Changing Sacrament Meeting so that we Worship and don't just "Attend"

[Jeanne]

21 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

A few more examples:

Silent Night 

O Come All Ye Faithful

Jesus, the Very Thought of Thee

Lead, Kindly Light (written by Anglican Priest John Henry Newman, who later converted to Roman Catholicism, became a Cardinal, and was in recent years canonized a Saint)

Wow..I had no idea.  This was very interesting info.  Funny how growing up LDS makes one think that all these things belong to only the LDS church.

[Okrahomer]

15 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Wow..I had no idea.  This was very interesting info.  Funny how growing up LDS makes one think that all these things belong to only the LDS church.

These are all hymns I love and treasure.  We owe a lot to both our Catholic and Protestant brothers and Sisters.

[Calm]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Are we really part of the club? Are LDS hymns included in Protestant hymnals?

Greg Olsen was the number one Christian artist in Canada early 2000s, so I see it as possible if generic enough.

Edited February 24, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

Funny how growing up LDS makes one think that all these things belong to only the LDS church.

You never sung these Christmas songs in school?  Never occurred to me that most hymns were only LDS unless written by names I recognized.
 

 My memory says the old blue Hymnbook had dates associated with the lyricists/composers and obviously the ones older than 1830’s wouldn’t be LDS (I spent a lot of time as a kid going through the Hymnbook in Sacrament Meeting out of needing something to do besides sitting), but I knew quite a few songs were nonLDS in other ways…trying to remember how though.  Mom played the piano and organ, maybe we had sheet music that was obviously not LDS lying around.

I don’t remember my parents listening to Christian music on the radio or watching any religious programming on TV, so it couldn’t be that (I didn’t grow up in Utah).

Edited February 24, 2025 by Calm

[ZealouslyStriving]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Greg Olsen was the number one Christian artist in Canada early 2000s, so I see it as possible if generic enough.

I saw an Olsen in a Christian bookstore once. My immediate thought, " Do they know...?"

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I saw an Olsen in a Christian bookstore once. My immediate thought, " Do they know...?"

I found this out when a Christian art seller stopped by our church bookstore in Calgary where I worked for a bit to pick up some Greg Olsen prints as he had run out.  I think I asked him if he mentioned Olsen was Mormon to his customers and he just laughed, but I may have imagined that part of the conversation (I didn’t get the Mormons aren’t Christians vibe off of him, but it wasn’t a long conversation).

Edited February 24, 2025 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Can you explain more how improving our speaking ability could eliminate some members who should still be heard?  I'm not understanding how that could happen.

Generally I suppose it would help. Just a few questions… Would training be required or just recommended before being called on to speak? Would certain members be singled out for training? How about new members? Would someone have to screen each talk before it could be given? When and where would the training take place? Would a youth or child have to be trained? We have three  members who stutter and have some difficulty expressing themselves, but they are asked to speak. We have deaf members who speak through sign language. There are two or three very sweet sisters who are poorly educated and somewhat diminished in ability but are asked to speak. I suppose everyone could benefit, though. 

Edited February 24, 2025 by Bernard Gui

[Rain]

28 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Generally I suppose it would help. Just a few questions… Would training be required or just recommended before being called on to speak? Would certain members be singled out for training? How about new members? Would someone have to screen each talk before it could be given? When and where would the training take place? Would a youth or child have to be trained? We have three  members who stutter and have some difficulty expressing themselves, but they are asked to speak. We have deaf members who speak through sign language. There are two or three very sweet sisters who are poorly educated and somewhat diminished in ability but are asked to speak. I suppose everyone could benefit, though. 

The time I heard about it, either the youth or everyone were invited to come and the results were considered wonderful. It was not geered towards poor speakers. It was just a class to help people with speaking skills. Kind of like a bread making class for RS, but maybe done during Sunday School. Things like giving a good introduction. Composing the body of it. Timing. My guess is since it was for church talks it also included sharing scriptures, conference talks, personal experiences and testimonies. 

Edited February 24, 2025 by Rain

[Bernard Gui]

duplicate

Edited February 24, 2025 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

15 minutes ago, Rain said:

The time I heard about it, either the youth or everyone were invited to come and the results were considered wonderful. It was not geered towards poor speakers. It was just a class to help people with speaking skills. Kind of like a bread making class for RS, but maybe done during Sunday School. Things like giving a good introduction. Composing the body of it. Timing. My guess is since it was for church talks it also included sharing scriptures, conference talks, personal experiences and testimonies. 

