Am I doing something wrong?

[Maestrophil]

I am in the doghouse.  It is so bad that my wife aid she questions the entire foundation of our marriage!

What did I do? My sister in law suggested my brother might like a bottle of Utah brewed whiskey for his birthday while he is here for a couple of days from California.  So I went in halfsies with my sister and got him a bottle. 

When my wife came home from work and learned what I had done, she was so angry and hurt and said she felt betrayed.  I tried to explain that I don't have any intention of consuming at all and my family knows it. I felt that it would help my brother and sister and parents feel I accept them and see their wants above my personal morals.  I also don't see alcohol as inherently evil.  We have been asked not to consume it as members currently, but I don't think non-members who casually drink represent evil.  

Now to add one wrinkle - recently my wife and I decided we would pay for drink for our kids who have left the church when we take them out for dinner on their birthdays etc.  We used to say we would pay for the dinner, but the drinks were on them.  But we decided it felt weird and alienated our kids, so we agreed to start just letting them order what they would like and paying the entire bill.  So why is she ok with that, but now somehow angry with me to the point of telling me I am betraying our marriage and she feels like she needs to separate herself emotionally for her 'safety'? 

 

help

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Maestrophil said:

I am in the doghouse.  It is so bad that my wife aid she questions the entire foundation of our marriage!

What did I do? My sister in law suggested my brother might like a bottle of Utah brewed whiskey for his birthday while he is here for a couple of days from California.  So I went in halfsies with my sister and got him a bottle. 

When my wife came home from work and learned what I had done, she was so angry and hurt and said she felt betrayed.  I tried to explain that I don't have any intention of consuming at all and my family knows it. I felt that it would help my brother and sister and parents feel I accept them and see their wants above my personal morals.  I also don't see alcohol as inherently evil.  We have been asked not to consume it as members currently, but I don't think non-members who casually drink represent evil.  

Now to add one wrinkle - recently my wife and I decided we would pay for drink for our kids who have left the church when we take them out for dinner on their birthdays etc.  We used to say we would pay for the dinner, but the drinks were on them.  But we decided it felt weird and alienated our kids, so we agreed to start just letting them order what they would like and paying the entire bill.  So why is she ok with that, but now somehow angry with me to the point of telling me I am betraying our marriage and she feels like she needs to separate herself emotionally for her 'safety'? 

 

help

Is there any chance your brother doesn't handle alcohol well? Could thatbe the reason?

Or perhaps it is because you approached it together with the kids, but you left her out of the choice for your brother?

[Maestrophil]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Is there any chance your brother doesn't handle alcohol well? Could thatbe the reason?

Or perhaps it is because you approached it together with the kids, but you left her out of the choice for your brother?

My brother collects ‘sipping’ liquors and likes to identify ‘notes’ etc.  he isn’t a fan of getting drunk.  When he was a kid maybe but now he is far from an alcoholic. 
 

I suppose my wife might be angry because I didn’t consult her - but she never mentioned it while chastising me and bowing out of the goodbye dinner with my family.  She just kept asking me how I could do such a thing, saying she questions who I am, asks what if someone saw me? Etc.  maybe be she just hasn’t claimed down enough to realize the unilateral choice is what upset her most - but boy did she let me have it 

so what do you and others here think of members buying alcohol for someone at dinner or as a gift?  And even if it is a gray area, is it severe enough in your minds to constitute a moral failure?  

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

I am in the doghouse.  It is so bad that my wife aid she questions the entire foundation of our marriage!

What did I do? My sister in law suggested my brother might like a bottle of Utah brewed whiskey for his birthday while he is here for a couple of days from California.  So I went in halfsies with my sister and got him a bottle. 

When my wife came home from work and learned what I had done, she was so angry and hurt and said she felt betrayed.  I tried to explain that I don't have any intention of consuming at all and my family knows it. I felt that it would help my brother and sister and parents feel I accept them and see their wants above my personal morals.  I also don't see alcohol as inherently evil.  We have been asked not to consume it as members currently, but I don't think non-members who casually drink represent evil.  

Now to add one wrinkle - recently my wife and I decided we would pay for drink for our kids who have left the church when we take them out for dinner on their birthdays etc.  We used to say we would pay for the dinner, but the drinks were on them.  But we decided it felt weird and alienated our kids, so we agreed to start just letting them order what they would like and paying the entire bill.  So why is she ok with that, but now somehow angry with me to the point of telling me I am betraying our marriage and she feels like she needs to separate herself emotionally for her 'safety'? 

