Could the Church "Do" Christmas Better?

[Stargazer]

On 12/26/2015 at 9:05 AM, rongo said:

Here are my thoughts on employer policies against accepting tips:

When I was new on my mission and people insisted on paying for a Book of Mormon (this really happened, multiple times), I would argue with them and insist that we couldn't accept it. My second companion, a native German, wisely taught me to graciously accept it after my initial "turning it down" was rebuffed. They were trying to be nice, it would offend them, and they were more likely to read it if they paid for it, anyway. Donate it to fast offerings . . .

When I was first married, I rented motor homes to German-speaking tourists and showed them how to operate everything. Sometimes, people offered outrageous tips (like $50 dollar bills), and I would explain that I wasn't allowed to accept it. When they inevitably replied, "Nonsense!", I gracious accepted it and sincerely thanked them for their kindness and generosity. Continuing to argue with them and not accept it would have been offensive.

Businesses have to have a policy against accepting tips in order not to foster a real or perceived expectation of tipping. I'm confident, though, that reasonable bosses would understand about customers who are insistent about the tip and want to do something nice. Like many things in life, there is a balance between the overt policy and using good judgment and Feingefühl.

I'm confident that we didn't get the Walmart cashier in trouble, and she was very touched and grateful. The lines were a zoo!

In Germany, my companion and I were going door to door and getting politely rebuffed at every turn.  Perfectly normal!  We finished a particular cul-de-sac and were walking back up the street when one of the men who had just politely rebuffed us drove past, stopped and stuck his hand out of his window with a 20 Mark note.  We recoiled wordlessly at this and both of us raised our hands palm out as if to say "We're not taking that".  He then stuck his hand out even further and said "Nehmen Sie!  Nehmen Sie!  Nehmen Sie!"  ("Take it!" x 3)  And so we took it and off he drove.  Most people said they weren't interested when we rang their doorbells, but as I recall, he was one of those who said he had no time.  Apparently he was in a genuine hurry.  We were a bit bemused at this, and I think we used the money to buy food.

At the time a 20 Mark note was worth about $10, so it wasn't like he was paying his tithing or anything, but it only just occurred to me that we should have taken note of his house and visited him again when he wasn't in a hurry!  Maybe he was paying us to come back?  I don't know.  

[rongo]

How many permutations of the ward Christmas party are there? What are some of the stranger ones you've encountered?

I've seen . . .

---- nice dinner only

---- nice dinner with Santa Claus for the kids

---- nice dinner with music/program

---- a dance

---- "night in Bethlehem" (not a fan)

---- ward breakfast (seems to me to be an attempt to have one with minimal effort. These are not well-attended).

---- birthday party for Joseph Smith (I find this weird)

[bluebell]

Our ward does a breakfast and it's just as much work as a regular Christmas party and just as well attended.  I'm not personally a fan though.

My parents' ward does a ward breakfast complete with Santa. They also do an adults only fancy Christmas dinner where certain people are asked to "host" a table. They are in charge of decorating the table and they bring their fancy dishes and China and appetizers.  The church provides the rest of the food and a few young men and women will act as waiters.  

It's also very well attended. 

[BookofMormonLuvr]

To the lead question from the title:

Yes, by abandoning it and keeping the Seven Appointed Times actually given by the LORD in His word.

[Bernard Gui]

The Gui family Christmas....

Sister Gui participated in her elementary school parties and service projects...food drive and parents night out, and her lit club presented a special Downton Abbey Christmas Gala Dinner with formal costume dress, English Christmas dishes, and a real English speaking butler in tails.

Bernard performed in seven Christmas concerts with Pacific Lutheran Symphony and Choirs in Tacoma, Portland, and Seattle.

Bernard directed and played with his college orchestra winter concert featuring sacred, classical, and secular Christmas music.

Bernard, son Abogado, and grand-daughter Belissima performed in the orchestra for Belvue Stake annual sing-along Messiah. Sister Gui and other family members sang in choir.