We had speech festivals with such training in YMMIA when I was a teenager. And lots of other things such as two-and-half minute talks in Sunday School and the Public Speaking merit badge in Boy Scouts, but the times they have achanged. 

Sunday church time is limited and precious as it is. How about just putting training videos in LDS Library that can be viewed by those who want to improve. Really easy to do, IMO. They probably already exist somewhere in the Church’s educational resources. 

Edited February 24, 2025 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

Oh wait!

Speaking in Sacrament Meeting?

By John Hilton III and Mindy Raye Friedman

  You’ve been asked to speak in sacrament meeting. What do you do? First off, relax. Remember, the congregation is on your side, and everyone wants you to give a fabulous talk.

One of the purposes of sacrament meeting is to “provide gospel instruction” and to “strengthen faith and testimony” (Administering the Church [2010], 138). As a youth speaker, the Lord and your ward leaders have trusted you with part of this responsibility. You have the opportunity to teach and to inspire the members of your ward or branch. So, how can you write a meaningful talk? Here are some tips and ideas to consider as you prepare, organize, and deliver your talk.

  1. Prepare and Teach by the Spirit

 Doctrine and Covenants 42:14 tells us how to obtain the Spirit’s influence in our teaching: “And the Spirit shall be given unto you by the prayer of faith.” Start your talk preparations with sincere prayer. The Holy Ghost can “show unto you all things what ye should do” in preparing and giving your talk (2 Nephi 32:5). Ask God to enlighten your mind so you can understand what you are to speak about and how best to present the information.

An important part of this preparation is to start writing your talk as soon as you receive the assignment to give it. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland said, “May I encourage you to start thinking about and planning early for any [talk] that you are to give” (“Teaching and Learning in the Church” [worldwide leadership training meeting, Feb. 10, 2007], Ensign, June 2007, 90). Preparing early will give you more time to receive insights and inspiration.

   2. Organize

 As you prayerfully consider what to say in your talk, consider these four main elements, which can be organized in any order:

     Share a doctrine or principle related to your topic.

     Use scriptures to teach about the doctrine (see D&C 42:12; 52:9), and relate how they are important to the congregation.

     Tell faith-promoting experiences—especially ones from your own life.

     Bear your testimony of the topic and anything else you feel prompted to testify about.

     3. Speak from the Heart

 It is often better to prepare a simple outline of what you are to speak on instead of writing the talk out word for word and reading it. Reading a talk may tie you down to say exactly what is written instead of being able to adapt as the Holy Ghost gives you “in the very moment, what ye shall say” (D&C 100:6).

President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910–2008) taught, “We must … speak out of [our] hearts rather than out of [our] books” (Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley [1997], 619–20). By making your own experiences and testimony a vital part of your talk, you will be more likely to speak from your heart and affect those who hear your talk.

Remember, your ward leaders asked you to speak on the topic, so don’t just rely on the thoughts and stories of others. As you follow the Spirit in preparing and giving the talk, He will help you know what to say as you speak to your ward or branch members.

    Questions & Answers about Youth Talks

   Q. What is the purpose of a sacrament meeting talk?

 A. To provide gospel instruction and strengthen faith and testimony.

   Q. What should a sacrament meeting talk focus on?

 A. Talks should focus on gospel subjects that help members build faith and testimony.

   Q. Why does my bishop or branch president always have youth speakers?

 A. Ward leaders are actually instructed by Church headquarters to regularly invite youth ages 12 to 18 to speak briefly in sacrament meeting on assigned gospel subjects.

   Q. Can someone else write my talk for me?

 A. You should prepare your own talk, though the bishopric may encourage your parents to help.

   Q. What should I put in my talk?

 A. Teach the doctrines of the gospel, relate faith-promoting experiences, bear witness of divinely revealed truths, and use the scriptures (see D&C 42:12; 52:9). Teach in a spirit of love after prayerful preparation.