 

help

 

My one guess is Rain may be right and it’s because you didn’t involve her.  My other guess is it’s because the whiskey is in your house (if it isn’t, ignore what follows, I going off the cue of you saying you aren’t going to drink it, which implies it’s in your possession). It’s crossed her boundaries of refuge, the place she feels safe and most in control of her life…where you and her exclude things that stress you two out as much as possible and create your ideal world. And alcohol is very much not part of that world for her for some reason. Just its presence is enough for her to feel her refuge isn’t hers any more, but she is having to sacrifice for someone else.  The kids’ drinking is outside the home, not in it, so that is acceptable.  
 

a third guess….You not asking her permission to bring the alcohol into your home is a combo of the two  

But really she should be the one telling you why she is upset, not us.  You also shouldn’t just try to think of what you have heard from her in the past and extrapolate from that, but ask her sincerely for more information now.  

It may be an issue that she feels she has discussed with you before, so the fact you still don’t understand feels like it adds insult to injury.

Part of listening involves incorporating it into your behaviour towards her.  Sometimes spouses assume the other understands more than they really do because communication only goes so far. 

If this is the first time she has acted this way, something is different this time, so you need to be prepared to respond in new ways and not assume that what you did in the past will work again. 

But again, the important thing is to reach out to her and let her know you truly want to understand.  And you are committed to help healing this wound whatever the cause and learning how to be better at understanding her needs as well as her expectations of she has of you.

One of the worse things you can do is make assumptions about what your spouse wants and needs rather than asking…and not just superficially where you fill in the details, but with examples and doing it over time in multiple contexts.  
 

My husband came from a family who shut down anything negative, just ignored it.  It was pretty obvious within a few months because we spent a lot of time in their home early on and I saw his family (a great one btw) in action on this.  So I thought I was doing my husband a great favour by modeling openness and communication by sharing not only positive reactions, but negative ones.  I figured over time he would finally feel safe enough having seen that expressing negativity didn’t lead to disaster. 20 years into our marriage one day he bursts out he is constantly worrying about us getting divorce because of my dissatisfaction with our relationship when it had never entered my head (except right at the beginning of it and that was a drug reaction that sent me into depression). The context he was applying to what I was saying was totally unexpected for me. I had asked him to communicate and he couldn’t. I shouldn’t have been so arrogant thinking I knew enough psychology I could help him feel safe. I couldn’t as long as he had that filter of doom in place. We should have gone to counseling right off to help us get on the same page.  He did the same thing for me, making assumptions about what I wanted, thinking he was protecting me by not sharing things he was going through that I couldn’t do anything about…like not telling me he was in a motorcycle accident and in the hospital until he knew everything would be okay and could reassure me. He knew I couldn’t come to the hospital because I had to stay at home for our daughter among other things (he called our son to take him to the hospital), knew it would be a very big stress for me…but for some reason he didn’t get the long term implications of him hiding critical stuff from me.  He still often doesn’t tell me he has something he is medically worried about, but it’s gotten better since he retired and I am his main conversational partner, lol.

All that just to point out trying to fill in the details on how your partner thinks is likely to be more of a disaster than a success. Best to just keep working with each other, opening up and being accepting trying very hard not to be defensive. If this level of communication can’t happen in your home without making things worse (and it may be just because of different upbringings, not because of anything either of you have chosen…you just don’t think the same way), go to counseling if you can.  Even the best intentions won’t get through if the assumptions you have made about each other are wrong and worse, not shared. 

BTW, my husband and I both grew up in the Church and had psych degrees from BYU, both took the undergraduate counsels class in order to be able to work as student counselors.  We took the same behavioral classes and others. We assumed all that shared experience meant we were on the same page, working with the same methods.  And it looked that way in a lot of our life…but we were so wrong. We have had a great marriage, but so many bumps in it that didn’t have to be there because we weren’t communicating in ways we each understood. 

And honestly I am pissed at myself for being so secure that I knew best so that I am having to still work on basic issues at age 65 instead of resolving this in our 30s.