Bernard and Sister Gui volunteered at annual Elks Club food distribution to needy families.

Bernard and Sister Gui attended and performed at the Tacoma Stake Festival of Nativities which was spectacular...the best by far we have ever seen. It was truly magnificent. 

All the Guis in the area (9 adults, 11 kids) gathered starting at noon for Christmas Eve dinner, family string quartet music and Polish carols, nativity re-enactment and scripture reading, and gift sharing. Sister Gui and son Abogado prepared 8 of the 12 traditional Polish Christmas dishes. 

Our ward sang Christmas carols all month in sacrament meeting, the youth caroled and gave gifts to selected members, the ward produced an elaborate Christmas party with kid photos taken with Santa by Bernard, lots of food, singing, music, a program telling the nativity story with costumed characters and all the children putting symbolic ornaments on the Christmas tree, and a bishop message, and then a sacrament service with carols, talks, choir accompanied by flute and Bernard on the violin.

Christmas day, Bernard and Sister Gui visited all the Gui families in the area to deliver gifts and have Christmas dinner with son Abogado and his family.

Unfortunately, a family emergency prevented us from attending the First Presidency Christmas program this year.

 The Guis traditionally attend Christmas Eve midnight mass at the Polish Catholic Church in Tacoma, but this year we were just too pooped.

I don't know how much more Christmas we could have done, but there certainly was not a dearth of opportunities in and out of the Church. I reckon like us, everyone has a myriad of choices with which to build their wonderful Christmas traditions.

Merry Christmas!

Edited December 30, 2015 by Bernard Gui

[Scott Lloyd]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

The Gui family Christmas....

Sister Gui participated in her elementary school parties and service projects...food drive and parents night out, and her lit club presented a special Downton Abbey Christmas Gala Dinner with formal costume dress, English Christmas dishes, and a real English speaking butler in tails.

Bernard performed in seven Christmas concerts with Pacific Lutheran Symphony and Choirs in Tacoma, Portland, and Seattle.

Bernard directed and played with his college orchestra winter concert featuring sacred, classical, and secular Christmas music.

Bernard, son Abogado, and grand-daughter Belissima performed in the orchestra for Belvue Stake annual sing-along Messiah. Sister Gui and other family members sang in choir.

Bernard and Sister Gui volunteered at annual Elks Club food distribution to needy families.

Bernard and Sister Gui attended and performed at the Tacoma Stake Festival of Nativities which was spectacular...the best by far we have ever seen. It was truly magnificent. 

All the Guis in the area (9 adults, 11 kids) gathered starting at noon for Christmas Eve dinner, family string quartet music and Polish carols, nativity re-enactment and scripture reading, and gift sharing. Sister Gui and son Abogado prepared 8 of the 12 traditional Polish Christmas dishes. 

Our ward sang Christmas carols all month in sacrament meeting, the youth caroled and gave gifts to selected members, the ward produced an elaborate Christmas party with kid photos taken with Santa by Bernard, lots of food, singing, music, a program telling the nativity story with costumed characters and all the children putting symbolic ornaments on the Christmas tree, and a bishop message, and then a sacrament service with carols, talks, choir accompanied by flute and Bernard on the violin.

Christmas day, Bernard and Sister Gui visited all the Gui families in the area to deliver gifts and have Christmas dinner with son Abogado and his family.

Unfortunately, a family emergency prevented us from attending the First Presidency Christmas program this year.

 The Guis traditionally attend Christmas Eve midnight mass at the Polish Catholic Church in Tacoma, but this year we were just too pooped.

I don't know how much more Christmas we could have done, but there certainly was not a dearth of opportunities in and out of the Church. I reckon like us, everyone has a myriad of choices with which to build their wonderful Christmas traditions.

Merry Christmas!

Two days before they were to go to Sweden, our missionary son's group received word their visas had been delayed and that they were being temporarily reassigned to far-flung missions throughout in the United States. Our son ended up in the Washington Vancouver Mission, where he spent six weeks waiting for the next transfer cycle in the Sweden Stockholm Mission.