   Q. Is there anything I should avoid in my talk?

 A. You should not speak on subjects that are speculative, controversial, or out of harmony with Church doctrine.

   Q. What else do I need to remember?

 A. To maintain an atmosphere of reverent worship in sacrament meetings, when speakers use scriptures as part of their talks, they should not ask the congregation to open their own books to the scriptural references.

 Answers taken from Administering the Church (2010), 138–40.

    Tips for Preparation

     Start thinking about your topic as soon as you are assigned to speak.

     Pray for the Spirit to guide you as you determine what to say.

     Think about your own experiences with the topic and how you might share them.

     Read about the topic in the scriptures. Mark or write down things you feel inspired to use.

     Helpful Resources

 As you prepare your talk, remember the stories you have studied in the scriptures, and also consider studying the topic in these gospel references:

    Bible Dictionary: In the back of your Bible and online you can find definitions and scriptures by looking for your topic in the Bible Dictionary.

     Topical Guide: Also in the back of your Bible and online, the Topical Guide can help you look up scriptures on your topic.

     General conference: Talks given by Church leaders during general conference are a great resource for studying your topic. You can find conference reports in the May and November Ensign magazine issues or online at conference.lds.org. You can also find conference roundups with good quotes for youth in the May and November issues of the New Era.

     True to the Faith: A Gospel Reference: This booklet provides definitions and additional information on many gospel topics.

     For the Strength of Youth: Many of the topics you may be asked to speak on can be found in this booklet.

     LDS.org: On the Church’s official website, LDS.org, you can search for articles, talks, and other material for your topic. Just type your topic into the search bar near the top-right corner of the website.

     Youth.lds.org: At youth.lds.org, designed specifically for youth, you can explore more about the standards in For the Strength of Youth, find quotes and talks by Church leaders, and search for articles on your topic.

     Tips for Delivery

     Practice giving your talk in front of a mirror or a family member beforehand.

     Don’t start by telling everyone how unqualified you are or that you don’t want to be speaking.

     Make sure you speak slowly, clearly, and loudly enough for everyone to hear.

     Stand up straight as you speak.

     Try not to move your hands too much. For young women, if you tend to fidget with your hair or jewelry, consider wearing your hair back and leaving your jewelry at home.

     Don’t just read your talk with your head down. Look up as much as possible, and try to make eye contact with people in the congregation.

     If you get nervous, just pause and take a deep breath. Then move on with your talk.

[Rain]

1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

We had speech festivals with such training in YMMIA when I was a teenager. And lots of other things, too, but the times they have achanged. 

Sunday church time is limited and precious as it is. How about just putting training videos in LDS Library that can be viewed by those who want to improve. Really easy to do, IMO. 

Because 99% don't use them just like they do the tons of teaching resources the church puts out there. And there are just things you can learn better in a live class (as I learned in a teaching class at BYU Education Week.

If you found that a class like this improved talks so well that people listened better and then heard the Spirit better and it changed how they lived the gospel wouldn't you think that was time well spent? One class maybe every 5 years? 

 

I have shared those teaching resources that the church put out when people have asked online "I'm a new teacher, please help me know how to teach." Every time I did so people said, "you don't need those, just use the Spirit" as if using the tools the church provided was not part of the process of using the Spirit. Why, could a class like this not help people to feel the Spirit better both in giving and listening to a talk? 

[Bernard Gui]

Readers Digest version. 
 

How to Prepare a Sacrament Meeting Talk

By Elaine Witt

    Prepare your own talk instead of reading another person’s talk.

     Use one or more scriptures.

     Invite the Spirit as you prepare. Invite the spirit into your sacrament meeting by bearing testimony of what you believe to be true.

     Think of a personal story that relates to the gospel principle you have been assigned to talk about.  What did you learn from that experience? How did it help you?

     Practice, practice, practice.  Be sure your talk stays within the given time limit.

     Preparation Tools

     Narrow your topic.  

     Decide what you want the congregation to know, believe, feel and do.

     Write your message.

     Create an introduction and a conclusion.

     Your talk is not about you.

     You are bringing a gift.

     You are getting up to answer a silent prayer about how a person can get closer to God.

[Rain]

1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

Readers Digest version. 
 

How to Prepare a Sacrament Meeting Talk

By Elaine Witt

    Prepare your own talk instead of reading another person’s talk.

     Use one or more scriptures.

     Invite the Spirit as you prepare. Invite the spirit into your sacrament meeting by bearing testimony of what you believe to be true.

