Changing Sacrament Meeting so that we Worship and don't just "Attend"

[bluebell]

Elder Kearon's General Conference talk last October focused on being the Church of Joy.  As part of it he talked about how in the church we assume that being reverent means to sit still with our arms folded and our heads bowed and be quiet.

Quote

"For many, reverence only means this: folding our arms tightly around our chests, bowing our heads, closing our eyes, and holding still—indefinitely! This might be a helpful way to teach energetic young children, but as we grow and learn, let us see that reverence is so much more than this. Is that how we would be if the Saviour were with us? No, for “in [His] presence is fullness of joy”!

He says that instead of just quiet and stillness we should have Joyful Reverence in sacrament meetings, but implies that this is not what we typically find at sacrament meetings and that we need to change how we view and participate in that event.

Quote

 

"We are members of the Church of Jesus Christ. We are members of the church of joy! And nowhere should our joy as a people be more apparent than when we gather together each Sabbath in our sacrament meetings to worship the source of all joy! Here we assemble with our ward and branch families to celebrate the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper, our deliverance from sin and death, and the Saviour’s powerful grace! Here we come to experience the joy, refuge, forgiveness, thanksgiving, and belonging found through Jesus Christ!

Is this spirit of collective rejoicing in Christ what you find? Is this what you bring? Maybe you think this doesn’t have much to do with you, or perhaps you are simply used to how things have always been done. But we can all contribute, no matter our age or our calling, to making our sacrament meetings the joy-filled, Christ-focused, welcoming hour they can be, alive with a spirit of joyful reverence."

"Well, for many of us this transformation in sacrament services will take practice."

He then talks about the difference between attending and worshipping:

Quote

We do not gather on the Sabbath simply to attend sacrament meeting and check it off the list. We come together to worship. There is a significant difference between the two. To attend means to be present at. But to worship is to intentionally praise and adore our God in a way that transforms us!

In your opinion, what do we need to change about our sacrament meetings to better follow Elder Kearon's admonition?  Have many of our congregations been doing it wrong all these years?

 

[Duncan]

I've seen differences in wards at how the meeting is conducted. When it gets to the actual administering the sacrament people will say "the sacrament portion" or " the next item on the agenda" as if the sacrament is one of several things to do to get everyone out of here and onto the next thing.

Not to be critical but our ward usually starts sometimes 10-15 minutes late as the Bishop is dithering around talking to people or he arrives late or whatever and so that can be eliminated. 

[CV75]

23 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Elder Kearon's General Conference talk last October focused on being the Church of Joy.  As part of it he talked about how in the church we assume that being reverent means to sit still with our arms folded and our heads bowed and be quiet.

He says that instead of just quiet and stillness we should have Joyful Reverence in sacrament meetings, but implies that this is not what we typically find at sacrament meetings and that we need to change how we view and participate in that event.

He then talks about the difference between attending and worshipping:

In your opinion, what do we need to change about our sacrament meetings to better follow Elder Kearon's admonition?  Have many of our congregations been doing it wrong all these years?

 

I think his admonitions have to do with us as induviduals. Some individuals influence the meetings as leaders and others as congregants, but everyone does. And most of this influence ocurrs outside of the sacrament meeting block and structure, primarily by example, though we also bring it with us to the meeting.

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, CV75 said:

And most of this influence occurs outside of the sacrament meeting block and structure,...

In your opinion, how so?

What do we do outside of sacrament meeting that makes it so we (and our ward) have created a habit of attending sacrament (as if attending a "meeting") rather than worshipping?

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I've seen differences in wards at how the meeting is conducted. When it gets to the actual administering the sacrament people will say "the sacrament portion" or " the next item on the agenda" as if the sacrament is one of several things to do to get everyone out of here and onto the next thing.

Not to be critical but our ward usually starts sometimes 10-15 minutes late as the Bishop is dithering around talking to people or he arrives late or whatever and so that can be eliminated. 