I've wondered whether, had he spent more time in the Pacific Northwest, he might have encountered the Gui family.

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Rain]

I love ward breakfasts, both when I was activities chairman and now that I just attend. They can be just as much work and in my wards they have been better attended - because there are fewer conflicts of time with other events. EVERY evening Christmas party our ward has had in my adult life had another conflict or two where I had to choose between them. Never a problem with the morning  ones. 

[BookofMormonLuvr]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Two days before they were to go to Sweden, our missionary son's group received word their visas had been delayed and that they were being temporarily reassigned to far-flung missions throughout in the United States. Our son ended up in the Washington Vancouver Mission, where he spent six weeks waiting for the next transfer cycle in the Sweden Stockholm Mission.

I've wondered whether, had he spent more time in the Pacific Northwest, he might have encountered the Gui family.

 

Judging by the cities named he would've had to have been up in the Puget Sound (Seattle) area- Vancouver Mission is too far south. 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, BookofMormonLuvr said:

Judging by the cities named he would've had to have been up in the Puget Sound (Seattle) area- Vancouver Mission is too far south. 

 

But it appears that Bernard got down into Portland over the holidays.

 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But it appears that Bernard got down into Portland over the holidays.

 

Pacific Lutheran University is in Tacoma, but they have strong alumni in Portland and Seattle...so they do 2 run-out Christmas concerts to those cities both as a service to the alums and as fund raisers.

The concert will be broadcast on Oregon Public Television....we did 2 taping sessions. It is quite a good school for music. So, Vancouver is too far south....we are in the Tacoma area. Our oldest son

served in Sweden. It was a difficult mission, but very rewarding.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Bernard Gui

[HappyJackWagon]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 0:00 AM, why me said:

I think that the problem is in your tittle. For some reason, when a member has a problem in the ward, it suddenly becomes a church problem. I think that it is more of a ward problem, at least in your case. Why generalize a world wide church with your ward? I think that many wards have a Christmas celebration complete with music. It is up to the music director, the bishop etc but mainly with the person who chooses the music. Also, it is a world wide church. Is there any instructions as to when Christmas should be sung? One week before Christmas, two weeks before Christmas etc? I don't think so but I could be wrong.

I guess I am wondering why you titled your OP 'could the church do better' as if the problem is in salt lake and not in your home ward.

*Bolded the question I'm going to answer.

The obvious answer to anyone who read the OP is that there are things done at both the local and general level that indicates to me that the church could focus better on Christmas. That's why I gave examples of both. It's a problem with both. Please re-read to see the ways in which the general church contributes to a lack of Christmas focus at Christmas.

To those who have said the church doesn't want to create yet another meeting for families to attend during the holidays- I get that. I don't want to attend any more meetings either but I wouldn't mind attending a Christmas worship service. The term "meeting" is terrible. I'd also note that if there is such a huge lack of interest in attending a Christmas worship within our church there may be a way we could make the worship service more meaningful. Perhaps if there is no demand for it there is a problem with the perceived product of yet another meeting.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

*Bolded the question I'm going to answer.

The obvious answer to anyone who read the OP is that there are things done at both the local and general level that indicates to me that the church could focus better on Christmas. That's why I gave examples of both. It's a problem with both. Please re-read to see the ways in which the general church contributes to a lack of Christmas focus at Christmas.

To those who have said the church doesn't want to create yet another meeting for families to attend during the holidays- I get that. I don't want to attend any more meetings either but I wouldn't mind attending a Christmas worship service. The term "meeting" is terrible. I'd also note that if there is such a huge lack of interest in attending a Christmas worship within our church there may be a way we could make the worship service more meaningful. Perhaps if there is no demand for it there is a problem with the perceived product of yet another meeting.

If some don't like the content of Church meetings now, I really doubt that scheduling another meeting on Christmas Day and calling it something else is going to solve their problem. 