Edited April 9 by Calm

[Maestrophil]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

 

My one guess is Rain may be right and it’s because you didn’t involve her.  My other guess is it’s because the whiskey is in your house (if it isn’t, ignore what follows, I going off the cue of you saying you aren’t going to drink it, which implies it’s in your possession). It’s crossed her boundaries of refuge, the place she feels safe and most in control of her life…where you and her exclude things that stress you two out as much as possible and create your ideal world. And alcohol is very much not part of that world for her for some reason. Just its presence is enough for her to feel her refuge isn’t hers any more, but she is having to sacrifice for someone else.  The kids’ drinking is outside the home, not in it, so that is acceptable.  
 

a third guess….You not asking her permission to bring the alcohol into your home is a combo of the two  

But really she should be the one telling you why she is upset, not us.  You also shouldn’t just try to think of what you have heard from her in the past and extrapolate from that, but ask her sincerely for more information now.  

It may be an issue that she feels she has discussed with you before, so the fact you still don’t understand feels like it adds insult to injury.

Part of listening involves incorporating it into your behaviour towards her.  Sometimes spouses assume the other understands more than they really do because communication only goes so far. 

If this is the first time she has acted this way, something is different this time, so you need to be prepared to respond in new ways and not assume that what you did in the past will work again. 

But again, the important thing is to reach out to her and let her know you truly want to understand.  And you are committed to help healing this wound whatever the cause and learning how to be better at understanding her needs as well as her expectations of she has of you.

 

Thank you.  A lot of good stuff here.  I will take it into consideration.  
 

yes the bottle was on the counter when she came home. We were both supposed to leave right away to go to my parents house to have a goodbye dinner for my brother and his family.  

[Calm]

44 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

Thank you.  A lot of good stuff here.  I will take it into consideration.  
 

yes the bottle was on the counter when she came home. We were both supposed to leave right away to go to my parents house to have a goodbye dinner for my brother and his family.  

I wrote more…as I do, lol.

I wonder if I should share with you our issues with guns (my husband likes to targetshoot for fun..goes with our son and friends, I don’t want them in our home…I know people who have been killed by their own guns in their own home).  Came across bullets unexpectedly in my husband’s closet one day.  Not happy about it.  Then there was his grandfather’s antique Colt which was a dear keepsake for him.  

Communication is what works if anything is going to work.  Compromise is important too, but you need to understand what is important to the other first so you don’t get resentful thinking you are the one having to sacrifice while the other is getting their way (they are likely thinking the same thing in my experience with friends and extended family).

Edited April 9 by Calm

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Maestrophil said:

My brother collects ‘sipping’ liquors and likes to identify ‘notes’ etc.  he isn’t a fan of getting drunk.  When he was a kid maybe but now he is far from an alcoholic. 
 

I suppose my wife might be angry because I didn’t consult her - but she never mentioned it while chastising me and bowing out of the goodbye dinner with my family.  She just kept asking me how I could do such a thing, saying she questions who I am, asks what if someone saw me? Etc.  maybe be she just hasn’t claimed down enough to realize the unilateral choice is what upset her most - but boy did she let me have it 

so what do you and others here think of members buying alcohol for someone at dinner or as a gift?  And even if it is a gray area, is it severe enough in your minds to constitute a moral failure?  

To be clear, I'm no longer a believing member. I was just trying to help.

I'm really the wrong person to ask because long before I no longer believed I saw the devastating affects of alcohol on family members and friends and while I am ok with others drinking I won't provide it for anyone. However, I have bought a lot tea and coffee for non members when I was a believing member.

Honestly, like calm said, these questions are really only questions your wife can answer. Different members will feel different ways. Be patient with her as she may not be aware herself of why she feels certain ways. I hope you get some understanding of why she feels how she feels and that she gets some understanding of where your heart is with this gift.

 

Edited April 9 by Rain

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

My brother collects ‘sipping’ liquors and likes to identify ‘notes’ etc.  he isn’t a fan of getting drunk.  When he was a kid maybe but now he is far from an alcoholic. 
 

I suppose my wife might be angry because I didn’t consult her - but she never mentioned it while chastising me and bowing out of the goodbye dinner with my family.  She just kept asking me how I could do such a thing, saying she questions who I am, asks what if someone saw me? Etc.  maybe be she just hasn’t claimed down enough to realize the unilateral choice is what upset her most - but boy did she let me have it 

so what do you and others here think of members buying alcohol for someone at dinner or as a gift?  And even if it is a gray area, is it severe enough in your minds to constitute a moral failure?  