We do have a lot of business language in our sacrament meetings for sure.  That's a good point.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Elder Kearon's General Conference talk last October focused on being the Church of Joy.  As part of it he talked about how in the church we assume that being reverent means to sit still with our arms folded and our heads bowed and be quiet.

He says that instead of just quiet and stillness we should have Joyful Reverence in sacrament meetings, but implies that this is not what we typically find at sacrament meetings and that we need to change how we view and participate in that event.

He then talks about the difference between attending and worshipping:

In your opinion, what do we need to change about our sacrament meetings to better follow Elder Kearon's admonition?  Have many of our congregations been doing it wrong all these years?

 

I think overhauling the hymns is a great start!!

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think overhauling the hymns is a great start!!

I agree it has huge potential.  I hope that potential is realized.   

[CV75]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

In your opinion, how so?

What do we do outside of sacrament meeting that makes it so we (and our ward) have created a habit of attending sacrament (as if attending a "meeting") rather than worshipping?

I have learned that by living the gospel in everyday life (including our private religious habits/practices and callings) and treating others charitably, we have the Spirit more constantly, so that more formal carve-outs for congregational worship, such as as sacrament and temple, become more meaningful and joyous, both personally and jointly with those whom we relate outside of these venues. 

[Tacenda]

I was turned off while visiting non LDS services with rock bands etc. and swaying with hands up during the height of my faith crisis. I guess I'm old and am used to Sacrament services being very reverent. But maybe if it's small increments such as the Baptist Choir joining the stake and ward choirs during Christmas, may lead to my acceptance.  My experience was sweet years ago when this happened. 

Edited February 18, 2025 by Tacenda

[Rain]

Quote

1.Rev’rence is more than just quietly sitting:

It’s thinking of Father above,

A feeling I get when I think of his blessings.

I’m rev’rent, for rev’rence is love.

When I’m rev’rent, it shows in my words and my deeds.

The pathway to follow is clear.

And when I am rev’rent, I know in my heart

Heav’nly Father and Jesus are near.

I've often wondered what the songwriter meant by the first line.  What did she mean by "more"?  That reverence is quietly sitting plus thinking of Father etc. or that it quietly sitting and/or thinking of Father etc.?  I know how I feel, but how did she feel and how did the leaders who chose the song feel?

[Vanguard]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

Elder Kearon's General Conference talk last October focused on being the Church of Joy.  As part of it he talked about how in the church we assume that being reverent means to sit still with our arms folded and our heads bowed and be quiet.

He says that instead of just quiet and stillness we should have Joyful Reverence in sacrament meetings, but implies that this is not what we typically find at sacrament meetings and that we need to change how we view and participate in that event.

He then talks about the difference between attending and worshipping:

In your opinion, what do we need to change about our sacrament meetings to better follow Elder Kearon's admonition?  Have many of our congregations been doing it wrong all these years?

 

My ward is particularly loud on any given Sunday with the screams of children throughout the meeting. I know it's not helpful for me when I am critical of these families (I had 3  young ones myself!) but it seems these families err on the side of keeping their children in the meeting at almost any cost and much to the detriment of those sitting around them. I understand the argument of keeping the families together during the worship service but it definitely has it's downside. : (

And for those who are RMs, I'm sure we all have our 'war stories' of bringing investigators to sacrament mtg only to be left wholly unenthused with the speakers. And again, I understand the importance of the lay membership (and our youth) having a chance to speak publicly. Still, so many times the talks are simply dry/stale. It is an effort to remind myself that though I may not find anything of interest, this same talk could be positively affecting the speaker or someone in the congregation. I have fantasized about if I ever find myself in the role of Bishop, I would at least like to coordinate what I believe are our best speakers with those Sundays that are particularly important (Christmas, Easter, Independence Day, etc).  I would also like to see more music (solo, small ensemble) performed.