If you really need ecclesiastical entertainment on Dec. 25, attend one of the Catholic or Protestant services in your area. 

[HappyJackWagon]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If some don't like the content of Church meetings now, I really doubt that scheduling another meeting on Christmas Day and calling it something else is going to solve their problem. 

If you really need ecclesiastical entertainment on Dec. 25, attend one of the Catholic or Protestant services in your area. 

This is my point. People from many other traditions look forward to Christmas worship. In our church it would likely be seen as something to be avoided. I'm asking why so many people would prefer avoiding a Christmas worship. Does it reflect on the content of the typical meeting?

 

[Rain]

51 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

This is my point. People from many other traditions look forward to Christmas worship. In our church it would likely be seen as something to be avoided. I'm asking why so many people would prefer avoiding a Christmas worship. Does it reflect on the content of the typical meeting?

 

Perhaps it reflects that need has already been filled for many people within their home, as happens at my home - a sacred time for us.  If it comes down from the church then church leadership will feel like they need to be a part of it, which takes them away from their home.  Better to have it like it does for Hamba.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Rain

[mnn727]

On 12/24/2015 at 10:59 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

One week of singing about the birth of Christ isn't sufficient.

In your opinion. Our ward spends the whole month singing Christmas Hymns, which to me is WAY too much.

Coming from a Protestant background, I would like to see a Christmas program on Christmas or Christmas Eve though.

We had one Bishop a few years back that the entire Sacrament meeting before Christmas (after the Sacrament was passed) was singing Christmas songs - I enjoyed that.

 

And don't even get me started on Patriotic Hymns..................

[Walden]

I remember one Christmas in the area I was raised in, our ward decided to invite the rest of the church communities in the area to donate Nativity decorations to be displayed in the cultural hall. It felt much of like a community outreach effort. Essentially, the cultural hall was filled with rows of tables decorated with those desk-top sized Nativity scenes, the ones with the small statues of of baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, assorted barn animals and the three wise men. The church then opened up the cultural hall to the community a few nights prior to Christmas so that the community could come and look at all of the different Nativity scenes. I remember being struck by the wide variety of different Nativity scene interpretations. There were the classic scenes with porcelain statues in lifelike detail, there were wooden sets with rather abstract interpretations of the Nativity participants, and there were some obviously homemade-looking sets that appeared almost comical, but many of the sets had been acquired by owners from around the world during their travels and displayed an array of cultural interpretations of the Nativity scene. I thought that it was a rather enlightening and mind-opening experience to see the variety of interpretations of the Nativity, and I saw more outsiders visit our church over those two weeks than I ever had.

We only did that one year. Plans to do the display on an annual basis were thwarted by some members of our ward and the ward we shared a building with who argued that the Nativity scenes did not properly reflect the reverence of the Nativity. It's not that any of the scenes displayed were blasphemous, but like I said, they reflected the cultures that they came from (one from Africa had baby Jesus and all the participants portrayed as black, one from Mexico had the Nativity participants created from corn leaves, etc.). To some in our ward, this was blasphemy.

[mnn727]

On 12/26/2015 at 9:15 PM, VideoGameJunkie said:

Retail employees aren't allowed to accept cash gifts, but the thought is nice.

It depends on the store's policy -- there is nothing illegal about it (although they are supposed to declare it on their taxes).

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Does it reflect on the content of the typical meeting?

 

I think it reflects the nature of our church services.

If the church were to try to do a church-wide Christmas/eve service, that would mean using the stake center for a lot of areas (the only building big enough to fit all the wards that would be attending at the same time), or at the very least setting up a whole bunch of chairs in cultural hall (or both, as in most of the stakes i've been a member of).  People would be assigned talks, there would have to be ushers and parking attendants for a lot of stakes (just like at any regular stake conference).  Those who have building security as their calling would have to make sure every light was off and every door locked after it was all over (which for a Christmas Eve service would mean going to or staying at the church until fairly late).  Plus, because children, even infants, come to our church services that would bring a whole different level of difficulty for those parents who hardly get anything out of regular sacrament meetings because of having to deal with loud and crying babies.