I am guessing that middle part might be the real issue and she is worried that someone saw you buying it.

[Maestrophil]

5 hours ago, Rain said:

To be clear, I'm no longer a believing member. I was just trying to help.

I'm really the wrong person to ask because long before I no longer believed I saw the devastating affects of alcohol on family members and friends and while I am ok with others drinking I won't provide it for anyone. However, I have bought a lot tea and coffee for non members when I was a believing member.

Honestly, like calm said, these questions are really only questions your wife can answer. Different members will feel different ways. Be patient with her as she may not be aware herself of why she feels certain ways. I hope you get some understanding of why she feels how she feels and that she gets some understanding of where your heart is with this gift.

 

Thank you far all the insight. 
 

Having it in the home for a minute is odd too to me because we have rum and cherry liquor for baking and wine in the fridge for cooking.  Never a problem.  

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I am guessing that middle part might be the real issue and she is worried that someone saw you buying it.

I know that part bugged her because she said so - what would people think?  I feel badly that matters to her but I have never cared what people think if I feel right with God. 
 

Im sad she’s hurt by my choice. But I don’t want to be scolded for it. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I am guessing that middle part might be the real issue and she is worried that someone saw you buying it.

I suppose she might be thinking that because his behaviour reflects on her and their relationship in others’ eyes, this could affect how others view their marriage.  Which could be felt as betrayal I guess. Given extended family is nonLDS and some of their kids are now not, does Maestro live in an LDS dense area where this is a possibility?  

That intense of an emotional reaction, it seems like fear is the driver of the reaction if so.  Could be there is some unknown history here.  Perhaps someone in their ward or neighborhood has condemned another person on flimsy evidence and ostracized them from a social group. Or she has been humiliated by a family member for not being a good mother because your kids aren’t members and now if they heard about this, they might assume you weren’t faithful either.  And she doesn’t want others to look down on you. Not saying you should ask her if these happened, I am just using these to show there are valid reasons besides ego/being worried about appearances that she might be worried you were seen.  So don’t be dismissive of her fear if this is the cause. 

Again even if something here sounds like it might be right, don’t assume it is. Still ask your wife as the only credible source.  

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

feel badly that matters to her but I have never cared what people think if I feel right with God. 

But you don’t know why it matters to her at this point and it’s best not to make more assumptions  or compare her reactions to your own cause that is easy to get into judging her. 

It may not be pride or caring about appearances, but her history that has led to that worry or fear (if that is actually the driver and not something you misunderstood).  

Perhaps someone has tried to humiliate her because of your kids no longer being members and used their drinking as evidence of her failure…or maybe she feels like she failed, but she is shifting that judgement on to others instead of seeing it as she’s judging herself because she doesn’t want to blame your children for her feeling that way.

Our ideas can be convoluted and not as straightforward as others assume they will be like the way my husband saw my willingness to be open with negativity (so we could resolve issues which for me is a sign of a strong marriage) as a sign that divorce was always part of our conversation, that I wasn’t all into the marriage from the start, possibly because that’s part of what avoiding negativity meant for his parents or someone else he knew or it could just have been a result of something here, something there that’s hardly related that got pulled into a pattern for him and he saw that pattern happening for us because that is humans do, we see patterns whether they are there or not.

 If you go into the conversation already thinking you know what’s wrong and especially if you think she is too concerned with what others are thinking, you are already  judging her rather than listening, especially if you feel being able to focus on what God thinks of you rather than other people is a more mature, superior way…which would be understandable if that was all that was going on, but it’s likely to be more complicated than that.  You assuming this is likely right will get in the way of understanding.  Any conclusions should come after, not before, the listening to her, not us.

Plus she is likely to be aware of that judgment and if she is, it would be understandable if she becomes defensive and walls will go up so she feels safer from your judgement and the hurt that will cause.  

And there is a good chance if your reaction is judgment or pity that she isn’t mature enough not to care, that will confirm the sense of betrayal she already experienced with this.