I'm sure I have more... ; ) 

[Rain]

32 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

My ward is particularly loud on any given Sunday with the screams of children throughout the meeting. I know it's not helpful for me when I am critical of these families (I had 3  young ones myself!) but it seems these families err on the side of keeping their children in the meeting at almost any cost and much to the detriment of those sitting around them. I understand the argument of keeping the families together during the worship service but it definitely has it's downside. : (

And for those who are RMs, I'm sure we all have our 'war stories' of bringing investigators to sacrament mtg only to be left wholly unenthused with the speakers. And again, I understand the importance of the lay membership (and our youth) having a chance to speak publicly. Still, so many times the talks are simply dry/stale. It is an effort to remind myself that though I may not find anything of interest, this same talk could be positively affecting the speaker or someone in the congregation. I have fantasized about if I ever find myself in the role of Bishop, I would at least like to coordinate what I believe are our best speakers with those Sundays that are particularly important (Christmas, Easter, Independence Day, etc).  I would also like to see more music (solo, small ensemble) performed.

I'm sure I have more... ; ) 

I heard about a class one ward or stake had about giving talks and they had talks that were so much better after that.

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

I heard about a class one ward or stake had about giving talks and they had talks that were so much better after that.

That would be such a great idea!

[bluebell]

37 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

My ward is particularly loud on any given Sunday with the screams of children throughout the meeting. I know it's not helpful for me when I am critical of these families (I had 3  young ones myself!) but it seems these families err on the side of keeping their children in the meeting at almost any cost and much to the detriment of those sitting around them. I understand the argument of keeping the families together during the worship service but it definitely has it's downside. : (

And for those who are RMs, I'm sure we all have our 'war stories' of bringing investigators to sacrament mtg only to be left wholly unenthused with the speakers. And again, I understand the importance of the lay membership (and our youth) having a chance to speak publicly. Still, so many times the talks are simply dry/stale. It is an effort to remind myself that though I may not find anything of interest, this same talk could be positively affecting the speaker or someone in the congregation. I have fantasized about if I ever find myself in the role of Bishop, I would at least like to coordinate what I believe are our best speakers with those Sundays that are particularly important (Christmas, Easter, Independence Day, etc).  I would also like to see more music (solo, small ensemble) performed.

I'm sure I have more... ; ) 

Sometimes I think the bishopric could do more to help with the quality of talks by picking better topics that come with more instruction to the speakers.  Like instead of telling someone to talk on a general conference talk, to provide instruction that points the speaker in that direction but enforces that they aren't just supposed to read the talk to us.  Or just read scriptures and quotes from leaders.

But, I also know that my husband as a counselor specifically told an elderly missionary couple not to read the talk over the pulpit but to use it as a springboard for their own thoughts and both of them just read the talks and he was very frustrated about it.  

A class on how to prepare talks would probably be really helpful.

[2BizE]

I agree with this conversation. I think improving sacrament meeting so we worship and not just attend. I think one thing we could improve is the rigidity of our services. For example, we generally do not clap or react to a talk or to a performance. For some reasons someone came up with that concept and it seems misplaced. People worship in different ways as there are many backgrounds. Being flexible to allow for different worship styles would be nice.

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I agree with this conversation. I think improving sacrament meeting so we worship and not just attend. I think one thing we could improve is the rigidity of our services. For example, we generally do not clap or react to a talk or to a performance. For some reasons someone came up with that concept and it seems misplaced. People worship in different ways as there are many backgrounds. Being flexible to allow for different worship styles would be nice.

Agreed.  I think this is a part of our puritan protestant roots that it would be nice to move away from.  I don't know how we would do it naturally though, so it didn't detract from people's worship by the awkwardness of trying to adopt a style most of us have no experience with.  

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Agreed.  I think this is a part of our puritan protestant roots that it would be nice to move away from.  I don't know how we would do it naturally though, so it didn't detract from people's worship by the awkwardness of trying to adopt a style most of us have no experience with.  

I was about to say we can thank the Puritans for that, lol.