In a church where the members take care of everything as volunteers, all that extra work to hear a couple stake conference type talks on Christmas or Christ might be a hard pill to swallow.  After all, there are thousands of talks about Christmas and Christ, including videos, available for us to listen to from our own homes, surrounded by family.  In our church, everything that can be gained by a special Christmas/eve service at church could be gained in our homes.  Knowing that, i'm not surprised that church leadership has allowed us to handle that particular worship service ourselves.

[HappyJackWagon]

57 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think it reflects the nature of our church services.

If the church were to try to do a church-wide Christmas/eve service, that would mean using the stake center for a lot of areas (the only building big enough to fit all the wards that would be attending at the same time), or at the very least setting up a whole bunch of chairs in cultural hall (or both, as in most of the stakes i've been a member of).  People would be assigned talks, there would have to be ushers and parking attendants for a lot of stakes (just like at any regular stake conference).  Those who have building security as their calling would have to make sure every light was off and every door locked after it was all over (which for a Christmas Eve service would mean going to or staying at the church until fairly late).  Plus, because children, even infants, come to our church services that would bring a whole different level of difficulty for those parents who hardly get anything out of regular sacrament meetings because of having to deal with loud and crying babies.

In a church where the members take care of everything as volunteers, all that extra work to hear a couple stake conference type talks on Christmas or Christ might be a hard pill to swallow.  After all, there are thousands of talks about Christmas and Christ, including videos, available for us to listen to from our own homes, surrounded by family.  In our church, everything that can be gained by a special Christmas/eve service at church could be gained in our homes.  Knowing that, i'm not surprised that church leadership has allowed us to handle that particular worship service ourselves.

I agree. I find it a bit unfortunate that as a church we seem to have a very specific/narrow view of what it means to worship in a meeting style environment. This is part of what prompted my original post. I think it would be great to bust out of the mundane and be a little more creative.

I took my family to a Christmas Eve service at a Baptist church. It was very well done. Excellent music. A very thoughtful talk from the pastor. A group candle lighting. All of this was done in under 1 hour. It was an excellent experience for my entire family. I find it unfortunate that there is nothing comparable in our church.

 

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I find it unfortunate that there is nothing comparable in our church.

 

I'm not sure i understand why it's unfortunate.  It sounds like a fun time and lovely, but I'm not sure what purpose it serves.  I had a fun and lovely time at home with my family on Christmas Eve.

[Deborah]

I think it is enough to be able to spend time with family on Christmas. Who needs another meeting and why should those who have to put it on have to have their time taken from their families. We do plenty of Christmas celebrating before Christmas.

[Rain]

11 hours ago, Walden said:

I remember one Christmas in the area I was raised in, our ward decided to invite the rest of the church communities in the area to donate Nativity decorations to be displayed in the cultural hall. It felt much of like a community outreach effort. Essentially, the cultural hall was filled with rows of tables decorated with those desk-top sized Nativity scenes, the ones with the small statues of of baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, assorted barn animals and the three wise men. The church then opened up the cultural hall to the community a few nights prior to Christmas so that the community could come and look at all of the different Nativity scenes. I remember being struck by the wide variety of different Nativity scene interpretations. There were the classic scenes with porcelain statues in lifelike detail, there were wooden sets with rather abstract interpretations of the Nativity participants, and there were some obviously homemade-looking sets that appeared almost comical, but many of the sets had been acquired by owners from around the world during their travels and displayed an array of cultural interpretations of the Nativity scene. I thought that it was a rather enlightening and mind-opening experience to see the variety of interpretations of the Nativity, and I saw more outsiders visit our church over those two weeks than I ever had.

