Changing Sacrament Meeting so that we Worship and don't just "Attend"

[Bernard Gui]

On 3/4/2025 at 2:15 PM, MiserereNobis said:

I asked because in Catholicism one needs to only receive the bread. Wine is optional. In fact, until 1970, only the priest received the wine. This was to enforce the doctrine that in both the bread and wine is the fullness of Christ's body, blood, soul, and divinity; one does not need to receive both in order to receive the fulness. 

The correct doctrine and practice of the sacrament is one of the greatest contributions of the Book of Mormon. When Jesus introduced the sacrament to the Nephites, He gave these instructions:

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3 Nephi  18:1 And it came to pass that Jesus commanded his disciples that they should bring forth some bread and wine unto him.

2 And while they were gone for bread and wine, he commanded the multitude that they should sit themselves down upon the earth.

3 And when the disciples had come with bread and wine, he took of the bread and brake and blessed it; and he gave unto the disciples and commanded that they should eat.

4 And when they had eaten and were filled, he commanded that they should give unto the multitude.

5 And when the multitude had eaten and were filled, he said unto the disciples: Behold there shall one be ordained among you, and to him will I give power that he shall break bread and bless it and give it unto the people of my church, unto all those who shall believe and be baptized in my name.

6 And this shall ye always observe to do, even as I have done, even as I have broken bread and blessed it and given it unto you.

7 And this shall ye do in remembrance of my body, which I have shown unto you. And it shall be a testimony unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.

8 And it came to pass that when he said these words, he commanded his disciples that they should take of the wine of the cup and drink of it, and that they should also give unto the multitude that they might drink of it.

9 And it came to pass that they did so, and did drink of it and were filled; and they gave unto the multitude, and they did drink, and they were filled.

10 And when the disciples had done this, Jesus said unto them: Blessed are ye for this thing which ye have done, for this is fulfilling my commandments, and this doth witness unto the Father that ye are willing  to do that which I have commanded you.

11 And this shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.

12 And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock.

13 But whoso among you shall do more or less than these are not built upon my rock, but are built upon a sandy foundation...

In Moroni 4 and 5, Moroni wrote the prayers that Jesus commanded the elders and priests to give when the sacrament was blessed.

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God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread  to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine [water] to the souls of all those who drink of  it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I fail to see the connection between that and making sacrament talks better. The one is a commandment and fundamental practice and the other is something nice to do. I don't think they are on the same level of importance, but we can disagree.

It's not just something nice to do though, many members would see making sacrament meeting more edifying for everyone (speaker and listener together) as also being a scriptural mandate.  

[Calm]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

It's not just something nice to do though, many members would see making sacrament meeting more edifying for everyone (speaker and listener together) as also being a scriptural mandate.  

I would classify working on quality of talks in the same category I would classify promoting reverence, both I believe can contribute to a more spiritual environment as both improve levels of communication, with reverence lowering distractions for both those who are trying harder to be reverent and those benefiting from that effort by no longer getting their focus on the sacrament, singing, or talks getting pulled away by random noise or disruptive behaviour.  I would include working on improving talks in the same category as improving music by not just pulling some random person out of the audience to play the sacrament hymn on the organ, for example, but even making it a calling, one which most organists I have known spend a good deal of time during the week practicing while prior they spent years in classes perfecting their art.

I think Joseph Smith is a great example.  If anyone had the ability to access the Spirit in the modern church he did, but when he had the chance, he added to his spiritual abilities through taking classes from those with better skills or at least used their help, such as educated scribes that allowed for better communication of his ideas/teachings.  He often used ideas in his sermons that he had picked up in his studies.

Edited March 6, 2025 by Calm

[MiserereNobis]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

The correct doctrine and practice of the sacrament is one of the greatest contributions of the Book of Mormon. When Jesus introduced the sacrament to the Nephites, He gave these instructions:

It appears to me that the correct practice of the sacrament given by Jesus to the Nephites, one of the greatest contributions of the Book of Mormon, declares that wine should be used 😉

[Chum]

44 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

It appears to me that the correct practice of the sacrament given by Jesus to the Nephites, one of the greatest contributions of the Book of Mormon, declares that wine should be used 😉

I always thought an Italy based church should use pepperoni for the Eucharist. 

We could run each other's churches for a bit, see what we come up with...

[MiserereNobis]

11 minutes ago, Chum said:

I always thought an Italy based church should use pepperoni for the Eucharist. 

We could run each other's churches for a bit, see what we come up with...

Nice try! Pepperoni is American, not Italian. Typical from an American based church 😉😊

[MustardSeed]

11 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

It appears to me that the correct practice of the sacrament given by Jesus to the Nephites, one of the greatest contributions of the Book of Mormon, declares that wine should be used 😉

I’ve been thinking a lot about how you might respond and I gotta say I didn’t expect this- to which I say well done. 😏

[Stormin' Mormon]

11 hours ago, Chum said:

I always thought an Italy based church should use pepperoni for the Eucharist. 

We could run each other's churches for a bit, see what we come up with...

Oh man, during the COVID-era when we were doing sacrament in our homes, I may have gotten a little out of line with the food-stuff we used in our home for our sacrament.  It may have started with Wheat Thins, but you better believe that we had at least one family sacrament meeting with Costco muffins.  

[Bernard Gui]

On 3/5/2025 at 10:40 PM, MiserereNobis said:

It appears to me that the correct practice of the sacrament given by Jesus to the Nephites, one of the greatest contributions of the Book of Mormon, declares that wine should be used 😉

For the Nephites, yes, but for our dispensation water is the divinely approved sacramental substance for various reasons, the most obvious being the Word of Wisdom and the universal availability of water compared with wine in modern times. The covenants and procedures are exactly the same. 

This is quite consistent with Jesus’ words and the many scriptural references to the sanctifying power of water - washings, living water, water of life, among which…..

“If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’”

“I am the Alpha and the Omega—the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give freely from the springs of the water of life.”

“I beheld that the rod of iron…was the word of God, which led to the fountain of living waters, or to the tree of life; which waters are a representation of the love of God.”

“But unto him that keepeth my commandments I will give the mysteries of my kingdom, and the same shall be in him a well of living water, springing up unto everlasting life.”

”The Lord will guide you always; he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
    and will strengthen your frame. You will be like a well-watered garden,   like a spring whose waters never fail.”

”And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promisedst them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them.”

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Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water?
Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”
Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” 

Water is the medium of baptism, so it can also appropriately be the medium in the renewing ordinance of that covenant.

I think we’re ok. 🙂

Edited March 7, 2025 by Bernard Gui