[blackstrap]

For many people, giving a talk is a terrifying experience and just reading the talk is the best they can muster. As much as we would all like good talks, we can be accepting , forgiving and patient with those who may not be up to some standards. ( dismounts from high horse ).

[bluebell]

7 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

For many people, giving a talk is a terrifying experience and just reading the talk is the best they can muster. As much as we would all like good talks, we can be accepting , forgiving and patient with those who may not be up to some standards. ( dismounts from high horse ).

Of course we can, but I think we can also move towards doing better and improvement, right?  

This is a learnable skill and having a class where people can improve seems like a good option.  One of the best talks that I've ever heard was given by someone who was absolutely terrified to be up there (per his words and his shaking).  I so appreciated him sacrificing to that extent to share his words and experiences with us.  Being nervous is a weakness that I have so much grace and acceptance of.  

But there's a whole lot that goes into a talk that has nothing to do with nerves.  If we knew how to write more engaging and personal talks that were spirit-led, maybe that would help our services feel less like meetings and more like worship spirit to spirit?

(full disclosure, I'm sure I've given my share of bad talks before)

 

[Dario_M]

6 hours ago, Vanguard said:

My ward is particularly loud on any given Sunday with the screams of children throughout the meeting. 

Oh my.... i always find that so annoying. As if those children didn't enjoy a decent education so far. If those screams last the whole church service i seriously get to a point that i just could eat my hands up from all that frustration. 

[ZealouslyStriving]

7 hours ago, Vanguard said:

My ward is particularly loud on any given Sunday with the screams of children throughout the meeting. I know it's not helpful for me when I am critical of these families (I had 3  young ones myself!) but it seems these families err on the side of keeping their children in the meeting at almost any cost and much to the detriment of those sitting around them. I understand the argument of keeping the families together during the worship service but it definitely has it's downside. : (

And for those who are RMs, I'm sure we all have our 'war stories' of bringing investigators to sacrament mtg only to be left wholly unenthused with the speakers. And again, I understand the importance of the lay membership (and our youth) having a chance to speak publicly. Still, so many times the talks are simply dry/stale. It is an effort to remind myself that though I may not find anything of interest, this same talk could be positively affecting the speaker or someone in the congregation. I have fantasized about if I ever find myself in the role of Bishop, I would at least like to coordinate what I believe are our best speakers with those Sundays that are particularly important (Christmas, Easter, Independence Day, etc).  I would also like to see more music (solo, small ensemble) performed.

I'm sure I have more... ; ) 

Towards the end of my mission, I carried a kid back to his parents after he got up on the stand and made faces at the congregation while I was bearing my testimony. I just threw him over my shoulder and carried him to the back like it was just something normal to do. Needless to say I wasn't that kids favorite person after that ! 🤣

[sunstoned]

One notable aspect of having a largely lay ministry is that it allows everyone a chance to speak. I teach at a state university in Utah, and on several occasions, I have heard comments from out-of-state (and likely non-member) faculty expressing surprise at the high level of public speaking ability exhibited by most students.

[MiserereNobis]

I haven't been to LDS services since the change from the 3 hour block meetings.

Now, I am most definitely a high church guy, so it was harder for me to connect to the service. I did appreciate the reverence; I emphatically do not like pentecostal style meetings (the rock band, hand swaying someone else mentioned).

I'm not sure how this would work in your context, but it didn't seem like worship to me because the vast majority of the 3 hours was spent with people talking. Talks in sacrament meeting definitely felt like the focus of the meeting, then Sunday School was like a class (understandable because of what it is), but then priesthood meeting was also like a class. So it felt like classes and meetings instead of worship.

For me, the rituals focus my mind, spirit, and body on Christ, so that I am worshipping. In the traditional Latin mass, there are many moments when the priest sits and waits for the schola (Gregorian chant) to finish. The symbols all around me, such as statues, stained glass, stations of the cross, the altar, etc., allow me to stay focused and worship and/or pray. The music, in Latin, doesn't distract because of the language, honestly.