We only did that one year. Plans to do the display on an annual basis were thwarted by some members of our ward and the ward we shared a building with who argued that the Nativity scenes did not properly reflect the reverence of the Nativity. It's not that any of the scenes displayed were blasphemous, but like I said, they reflected the cultures that they came from (one from Africa had baby Jesus and all the participants portrayed as black, one from Mexico had the Nativity participants created from corn leaves, etc.). To some in our ward, this was blasphemy.

Too bad they didn't see the Nativities at temple square in Salt Lake. There were some there from all over as well. 

Near Park City there is an LDS Church that has a Nativity collection every year. The cultural hall and many of the rooms are just filled. It was a beautiful thing. I'd like to do it here as well.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Rain

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I find it a bit unfortunate that as a church we seem to have a very specific/narrow view of what it means to worship in a meeting style environment.

Mindful of the legitimate concerns about overburdening 'volunteers' that bluebell expressed above, our Christmas Day service is nothing like a stake conference. Whoever is in charge (and this year I had nearly 4 weeks to prepare) writes out a short script that stitches together a number of Christmas carols (we had eight all up) and includes narrative/scriptures about the first Christmas but also contemporary topics/concerns. (This year I focused on how the Atonement enables all forms of reconciliation.) I also like to include short video clips since we don't often get to use those. (We use them in our baptismal services as well.) The only assignments are for someone to play the organ, someone to conduct the music, and one or two people to read out the narration from the prepared script. The focus is on singing together. Our service lasted only 40 minutes this year because the computer for the video was locked in the clerk's office. I'm glad we have this option for those who appreciate it, which this year was over half of the people who were still in town. I was actually a bit surprised. I'm also really,really OK for families to worship/celebrate in their homes. We have no wish to take away from sacred family time.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, Walden said:

Essentially, the cultural hall was filled with rows of tables decorated with those desk-top sized Nativity scenes, the ones with the small statues of of baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, assorted barn animals and the three wise men.

I'm envious! It took me more than ten years of looking to find a nativity set here. One of our speakers the Sunday before Christmas mentioned that her non-member husband had spent a number of years finally tracking one down for her, too. We don't really 'do Christmas' at all in these parts if one considers the sacred elements, so every little thing we Church members and other Christians do is a blessing.

[Bernard Gui]

On December 31, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Walden said:

I remember one Christmas in the area I was raised in, our ward decided to invite the rest of the church communities in the area to donate Nativity decorations to be displayed in the cultural hall. It felt much of like a community outreach effort. Essentially, the cultural hall was filled with rows of tables decorated with those desk-top sized Nativity scenes, the ones with the small statues of of baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, assorted barn animals and the three wise men. The church then opened up the cultural hall to the community a few nights prior to Christmas so that the community could come and look at all of the different Nativity scenes. I remember being struck by the wide variety of different Nativity scene interpretations. There were the classic scenes with porcelain statues in lifelike detail, there were wooden sets with rather abstract interpretations of the Nativity participants, and there were some obviously homemade-looking sets that appeared almost comical, but many of the sets had been acquired by owners from around the world during their travels and displayed an array of cultural interpretations of the Nativity scene. I thought that it was a rather enlightening and mind-opening experience to see the variety of interpretations of the Nativity, and I saw more outsiders visit our church over those two weeks than I ever had.

We only did that one year. Plans to do the display on an annual basis were thwarted by some members of our ward and the ward we shared a building with who argued that the Nativity scenes did not properly reflect the reverence of the Nativity. It's not that any of the scenes displayed were blasphemous, but like I said, they reflected the cultures that they came from (one from Africa had baby Jesus and all the participants portrayed as black, one from Mexico had the Nativity participants created from corn leaves, etc.). To some in our ward, this was blasphemy.

The Tacoma Washington Stake does this beautifully every year including ongoing music performances in the chapel...and each year it gets better. It is a highlight of our Christmas. Seeing the wonderful international displays helps me appreciate the universality of the Atonement and the love and awe it inspires to people everywhere. So sad some would consider it a blasphemy. I once was a part of a live nativity scene on Temple Square.

 

Edited January 2, 2016 by Bernard Gui