So try to go in without any expectations or assumptions of why she is doing it except that she has valid reasons for feeling this way even if they aren’t reasons that are important to you.  You are there to understand and find ways to communicate honestly and openly to help each of you feel safe and cared for by the other, not to determine who is right or wrong. 

Edited April 9 by Calm

[Maestrophil]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

But you don’t know why it matters to her at this point and it’s best not to make more assumptions  or compare her reactions to your own cause that is easy to get into judging her. 

It may not be pride or caring about appearances, but her history that has led to that worry or fear (if that is actually the driver and not something you misunderstood).  

Perhaps someone has tried to humiliate her because of your kids no longer being members and used their drinking as evidence of her failure…or maybe she feels like she failed, but she is shifting that judgement on to others instead of seeing it as she’s judging herself because she doesn’t want to blame your children for her feeling that way.

Our ideas can be convoluted and not as straightforward as others assume they will be like the way my husband saw my willingness to be open with negativity (so we could resolve issues which for me is a sign of a strong marriage) as a sign that divorce was always part of our conversation, that I wasn’t all into the marriage from the start, possibly because that’s part of what avoiding negativity meant for his parents or someone else he knew or it could just have been a result of something here, something there that’s hardly related that got pulled into a pattern for him and he saw that pattern happening for us because that is humans do, we see patterns whether they are there or not.

 If you go into the conversation already thinking you know what’s wrong and especially if you think she is too concerned with what others are thinking, you are already  judging her rather than listening, especially if you feel being able to focus on what God thinks of you rather than other people is a more mature, superior way…which would be understandable if that was all that was going on, but it’s likely to be more complicated than that.  You assuming this is likely right will get in the way of understanding.  Any conclusions should come after, not before, the listening to her, not us.

Plus she is likely to be aware of that judgment and if she is, it would be understandable if she becomes defensive and walls will go up so she feels safer from your judgement and the hurt that will cause.  

And there is a good chance if your reaction is judgment or pity that she isn’t mature enough not to care, that will confirm the sense of betrayal she already experienced with this.

So try to go in without any expectations or assumptions of why she is doing it except that she has valid reasons for feeling this way even if they aren’t reasons that are important to you.  You are there to understand and find ways to communicate honestly and openly to help each of you feel safe and cared for by the other, not to determine who is right or wrong. 

Thank you.  I agree, I want her to know that she is being heard and validated.  I also want to feel heard and validated too - so how do I put that aside if I am being judged and not listened to?  

This is a second marriage for both of us, and I know that her ex had issues with alcohol, including DUIs, so that could be driving some of it.  He got baptized when they were dating, but was never faithful and they ended up *ahem* 'having' to get married - sometimes I feel she might 'overcorrect' in her attempts to be righteous because of that. We do live in an area where people could see me.  None of our kids are active/believing.  

I want to understand, it is just hard to feel scolded and have it held against me.  If it was just her saying she was sad about it that would be one thing, but to feel chastised like a child or a sinner makes it hard not for me to want to push back.  That is why I appreciated your insights to help me see things a little differently.  Thank you.

[Tacenda]

Has she had or done anything real stressful lately? I'm embarrassed to say I exploded in tears on Easter Sunday when my husband wouldn't hide the Easter eggs for the grand "littles" before they arrived, he feared the candy that melts would melt in the sun, and wanted to wait till right before we have the hunt, and I was worried that would blow the hiding spots but he did hide them earlier when I wanted and he was right, they melted! 

It was me, and my pressure cooker ways, I stress about the food and every little thing being good enough and sometimes my husband will seem to thwart it for me. Like for instance when we would have dinners for my kids who are all out of the house, he would seem to think dinner was ready, and call everyone for prayer. Well, it wasn't ready as far as silverware, drinks or little things, and he just could not help himself. To me, it showed he didn't respect me. And in other ways he seems to think the worst and is negative so I almost feel he wills things to go wrong, but it's not out of spite. So after my explosion and our feelings for each other were on the line, we luckily got it together before the family arrived. I hold things in a lot. 

Could it be she had a reaction somewhat like mine, over something so small? Is there something she had been trying to have be just right or perfect. Maybe even Gen Conf talks that she's had a renewed sense of trying to be better? 

Just my two cents. Hope everything works out and you two can discuss it together and get to the bottom of it.

Edited April 9 by Tacenda

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

I also want to feel heard and validated too - so how do I put that aside if I am being judged and not listened to?  