Again, I'm not sure how this would apply to your context, since LDS services are decidedly low church. But, could there be (approved) paintings on the walls? Could there be more contemplative music? Could the ritual of the sacrament be elaborated/extended or somehow made to feel like the center and focus of the meeting instead of something that is done early on and then all the talks occur? What if the talks were removed and a separate meeting held for the talks, so Sacrament Meeting didn't have announcements, business, etc., but just music, both congregation and choir, and sacrament?

Just some thoughts from the outside.

[ZealouslyStriving]

22 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I haven't been to LDS services since the change from the 3 hour block meetings.

Now, I am most definitely a high church guy, so it was harder for me to connect to the service. I did appreciate the reverence; I emphatically do not like pentecostal style meetings (the rock band, hand swaying someone else mentioned).

I'm not sure how this would work in your context, but it didn't seem like worship to me because the vast majority of the 3 hours was spent with people talking. Talks in sacrament meeting definitely felt like the focus of the meeting, then Sunday School was like a class (understandable because of what it is), but then priesthood meeting was also like a class. So it felt like classes and meetings instead of worship.

For me, the rituals focus my mind, spirit, and body on Christ, so that I am worshipping. In the traditional Latin mass, there are many moments when the priest sits and waits for the schola (Gregorian chant) to finish. The symbols all around me, such as statues, stained glass, stations of the cross, the altar, etc., allow me to stay focused and worship and/or pray. The music, in Latin, doesn't distract because of the language, honestly.

Again, I'm not sure how this would apply to your context, since LDS services are decidedly low church. But, could there be (approved) paintings on the walls? Could there be more contemplative music? Could the ritual of the sacrament be elaborated/extended or somehow made to feel like the center and focus of the meeting instead of something that is done early on and then all the talks occur? What if the talks were removed and a separate meeting held for the talks, so Sacrament Meeting didn't have announcements, business, etc., but just music, both congregation and choir, and sacrament?

Just some thoughts from the outside.

For Latter-day Saints studying and reasoning together are important forms of worship.

Besides that, I wouldn't be upset if we had a little more ceremony surrounding the administration of the sacrament.

[Senator]

49 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I haven't been to LDS services since the change from the 3 hour block meetings.

Now, I am most definitely a high church guy, so it was harder for me to connect to the service. I did appreciate the reverence; I emphatically do not like pentecostal style meetings (the rock band, hand swaying someone else mentioned).

I'm not sure how this would work in your context, but it didn't seem like worship to me because the vast majority of the 3 hours was spent with people talking. Talks in sacrament meeting definitely felt like the focus of the meeting, then Sunday School was like a class (understandable because of what it is), but then priesthood meeting was also like a class. So it felt like classes and meetings instead of worship.

For me, the rituals focus my mind, spirit, and body on Christ, so that I am worshipping. In the traditional Latin mass, there are many moments when the priest sits and waits for the schola (Gregorian chant) to finish. The symbols all around me, such as statues, stained glass, stations of the cross, the altar, etc., allow me to stay focused and worship and/or pray. The music, in Latin, doesn't distract because of the language, honestly.

Again, I'm not sure how this would apply to your context, since LDS services are decidedly low church. But, could there be (approved) paintings on the walls? Could there be more contemplative music? Could the ritual of the sacrament be elaborated/extended or somehow made to feel like the center and focus of the meeting instead of something that is done early on and then all the talks occur? What if the talks were removed and a separate meeting held for the talks, so Sacrament Meeting didn't have announcements, business, etc., but just music, both congregation and choir, and sacrament?

Just some thoughts from the outside.

I would absolutely be on board with doing away with sacrament meeting talks.  Frankly I feel we do to much talking.  
And sorry Bluebell,  if had to take a class in order to give better talks, on top of not wanting to talk to begin with, that would be a hard pass for me.