The Other Covid Thread

[strappinglad]

Hey guys, easy on Raingirl. An upvote is a ' Yay ' from the gallery and a downvote is a 'Boo ' . Otherwise one will quote from the post and engage that way. 

As far a " almost completely preventable " , I took that as referring to the 14 deaths ,not to getting covid in any form. Severe illness and death from covid are WAY less among the fully vaccinated than the unvaccinated. Our society is used to the idea that a vaccine , like measles or small pox , is almost completely effective at preventing the illness . In my area the yearly flu jab is rarely referred to as getting the flu vaccine but as  getting the flu shot because we know it is iffy at best. 

ETA I see pogi clarified just now. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by strappinglad

[MacGyver]

6 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

An upvote is a ' Yay ' from the gallery and a downvote is a 'Boo '

Have you ever been to a sporting event? There's a big difference between cheering and booing from the stands.

Edited January 8, 2022 by MacGyver

[Stargazer]

9 minutes ago, pogi said:

Context is important.  I was talking about deaths, not catching the virus.  The amount of daily deaths is unacceptable and almost completely preventable.

Well, I guess I was spouting all that text for nothing, then. 

Wouldn't be the first time. Sigh.

[Stargazer]

49 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Well, then it sure would be nice to know why she finds the posts she downvotes especially egregious.

Her current method of downvoting without engaging in the actual discussion, is akin to booing from the peanut gallery. At least that's how I perceive it. 

LOL! I almost downvoted your post just for the fun of it!

[MacGyver]

@Raingirl just downvoted my post on this thread asking about why she does this. Didn't see that coming. 😎

@Raingirlwould you mind explaining why you feel the need to downvote posts so much? I would really like to know why you boo from the stands instead of engaging in the conversation.

[Nemesis]

Knock off the personal off topic posts.
 

Nemesis

[Stargazer]

9 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

@Raingirl just downvoted my post on this thread asking about why she does this. Didn't see that coming. 😎

@Raingirlwould you mind explaining why you feel the need to downvote posts so much? I would really like to know why you boo from the stands instead of engaging in the conversation.

My theory is that she already knows she can't convince you (or me) to change our minds (or lack of same), and so this is just an economical way to register disagreement without wasting good verbiage to no particular purpose. And to let us know that, yeah, she's watching us! 👀

I'm getting used to it. 🙂 

[Stargazer]

1 minute ago, Nemesis said:

Knock off the personal off topic posts.
 

Nemesis

But Nemesis! It's fun!  

Sheesh. OK, then.

Spoilsport.

[Hamba Tuhan]

14 hours ago, Navidad said:

I have a Winnie the Pooh and Piglet tattoo on my  right arm. I know, I know, even if I join, I'll never get a temple recommend for that sin! 

I'm assuming you meant that last line in light-hearted jest.

When I was studying in America, I went to the temple one evening, and the session was held up for a few minutes to accommodate some late arrivals. I was in the back row of seats, so when these two men walked in, they sat next to me. They both had long beards that reached to their laps, and very large tattoos extended above their collars and past their cuffs.

Afterwards, I caught up with them in the change room and started to chat. They had both joined the Church in Oakland, California, after one of them had been given a copy of the Book of Mormon. To celebrate their one-year anniversary as members, they had received their temple blessings in Oakland. Thrilled with that experience, they had then jumped onto their Harleys and started a 'temple crawl' of the Western United States.

So yeah, you're going to have to come up with something far worse than Pooh and Piglet if you want us to keep you out of the House of the Lord.

[bsjkki]

 

[Duncan]

13 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

 

Also from the BBC

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-59901547

less deadly is still deadly-dead is dead regardless of the source

[bsjkki]

Just now, Duncan said:

Also from the BBC

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-59901547

less deadly is still deadly-dead is dead regardless of the source

Percentages matter when making public health policy. Just sharing information. 

[SkyRock]

38 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Percentages matter when making public health policy. Just sharing information. 

Exactly.   No need to radically change society for a flu/cold.  Vulnerable people should take precautions and the rest should live their lives.   Those captured by their fears can live accordingly, but the rest can just move on.

[Navidad]

13 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm assuming you meant that last line in light-hearted jest.

When I was studying in America, I went to the temple one evening, and the session was held up for a few minutes to accommodate some late arrivals. I was in the back row of seats, so when these two men walked in, they sat next to me. They both had long beards that reached to their laps, and very large tattoos extended above their collars and past their cuffs.