Think about why you care about being judged.  Not to be able to reject that feeling but to find out what is driving your desire to avoid it (especially when you just said you don’t care what people think as long as you are right with God…yet this bothers you).  You need to understand what’s going on inside of you, what you are trying to protect and why as well as reaching out to her as that is when real connection and openness can happened.  She will likely be more transparent if you are transparent in what’s going on in your head and heart as we tend to reciprocate what we receive from others.  If you are defensive and protecting yourself because you don’t want to feel like she is scolding you, she will shift to being more defensive…leading you to be more defensive, then her, etc. vicious circle closing both of you down. 

But we have come to the level where my advice might make things worse rather than better because I don’t know your situation and most of my advice is built on my own experience since I only got as far as my bachelor’s in clinical psych (and I intended to do research, not therapy anyway).  In my own case and several others with whom I share experiences and ideas, I might see putting aside my own need to be heard and listened to begin with because it’s easier to focus on one person at a time as a good strategy because I am relatively secure enough to know the conversation would continue (because my husband does participate even if he finds is hard to initiate and share his own feelings).  Also I have found my needs shift once I understand him better, so it’s more efficient to first understand what is going on before I start trying to meet my own needs…besides the basic senses of stability and security I need to  feel in order to be transparent with my own feelings.

I also find it somewhat easy to step out of worrying about me when my husband is upset about something because curiosity kicks in and is often stronger than fear of being hurt.  

And my husband avoiding criticism is a huge factor in my ability not to worry about being judged.  That security is likely not present in most marriages (like many things there are pros as well as cons to having a partner who focuses on the positive a bit excessively).

So I can’t really go into much detail on what might help because your situation is likely very different than my own.

So I should stick to very basic.   Maybe others have more applicable ideas to your situation.

The most basic….You can’t control her reactions, you can only control your own…if you recognize what’s driving them…or most of what is, so your efforts need to be about paying attention to what’s going on behind the scenes for both of you.  

Maybe just the focusing on trying to figure out the why rather than trying to see if she is judging you will help.  If you start feeling judged, maybe you can accept the feeling without trying to avoid it or feel resentment about it and think for the time being ‘let’s be more concerned about the why and then I will take care of the other when I know what’s going on’.  That can be both useful and a distraction that can give you important time to create a better, more effective context to process your emotions.  

An observation…there is a lot of baggage on her end and it’s likely it feels unfair to you at times that those experiences are part of why she reacts to you at times, not just for what you are doing and who you are.  It would me.

Those first marriages complicate the picture even if she and you are trying to keep them out of your relationship.  You two have had relationship altering experiences that you have no personal knowledge or experience of and everything you know must be shared by your spouse…and that may be the last thing you two want to do or think you should be doing.  And it may not be right if either or both of you have a tendency to assume the other is comparing or equating you to the ex if they  get mentioned.

This is where I feel very lost in trying to point you towards anything.  The closest thing I have experienced with this kind of baggage was my husband thinking I was comparing him to my dad all the time and finding my husband lacking.  Actually it was the reverse, I did compare, but it was my dad who came up short because I had intentionally looked for a man who did well in those categories (interested in kids, enjoying playing with family most, not wanting to fix me).  I guess that example can show you need to be cautious about assuming she is actually judging you and it’s not you making faulty assumptions that she is or how she is.

Counseling could be very helpful in helping you both focus on the here and now and process baggage if needed.  There are many things that are much harder to see from the inside. 
 

And I need to stop now as time ran out long ago.  Probably will think of other things to say. But I am concerned that I know way too little to be more helpful.  There are somethings that are pretty common, but best to have someone who knows the context better.  I may be blowing up the importance of somethings because of what I have seen in others (I have relatives with multiple marriages, both carried a lot of baggage and I an thinking of them here when maybe I shouldn’t).
 

The biggest thing I hope you take away from anything I say is the impossibility of knowing enough without communication, so it’s well worth the effort to examine your own assumptions and to challenge them. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Maestrophil said:

Thank you.  I agree, I want her to know that she is being heard and validated.  I also want to feel heard and validated too - so how do I put that aside if I am being judged and not listened to?  

 

Both are good things.  You guys need to sit down and talk it out so that both things can be accomplished.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Both are good things.  You guys need to sit down and talk it out so that both things can be accomplished.

