Alcohol causes cancer

[Tacenda]

http://www.countryliving.com/food-drinks/a36857/drinking-champagne-dementia-alzheimers/?src=socialflowFB

Just barely saw this...

I'm trying to prevent the almost inevitable of my getting this disease. But hate the taste of certain alcohol beverages. Champagne? Maybe.

[Calm]

If you prefer cancer to dementia, go for it.

Or you could research and find substitutes minus the alcohol.

[Tacenda]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you prefer cancer to dementia, go for it.

Or you could research and find substitutes minus the alcohol.

I thought that too. I wonder if grapes work just as well, or is there a needed combination.

[Calm]

You can probably find what you need in a nutritional supplement, it isn't something I have investigated and I am burnt out today on med stuff due to dealing with insurance companies and going nowhere for both my daughter and my mom.  Check out mayoclinic.com, they are very, very good; conservative enough to be accurate, paying attention to the new stuff so they aren't missing helpful info and they cover a lot of ground with meds and supplements.  Always my first stop.

[Yirgacheffe]

That time a bunch of journalists confused an opinion piece for a study

 

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/that-time-a-bunch-of-journalists-confused-an-opinion-piece-for-a-study/

 

Not a big fan of alcohol (except in cooking, chicken marsala and beef burgundy) but I dislike bad info even more. 

 

 

[thesometimesaint]

There seems to be some benefits to the fermentation process unavailable in straight grape juice or its concentrates. Another plus is that alcohols release favor compounds in foods not normally released by water, or straight juices. Dealcoholized wines are available but some people find that they have an off taste.

SEE http://www.cnet.com/news/sober-thoughts-on-dealcoholized-wine/

 For those that worry about alcohol, prolonged heat greatly diminishes the level of alcohol. It can not reach 0%, but the yeast breads we all love to eat have some alcohol in them. Albeit a very tiny amount. For those that are allergic, of course don't consume anything with alcohol in it.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said:

but I dislike bad info even more. 

I did not confuse a lit review for a research study and neither did the article.  You can see for yourself in what I quoted.

That the conclusion of the author of the lit review is accurate is demonstrated by the last paragraph in the link you provide so I am uncertain what you are thinking is bad info.  It is essentially saying the same thing as your article.  Old News, but for reason people haven't got the message and so the author wanted to try a little harder to get it across.

Perhaps you thought it was a different article than the medscape one I posted.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

That is "for some reason"...and sorry about the formatting, can't get back in now to change it.  One edit was lucky.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

There seems to be some benefits to the fermentation process unavailable in straight grape juice or its concentrates. Another plus is that alcohols release favor compounds in foods not normally released by water, or straight juices. Dealcoholized wines are available but some people find that they have an off taste.

SEE http://www.cnet.com/news/sober-thoughts-on-dealcoholized-wine/

 For those that worry about alcohol, prolonged heat greatly diminishes the level of alcohol. It can not reach 0%, but the yeast breads we all love to eat have some alcohol in them. Albeit a very tiny amount. For those that are allergic, of course don't consume anything with alcohol in it.

And doctors do not recommend starting to drink for the health benefits, the risk of harm from overdrinking is too high in their opinion apparently, especially if you are already ill:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/red-wine/art-20048281?pg=2

"Neither the American Heart Association nor the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute recommend that you start drinking alcohol just to prevent heart disease. Alcohol can be addictive and can cause or worsen other health problems."

[thesometimesaint]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

And doctors do not recommend starting to drink for the health benefits, the risk of harm from overdrinking is too high in their opinion apparently, especially if you are already ill:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/red-wine/art-20048281?pg=2

"Neither the American Heart Association nor the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute recommend that you start drinking alcohol just to prevent heart disease. Alcohol can be addictive and can cause or worsen other health problems."

That is good advice.