Afterwards, I caught up with them in the change room and started to chat. They had both joined the Church in Oakland, California, after one of them had been given a copy of the Book of Mormon. To celebrate their one-year anniversary as members, they had received their temple blessings in Oakland. Thrilled with that experience, they had then jumped onto their Harleys and started a 'temple crawl' of the Western United States.

So yeah, you're going to have to come up with something far worse than Pooh and Piglet if you want us to keep you out of the House of the Lord.

Yes, I said that in jest. I would guess that tattoos are not the problem today that at one time they were in either the LDS or the Mennonite church!  Best wishes.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Percentages matter when making public health policy. Just sharing information. 

Total deaths can still be far higher than the flu when it is way more infectious.  Often, less deadly viruses (by rate) are responsible for far more death (by total volume).  

For example, Marburg virus (one of the most nasty and deadly viruses out there) is not going to influence public policy in the same way that Omicron should.  Marburg may be more deadly by rate, but Omicron will most certainly be more deadly in gross numbers, by far.  

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, SkyRock said:

Exactly.   No need to radically change society for a flu/cold.  Vulnerable people should take precautions and the rest should live their lives.   Those captured by their fears can live accordingly, but the rest can just move on.

Colds don't kill people. How about this you get covid and pass it onto someone else who then dies. How would you feel?  We are all vulnerable.  The vaccinated are "captured" by the fear that the unvaccinated don't care about anyone else but themselves and so have to "radically" change society fit them-it sucks for everyone who got the shots that others won't and are now flooding the hospitals. It would be nice to be over covid but some are chicken to get vaccinated and we are stuck again because of them.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Duncan

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

Total deaths can still be far higher than the flu when it is way more infectious.  Often, less deadly viruses (by rate) are responsible for far more death (by total volume).  

For example, Marburg virus (one of the most nasty and deadly viruses out there) is not going to influence public policy in the same way that Omicron should.  Marburg may be more deadly by rate, but Omicron will most certainly be more deadly in gross numbers, by far.  

But (and I say this with respect), when you have a virus with an R0 above 10, that is airborne, and one that spreads before symptoms present; that is an unstoppable virus - short of shutting down the entire economy. Even with a complete shutdown we would only slow it since a true shutdown is impossible. Since we have vaccines and treatments, and we don’t have a way to stop it, can’t we rejoice in the fact that this latest variant has a much lower fatality rate? 

[SkyRock]

39 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Colds don't kill people. How about this you get covid and pass it onto someone else who then dies. How would you feel?  We are all vulnerable.  The vaccinated are "captured" by the fear that the unvaccinated don't care about anyone else but themselves and so have to "radically" change society fit them-it sucks for everyone who got the shots that others won't and are now flooding the hospitals. It would be nice to be over covid but some are chicken to get vaccinated and we are stuck again because of them.

Old folks and sick folks die every year from what are mild respiratory illnesses for everyone else.  It is normal. 

Do you remember the 2017-2018 winter?  My ward, with lots of old folks, had 1 to 2 deaths a week for 3 months.  

BTW latest research on the current variant shows most current deaths are double and triple vaxxed, and the majority in hospitals are double and triple vaxxed.  The non-vaxxed are hospitalized at lower rates than the vaxxed now.

Saying someone is "chicken" for not wanting to take an experimental gene therapy is an odd statement, especially now that the vax is not only shown to be deadly for many, but ineffective.  

One of my sisters, a health care worker, got vaxxed right away a year ago and had blood clots in her brain soon after and had to have emergency brain surgery to prevent her death.   Good thing she wasn't a chicken, I guess.   She even got Delta during the surge, so it didn't even protect her from that. 

[Robert J Anderson]

31 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

But (and I say this with respect), when you have a virus with an R0 above 10, that is airborne, and one that spreads before symptoms present; that is an unstoppable virus - short of shutting down the entire economy. Even with a complete shutdown we would only slow it since a true shutdown is impossible. Since we have vaccines and treatments, and we don’t have a way to stop it, can’t we rejoice in the fact that this latest variant has a much lower fatality rate? 

I think we should.  It seems to be holding true that the death rate is a lot lower and thank goodness for that!

[Duncan]

16 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

Old folks and sick folks die every year from what are mild respiratory illnesses for everyone else.  It is normal. 

Do you remember the 2017-2018 winter?  My ward, with lots of old folks, had 1 to 2 deaths a week for 3 months.  