Yes. I actually just got done writting a very long text to someone about this.  She is teaching Elder Stephenson's talk on Peacemaking and asked if I would say something in class or write something.  Basically I told her peacemaking isn't just playing nice and not making waves. Peacemaking is both sides trying to truly understand and see the other's heart and then try to work it out with that understanding. 

Stephen Covey talks about both sides winning. In most cases of things that matter, if only one side wins, then both sides actually lose. 

I find if I go in trying to understand my husband better that it helps him to trust me enough to try to understand me better when I speak up for how I'm feeling too. He knows I'm not just in it for the win.  And vice versa. 

[MustardSeed]

My cheap 2cents- 

The emotional reaction that doesn’t seem to fit the situation indicates that there’s something deeper going on for her. There’s only one way to find out and that’s by having a conversation with her. If she was previously partnered with an alcoholic, my wild guess would be there’s something there. She may perceive that now the floodgates have opened with the decision to pay for alcohol for your kids meals and she may fear where that is going. She may have been simply triggered by seeing the alcohol on the counter. To me, without any information, discovering by surprise  out that my husband purchased alcohol would be jarring to me, and that I have always felt safe in our sobriety.

[JAHS]

Personally I don't think one should talk about issues with their spouse on a public discussion group, unless it is to praise and express love for them. 
It should be handled between the two of you.

[Maestrophil]

12 hours ago, JAHS said:

Personally I don't think one should talk about issues with their spouse on a public discussion group, unless it is to praise and express love for them. 
It should be handled between the two of you.

Yes, I agree - and I didn't intend this to be as much a discussion about my spouse as much as trying to get a feel for how people feel about the thought of buying alcohol and coffee etc for people not of our faith and who feels it is ok vs not ok? 

I suppose I should have just started it as a poll.  

Though I do appreciate the great advice and good intentions of the advice I received that is belong me be introspective so I approach my wife with the kindness and understanding she deserves. 

[Maestrophil]

On 4/8/2026 at 11:52 PM, Maestrophil said:

so what do you and others here think of members buying alcohol for someone at dinner or as a gift?  And even if it is a gray area, is it severe enough in your minds to constitute a moral failure?  

^^^^^

This is really what I wanted to ask here...

[longview]

Buying whiskey as a gift (even for close relations) is like financing a lifestyle choice when you personally choose NOT to indulge in it. That would be a huge contradiction IMO. I would NOT purchase for inactive children (even for sons and daughters).

We know that George Romney (former governor of Michigan) kept a bar in his home for his guests. That is also a contradiction IMO.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

^^^^^

This is really what I wanted to ask here...

 Not in my opinion because I don’t think that drinking in and of itself is immoral. 

Edited April 10 by bluebell

[JAHS]

6 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

On 4/8/2026 at 10:52 PM, Maestrophil said:

so what do you and others here think of members buying alcohol for someone at dinner or as a gift?  And even if it is a gray area, is it severe enough in your minds to constitute a moral failure?  

^^^^^

This is really what I wanted to ask here...

People who have not made the same covenants that members of the church have are not committing sin by drinking. 
If I am hosting a dinner at a restaurant I would almost expect the guests would take care of their own alcoholic drink orders.
But if not I don't see anything wrong with paying for the entire dinner including the drinks.; especially if they are not nor never were members.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, longview said:

Buying whiskey as a gift (even for close relations) is like financing a lifestyle choice when you personally choose NOT to indulge in it. That would be a huge contradiction IMO. I would NOT purchase for inactive children (even for sons and daughters).

We know that George Romney (former governor of Michigan) kept a bar in his home for his guests. That is also a contradiction IMO.

I think this is purity culture gone nuts. Financing a lifestyle choice? It is a gift.

This seems to be more about signaling to everyone else as opposed to focusing on the relationship the gift is a part of. I mean don’t do it if you don’t want to but making not giving certain gifts to people a virtue is making virtue itself cheap and petty.

[MustardSeed]

On 4/9/2026 at 9:44 PM, JAHS said:

Personally I don't think one should talk about issues with their spouse on a public discussion group, unless it is to praise and express love for them. 
It should be handled between the two of you.

I purchase ice cream for my husband but I don’t eat it because it’s unhealthy.  It feels fine to me to do so.