[Guest]

I have always been impressed with the WoW, it inspires healthy eating, and those things prohibited are all addictive, two without a doubt can lead to serious health problems and death. Tobacco (unknown at the time) lead to so many cancers and death, that there are few public places anywhere where the used of it is allowed. The coffee drinkers as they grow older can barley function without it. I have worked with people over my lifetime, whom speaking to them before their morning coffee, would be taking your life in your hands. Alcohol has lead to the ruins of so many marriages and even the drinker losing all contact of every family member. My own grandfather lost contact with every member of his family, making genealogy very difficult, one night in a drunken state, he decieded to clean his shotgun and shot of his leg from the knee down. If Joseph was making up his revelation, he sure got this section of the D&C right and made himself a Prophet. 

[Gray]

8 minutes ago, Pa Pa said:

I have always been impressed with the WoW, it inspires healthy eating, and those things prohibited are all addictive, two without a doubt can lead to serious health problems and death. Tobacco (unknown at the time) lead to so many cancers and death, that there are few public places anywhere where the used of it is allowed. The coffee drinkers as they grow older can barley function without it. I have worked with people over my lifetime, whom speaking to them before their morning coffee, would be taking your life in your hands. Alcohol has lead to the ruins of so many marriages and even the drinker losing all contact of every family member. My own grandfather lost contact with every member of his family, making genealogy very difficult, one night in a drunken state, he decieded to clean his shotgun and shot of his leg from the knee down. If Joseph was making up his revelation, he sure got this section of the D&C right and made himself a Prophet. 

Coffee and tea are apparently a net positive, health wise (neither are mentioned in the word of wisdom that Joseph wrote, however). Alcohol and tobacco are apparently quite harmful, although alcohol itself is not condemned in the word of wisdom - in fact its use is approved. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Gray

[thesometimesaint]

7 minutes ago, Gray said:

Coffee and tea are apparently a net positive, health wise (neither are mentioned in the word of wisdom that Joseph wrote, however). Alcohol and tobacco are apparently quite harmful, although alcohol itself is not condemned in the word of wisdom - in fact its use is approved. 

No it is not.

[Gray]

10 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

No it is not.

What is not?

[Maestrophil]

On August 1, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Tacenda said:

That's right, I listened to a dumb podcast where they said alcohol wasn't mentioned in the WoW. I should have read the D&C again, forgot about the mention of strong drink. That's what I get with jumping to conclusions.

And for listening to dumb podcasts!  :-)

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

Coffee and tea are apparently a net positive, health wise (neither are mentioned in the word of wisdom that Joseph wrote, however). Alcohol and tobacco are apparently quite harmful, although alcohol itself is not condemned in the word of wisdom - in fact its use is approved. 

Coffee and Tea, as Joseph made clear as to what he meant as "Hot Drinks" and which verse do you quote as "Alcohol" not being mentioned as not being addressed and where "in fact" it is approved? 

[Gray]

2 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

Coffee and Tea, as Joseph made clear as to what he meant as "Hot Drinks" and which verse do you quote as "Alcohol" not being mentioned as not being addressed and where "in fact" it is approved? 

 

D&C 89

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

 6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

 

 17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Beer is approved for general consumption, and wine is approved for use in the sacrament.

 

Regarding tea/coffee, I believe the general idea in the early church was that the temperature of the drinks was what counted. I'm not aware of any statement from Joseph Smith on the matter of coffee or tea, but I'm happy to be wrong. 

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Gray

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

I have always been impressed with the WoW, it inspires healthy eating, and those things prohibited are all addictive, two without a doubt can lead to serious health problems and death. Tobacco (unknown at the time) lead to so many cancers and death, that there are few public places anywhere where the used of it is allowed. The coffee drinkers as they grow older can barley function without it. I have worked with people over my lifetime, whom speaking to them before their morning coffee, would be taking your life in your hands. Alcohol has lead to the ruins of so many marriages and even the drinker losing all contact of every family member. My own grandfather lost contact with every member of his family, making genealogy very difficult, one night in a drunken state, he decieded to clean his shotgun and shot of his leg from the knee down. If Joseph was making up his revelation, he sure got this section of the D&C right and made himself a Prophet. 

I agree, and believe this is one of the most positive things in Mormonism. Half or more of my children drink, now that are of age. Alcoholism runs high in my family background. Both my brothers are alcoholics, one is in jail right now because of the problems with it. He's a fantastic guy when he's not drinking, but when he drinks he is a bad drunk. It's basically destroyed his family. So that is the risk. My sisters OTOH, are fine and they drink socially. 