     Think of a personal story that relates to the gospel principle you have been assigned to talk about.  What did you learn from that experience? How did it help you?

     Practice, practice, practice.  Be sure your talk stays within the given time limit.

     Preparation Tools

     Narrow your topic.  

     Decide what you want the congregation to know, believe, feel and do.

     Write your message.

     Create an introduction and a conclusion.

     Your talk is not about you.

     You are bringing a gift.

     You are getting up to answer a silent prayer about how a person can get closer to God.

Again, a live class is going to do a much better job.  It isn't that these speakers are poor speakers (I still think John Hilton's talk "the Dog Ate My Scriptures" is a great talk and I still follow what he says about making choices), but the nature of the subject "talks" will be better in an in person class than reading about doing it or watching a video.

[Bernard Gui]

32 minutes ago, Rain said:

Because 99% don't use them just like they do the tons of teaching resources the church puts out there. And there are just things you can learn better in a live class (as I learned in a teaching class at BYU Education Week.

If you found that a class like this improved talks so well that people listened better and then heard the Spirit better and it changed how they lived the gospel wouldn't you think that was time well spent? One class maybe every 5 years? 

 

I have shared those teaching resources that the church put out when people have asked online "I'm a new teacher, please help me know how to teach." Every time I did so people said, "you don't need those, just use the Spirit" as if using the tools the church provided was not part of the process of using the Spirit. Why, could a class like this not help people to feel the Spirit better both in giving and listening to a talk? 

On-line courses from BYUI or Ensign College, Pathways, regional Zoom classes, and other educational resources are available. I think making training easily available on-line with frequent reminders or even offers of personal coaching when requested upon receiving a speaking invitation could be quite effective. Five years between classes or trying to fit it in with all the other SS classes we are supposed to be offering like teacher development, family history, self-reliance, family relations, etc., may not accomplish the purpose.

Group voice lessons to improve hymn singing? 🙂
Grooming tips for awkward new deacons? 🙂
Voice coaching for bishoprics to improve announcements and business items?🙂

Edited February 24, 2025 by Bernard Gui

[Rain]

18 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

On-line courses from BYUI or Ensign College, Pathways, regional Zoom classes, and other educational resources are available.

Yes, like I said.  And 99% of people don't use them.  But then there is so much to do like family history, reading your scriptures, community involvement, taking care of your family etc.  Who can blame them?

18 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think making training easily available on-line with frequent reminders or even offers of personal coaching when requested upon receiving a speaking invitation could be quite effective. Five years between classes or trying to fit it in with all the other SS classes we are supposed to be offering like teacher development, family history, self-reliance, family relations, etc., may not accomplish the purpose.

Group voice lessons to improve hymn singing? 🙂
Grooming tips for awkward new deacons? 🙂
Voice coaching for bishoprics to improve announcements and business items?🙂

It's weird to me that you are resisting this, but then it's weird to me when people resist those resources because the "Spirit is all you need". Those talks are a major part of church going in this church.  You seem to be looking at this as an entertainment study.  It is not.  It is giving people tools to better share what is in their heart.

 

Edited February 24, 2025 by Rain

[manol]

53 minutes ago, Rain said:

I have shared those teaching resources that the church put out when people have asked online "I'm a new teacher, please help me know how to teach." Every time I did so people said, "you don't need those, just use the Spirit" as if using the tools the church provided was not part of the process of using the Spirit. Why, could a class like this not help people to feel the Spirit better both in giving and listening to a talk? 

I agree with you.

When I was a missionary, we used a rather bold approach to the first discussion.  It was called "the Holy Ghost approach".  We'd start out with a few scriptures about the Holy Ghost and tell the person to pay attention to what they felt because the Holy Ghost would be present and would testify to them of the truth of our message.  Then we'd tell the story of the First Vision, each bear a one-quick-sentence testimony, and say to the person, "And now, what do you feel, in your heart?"  The percentage of times they acknowledged feeling the Holy Ghost was high.  But it was not as simple as I'm making it sound.

The mechanics of the presentation mattered!