BTW latest research on the current variant shows most current deaths are double and triple vaxxed, and the majority in hospitals are double and triple vaxxed.  The non-vaxxed are hospitalized at lower rates than the vaxxed now.

Saying someone is "chicken" for not wanting to take an experimental gene therapy is an odd statement, especially now that the vax is not only shown to be deadly for many, but ineffective.  

One of my sisters, a health care worker, got vaxxed right away a year ago and had blood clots in her brain soon after and had to have emergency brain surgery to prevent her death.   Good thing she wasn't a chicken, I guess.   She even got Delta during the surge, so it didn't even protect her from that. 

I don't agree we should disregard the old and vulnerable of society (James1:27)

I don't live in your country so our winter would have been different

that's totally and completely false about the vaccinated ending up on hospitals more than the unvaccinated

if your sister wasn't vaxxed it could have ended up a lot worse for her so be thankful she got vaccinated

if the vaccine was more deadly than not getting it there would have been more deaths-it's the unvaxxed who are dying and and you say society is "radically" changing for these idiots

I know a ton of people of got covid and say they weren't vigilant against it and you get what you get.

 

Are you part of a pro covid death cult or something?

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Duncan

[Raingirl]

10 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

Old folks and sick folks die every year from what are mild respiratory illnesses for everyone else.  It is normal. 

Do you remember the 2017-2018 winter?  My ward, with lots of old folks, had 1 to 2 deaths a week for 3 months.  

BTW latest research on the current variant shows most current deaths are double and triple vaxxed, and the majority in hospitals are double and triple vaxxed.  The non-vaxxed are hospitalized at lower rates than the vaxxed now.

Saying someone is "chicken" for not wanting to take an experimental gene therapy is an odd statement, especially now that the vax is not only shown to be deadly for many, but ineffective.  

One of my sisters, a health care worker, got vaxxed right away a year ago and had blood clots in her brain soon after and had to have emergency brain surgery to prevent her death.   Good thing she wasn't a chicken, I guess.   She even got Delta during the surge, so it didn't even protect her from that. 

CFR on your third paragraph. 

[SkyRock]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

I don't agree we should disregard the old and vulnerable of society

I don't live in your country so our winter would have been different

that's totally and completely false about the vaccinated ending up on hospitals more than the unvaccinated

I know a ton of people of got covid and say they weren't vigilant against it and you get what you get.

 

Are you part of a pro covid death cult or something?

 

 

In the spirit of your post, I must ask are you possessed by a demon or just part of an anti freedom group guided by the original hater of freedom, Lucifer?

I don't believe we should disregard the old.  We also shouldn't sacrifice the young for the old.  The average age of a Covid death is well above the average life expectancy.  

We should use the best treatments to protect the old, but that isn't the same as punishing the rest of the world.  

My 86 year old father has Covid a year ago recovering from major surgery and it was a mild cold for him.  That is expected given the survival rates, which are still very high for people in his age range. 

[SkyRock]

9 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

CFR on your third paragraph. 

Do your own research.  Most people posting CFR have no desire to review the references.

There is plenty of info, but you need to focus on other countries besides the US, which has poor reporting standards. 

[Raingirl]

3 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

Do your own research.  Most people posting CFR have no desire to review the references.

There is plenty of info, but you need to focus on other countries besides the US, which has poor reporting standards. 

Refusing a CFR violates the TOS that you agreed to when you joined. You are the one who made specific claims of fact, so the responsibility is on you to provide your sources. 

I am sure your refusal to provide sources means you don’t actually have any. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

But (and I say this with respect), when you have a virus with an R0 above 10, that is airborne, and one that spreads before symptoms present; that is an unstoppable virus - short of shutting down the entire economy. Even with a complete shutdown we would only slow it since a true shutdown is impossible. Since we have vaccines and treatments, and we don’t have a way to stop it, can’t we rejoice in the fact that this latest variant has a much lower fatality rate? 

I agree that it is unstoppable.  I also agree that we should rejoice that it is less deadly.  I am not advocating for shutdowns with Omicron, but other public health measures may still be indicated.   

Here in Salt Lake County, even the super-conservative legislature has allowed for a 30 day mask mandate.  I was SHOCKED that they let it pass as they have turned down every effort.   The sky-rocketing positive cases are driving hospitalizations and overburdening the health care system.  I think both the vaccine and mask mandates that are in place are appropriate with what we are seeing.