I just think that too often out in society, kids think that's what is expected and drink when they become of age. Or think they can't socialize without it. Or many things I guess. It's sung about in nearly all the popular country songs out there, I swear. 

So if I were to drink that champagne to prevent Alzheimer's, I guess I will do it with great care, and use it as if it were a medicine. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Gray said:

 

D&C 89

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

 6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

 

 17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Beer is approved for general consumption, and wine is approved for use in the sacrament.

 

Regarding tea/coffee, I believe the general idea in the early church was that the temperature of the drinks was what counted. I'm not aware of any statement from Joseph Smith on the matter of coffee or tea, but I'm happy to be wrong. 

 

The wine of the Sacrament must be of our own make, but it was the same Prophet we said water was sufficient. Wine of ones own make does not mean it would or should be fermented. It is odd that so many agree with Joseph as a Prophet and then reject the teachings of those very same revelations. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I agree, and believe this is one of the most positive things in Mormonism. Half or more of my children drink, now that are of age. Alcoholism runs high in my family background. Both my brothers are alcoholics, one is in jail right now because of the problems with it. He's a fantastic guy when he's not drinking, but when he drinks he is a bad drunk. It's basically destroyed his family. So that is the risk. My sisters OTOH, are fine and they drink socially. 

I just think that too often out in society, kids think that's what is expected and drink when they become of age. Or think they can't socialize without it. Or many things I guess. It's sung about in nearly all the popular country songs out there, I swear. 

So if I were to drink that champagne to prevent Alzheimer's, I guess I will do it with great care, and use it as if it were a medicine. 

I did not grow up in the Church, but due to the many bad examples I decided by age 14 that I would not drink, smoke and other bad habits. 

[Gray]

14 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

The wine of the Sacrament must be of our own make, but it was the same Prophet we said water was sufficient. Wine of ones own make does not mean it would or should be fermented. It is odd that so many agree with Joseph as a Prophet and then reject the teachings of those very same revelations. 

If it wasn't fermented then it wasn't wine. 

[Yirgacheffe]

On 8/3/2016 at 1:58 AM, Calm said:

I did not confuse a lit review for a research study and neither did the article.  You can see for yourself in what I quoted.

That the conclusion of the author of the lit review is accurate is demonstrated by the last paragraph in the link you provide so I am uncertain what you are thinking is bad info.  It is essentially saying the same thing as your article.  Old News, but for reason people haven't got the message and so the author wanted to try a little harder to get it across.

Perhaps you thought it was a different article than the medscape one I posted.

All I get is a login screen from your link.

[thesometimesaint]

16 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

The wine of the Sacrament must be of our own make, but it was the same Prophet we said water was sufficient. Wine of ones own make does not mean it would or should be fermented. It is odd that so many agree with Joseph as a Prophet and then reject the teachings of those very same revelations. 

Grapes themselves have enough yeasts spores to start fermentation almost immediately. So unless you're picking the grapes and drinking the juice right then you will get some alcohol. Expose the juice to air you get vinegar, exclude the air and you get wine. Canning wasn't invented for many years after the WoW came out. I agree with JS that water is fine for use in the Sacrament.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said:

All I get is a login screen from your link.

The article is copied in my post, not all iirc but enough you can see it says the same as what your article did.

[Glenn101]

4 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Grapes themselves have enough yeasts spores to start fermentation almost immediately. So unless you're picking the grapes and drinking the juice right then you will get some alcohol. Expose the juice to air you get vinegar, exclude the air and you get wine. Canning wasn't invented for many years after the WoW came out. I agree with JS that water is fine for use in the Sacrament.

Grapes can ferment on the vine also. I remember many years ago, when I was a barefoot towhead, a visit to one of my uncles' home which was on a farm. There was this luscious Concord grape vine out in the back and the grapes were somewhat past ripe. There were many that had a exceptionally fine taste. I broke the Word Wisdom, unknowingly, in a couple of ways that day. I gorged myself on those grapes, and I had the first and only alcoholic "buzz" of my life. 

So, yeah I am fine with water rather than wine.

Glenn