Our job included creating a mini-environment which gave the Spirit the best possible chance to communicate directly to the person.  So we did our best to eliminate or at least minimize distractions.  We would ask that the TV in the next room be turned off.  We practiced teamwork and smooth transitions from one of us speaking to the other one speaking.  The non-speaking missionary supported attention being focused on the one speaking.  Even the way we handled the flip-chart was purposeful.  The still, small voice is not a very loud one so our job included giving it the best chance we could of being heard. 

My point being, if the goal is to teach by the Spirit, a teacher can make the Spirit's job easier by creating the best mini-environment they can.  And that involves getting the boring, mechanical, unspiritual details right as much as possible under the circumstances. 

In my opinion. 

Edited February 24, 2025 by manol

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Again, a live class is going to do a much better job.  It isn't that these speakers are poor speakers (I still think John Hilton's talk "the Dog Ate My Scriptures" is a great talk and I still follow what he says about making choices), but the nature of the subject "talks" will be better in an in person class than reading about doing it or watching a video.

Especially if one has a chance to practice and get feedback from someone besides your mother and therefore more realistic. (Though my parents were pretty demanding…which may have had the problem with making me more nervous).

Edited February 24, 2025 by Calm

[Peacefully]

On 2/22/2025 at 12:44 PM, bluebell said:

I just learned last night that Jesus Wants me for a Sunbeam wasn't written by an LDS person and is considered a Christian hymn.  I thought that was really interesting.  Why do you prefer LDS poets and composers? 

We sang that song in the church I grew up in. There are other songs in the green hymn book that are not exclusive to the LDS church like “How Great Thou Art” “Onward Christian Soldiers” most of the Christmas songs and the patriotic songs. Great lyricists and composers come from all religions and also the secular world, imo. 

Edited February 24, 2025 by Peacefully

[bluebell]

10 hours ago, Peacefully said:

We sang that song in the church I grew up in. There are other songs in the green hymn book that are not exclusive to the LDS church like “How Great Thou Art” “Onward Christian Soldiers” most of the Christmas songs and the patriotic songs. Great lyricists and composers come from all religions and also the secular world, imo. 

I was aware of the others, but the sunbeam song caught me off guard.  I had always assumed it was written for the sunbeam class in primary.  Now I'm guessing the sunbeam class was actually named after the song.   

[bluebell]

11 hours ago, Rain said:

 

It's weird to me that you are resisting this, but then it's weird to me when people resist those resources because the "Spirit is all you need". Those talks are a major part of church going in this church.  You seem to be looking at this as an entertainment study.  It is not.  It is giving people tools to better share what is in their heart.

 

I remember a time very distinctly when the spirit taught me that the spirit is not all you need.  It was a gentle but powerful rebuke that when it comes to teaching and speaking, we are not to lean on a shovel and pray for a hole. We have responsibilities in that relationship as well.

[Okrahomer]

On 2/24/2025 at 9:55 AM, bluebell said:

...the spirit is not all you need

This sounds like the title of great new LDS Book!

[Mfbnew]

On 2/22/2025 at 7:27 PM, halconero said:

Co-signed with our Catholic and Orthodox friends.

Sacrament services used to involve much more liturgical elements. Both Doctrine and Covenants 20 and Moroni 4/5 can be read to suggest that the entire congregation kneels with elder or priest administering the sacrament. For example:

Likewise:

The sacrament was also more tightly linked with temple worship, similar to how baptism is to this day. I think communal action and physicality in worship are key components of worshipping together.

🤔

And that exact gesture is used- or at least was- used by the priest in a Catholic mass.  I was an altar boy for years and I remember it all-before AND after Vatican II

There are MANY parallels between the two liturgies- so who got it "right"?

Before one has a vocabulary, there is nothing to talk about. 🤨

 

Edited February 26, 2025 by Mfbnew

[blackstrap]

Many many years ago my father told me of a time when the Church DID kneel for the sacrament. They also had a communal sacrament water cup. That was before the Spanish flu hit hard. To kneel today would require the removal of at least a third of the pews.

[MiserereNobis]

11 hours ago, blackstrap said:

They also had a communal sacrament water cup.

I think I asked this before but I'm fuzzy on the answer.

Is the Word of Wisdom the reason water is used instead of wine? Does it have to be water or is another liquid ok? I'm thinking grape juice might show the symbolism of blood better (the origin of Welch's!). Is it required to receive both bread and water? Are there any requirements on what kind of bread is used?