would be terribly annoyed by your bishop's decisions. Xmas hymns are my favorite and we only really do them once a year. I hope he doesn't do that for the next. But I don't see that as an overall trend in the rest of the church. much of it loves Christmas and has a balance that I don't mind.

With luv,

bd

Hamba Tuhan · December 24, 2015

20 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is the first I've heard of a ward having a Christmas Day service in a year when Christmas doesn't fall on a Sunday. It strikes me as non-standard. I would hope attendance is optional.

It has a long tradition in our ward, and attendance is, of course, optional. Our current bishop (called earlier this year), is not a fan personally, and I've never seen him attend in the past, but when it was raised in ward council a month ago, he gladly endorsed the holding of it and accepted my offer to be in charge (including presiding). It has been announced in ward meetings all month. It's an important event each year for a number of families in the ward, and of course for a number of us singles. I've become a big fan myself. It's good to be with ward family on such a day. We intentionally keep things short so that those who want to can head other places, but about half of the attendees usually spend a good hour or so afterward just chatting, letting the kids play in the courtyard, etc. In addition, we often get walk-ins from off the street. I hope that happens this year!

Traela · December 24, 2015

18 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

It has a long tradition in our ward, and attendance is, of course, optional. Our current bishop (called earlier this year), is not a fan personally, and I've never seen him attend in the past, but when it was raised in ward council a month ago, he gladly endorsed the holding of it and accepted my offer to be in charge (including presiding). It has been announced in ward meetings all month. It's an important event each year for a number of families in the ward, and of course for a number of us singles. I've become a big fan myself. It's good to be with ward family on such a day. We intentionally keep things short so that those who want to can head other places, but about half of the attendees usually spend a good hour or so afterward just chatting, letting the kids play in the courtyard, etc. In addition, we often get walk-ins from off the street. I hope that happens this year!

That sounds lovely. I always enjoy it when Christmas or Christmas Eve lands on a Sunday.

consiglieri · December 24, 2015

Twenty years ago I was able to induce my bishop to hold a special Christmas Eve service in the ward chapel.

It was a one-time thing.

But very memorable.

Robert F. Smith · December 24, 2015

4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

.....................................................................

Robert F Smith, are you trying to start a controversy about the actual birthdate of Jesus?

No, not at all. It's an old controversy, in which pagan celebrations were subsumed by the triumphant Christian Church (the Saturnalia, the Yuletide, Easter, etc.). The Puritans famously banned Christmas.

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