pogi Posted January 13, 2022 Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Robert J Anderson said: What's the point of getting tested when it is just like a cold? What difference does it make if you know that you have omicron or only have a cold when the symptoms are practically the same? Treatment doesn't change whether it is a cold or omicron. So, why does it matter? Are people more reckless if they think they have a cold? When I had a cold prior to covid, I tried to stay away from people and I think people still do. I don't think anyone wants to infect others, just like they didn't want to prior to covid. I was sick for the last two weeks in December. I didn't get tested but stayed away from others while I was sick. Am I missing something? Omicron has many faces, cold like symptoms is just one. Some end up in the hospital and some die. It is not known yet what percentage suffer long Covid symptoms either, but it is not a few. As far as infecting others, you’d be shocked at how many are oblivious to common courtesy and decency of staying away from others when sick. I have to screen all of my patients and ask if they are feeling sick. You’d be shocked! If someone tests positive they are much more likely to isolate properly than if they had a simple cold. Edited January 13, 2022 by pogi 4
Chum Posted January 13, 2022 Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) We have a study that indicates cannabis compounds may be able to reduce infection rates by (what sounds like) gumming up SARS-CoV-2 protein spikes. Quote The researchers found that two cannabinoid acids commonly found in hemp varietals of cannabis, cannabigerolic acid, or CBGA, and cannabidiolic acid, also known as CBDA, can bind to the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. By binding to the spike protein, the compounds can prevent the virus from entering cells and causing infection CBDA and CBGA blocked the action of emerging variants of the virus that causes Covid-19, saying that "our research showed the hemp compounds were equally effective against variants of SARS-CoV-2, including variant B.1.1.7, which was first detected in the United Kingdom, and variant B.1.351, first detected in South Africa". “These cannabinoid acids are abundant in hemp and in many hemp extracts,” (Alt headlines to write themselves.) Edited January 13, 2022 by Chum 2
pogi Posted January 13, 2022 Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) It looks like SCOTUS blocked the vaccine mandate for businesses but kept it for health care workers. https://apple.news/Aotqt5SMPT7unu5R3lra3BQ Edited January 13, 2022 by pogi 1
ksfisher Posted January 13, 2022 Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) Study shows COVID-19 vaccines offer lasting protection Research suggests boosters can provide ongoing prevention of hospitalization and death Despite breakthrough infections, a new study shows a COVID-19 vaccine is effective nine months after the first shot. The findings, based on data on 10.6 million North Carolina residents, support use of boosters to provide ongoing prevention of hospitalization and death from COVID-19. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220112181353.htm The study found that effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines in reducing the risk of COVID-19 reached a peak of about 95% at two months after the first dose and then gradually declined. At seven months, the Pfizer vaccine dropped to 67% effectiveness, compared to the Moderna vaccine, which maintained 80% effectiveness. Effectiveness for the Johnson & Johnson adenovirus vaccine was 75% at one month after injection and fell to 60% after five months. All three vaccines were effective at keeping people out of the hospital due to severe COVID-19. Effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine reached a peak of 96% at two months and remained around 90% at seven months; effectiveness of the Moderna vaccine reached a peak of 97% at two months and remained at 94% at seven months. Effectiveness of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine reached a peak of 86% at two months and was higher than 80% through six months. Edited January 13, 2022 by ksfisher 3
rongo Posted January 13, 2022 Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, pogi said: It looks like SCOTUS blocked the vaccine mandate for businesses but kept it for health care workers. https://apple.news/Aotqt5SMPT7unu5R3lra3BQ That was expected (split decision). ASU/UofA had left in their vaccine mandate for employees, NAU (or children's school) had suspended it pending the Supreme Court decision. Our son had already been granted a religious exemption, so it was moot as far as he was concerned. I think the OSHA argument was flawed from the outset, and they knew it, but wanted to drag it out as long as possible to get as many businesses as possible to implement their own mandates. The Biden administration kept undermining its argument by delaying implementation (if the threat was as imminent as they insisted, then how could they continually and repeatedly delay enforcement due to pressure, employment shortages, etc.?). It would also have been the first time in history that OSHA had a rule to protect workers from something that isn't a workplace hazard, and is ubiquitous everywhere else, too. 2
pogi Posted January 14, 2022 Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, rongo said: Our son had already been granted a religious exemption, so it was moot as far as he was concerned. I thought the church told members not to use our religion as an exemption for vaccination. 2 hours ago, rongo said: I think the OSHA argument was flawed from the outset The argument seemed to work for healthcare workers at least. Edited January 14, 2022 by pogi
rongo Posted January 14, 2022 Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, pogi said: I thought the church told members not to use our religion as an exemption for vaccination. No, the Church said in California that bishops we're not authorized to write letters of exemption for people. What private individuals feel God has told them personally is "deeply held religious belief." On cross-examination, he was asked what his religious affiliation is, and his reply was that that is irrelevant to his deeply held religious belief, which is that God has told him personally not to take the Covid vaccine. He was also asked why he had gotten MMR, TDaP, etc , and his reply was that he doesn't object to vaccination in general; his religious exemption pertains only to the Covid vaccines. It was granted soon upon receiving his reply to the follow-up letter. ETA: I also found it interesting that he was asked for examples of God communicating with him before, and he gave several examples. I think they could tell that he wasn't the hill they wanted to die on. Had they remained firm, he would have threatened a lawsuit under Titles IV and VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but it never came to that. Edited January 14, 2022 by rongo
Rain Posted January 14, 2022 Posted January 14, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 10:23 PM, Calm said: Makes sense to me. The amount could be unjust though. If insurance costs go up because of a significant amount of people choose to smoke, would it seem unfair to charge the smokers a higher premium? I am pretty sure at some point smoking made insurance higher for us. Don't remember if that was recently or not.
Peacefully Posted January 14, 2022 Posted January 14, 2022 My daughter found out today that my grandson’s daycare will be closed until the 24th so the school can be thoroughly cleaned. Two toddlers in his class have contracted COVID in the last week. These are the first cases that we know of since he started there a year ago. They are extremely careful with teachers wearing masks, and no parents allowed in the school, but most of these kids are too young for vaccines, so here we are. Hopefully, the two who have it have mild cases, but I don’t have any details. It’s scary when the littles start getting it:(
rongo Posted January 14, 2022 Posted January 14, 2022 This was interesting. I get daily Medpage emails through Blue Cross Blue Shield (my health insurance). From Dr. Paul Offit: https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/healthpolicy/96635 "Following the FDA's authorization and CDC's recommendation that all kids ages 12-17 years should receive COVID-19 booster shots, Paul Offit, MD, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, reflects on the U.S. vaccine strategy. Offit, who serves on the FDA's Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee, also examines some of the missteps in communicating with the public during the pandemic. "Recently, what we did is that we recommended a booster dose for children between 12 and 15 years of age. What percentage of children in that age group have been fully vaccinated? About 50%. That means 50% haven't been vaccinated. Does it really make sense to focus on further protecting people who are already protected against serious illness? Or should we really devote our resources to protecting those who are completely unprotected? If you work in a hospital, as I do, and you see children between 12 and 15 years of age coming into your hospital, they're not there because they haven't gotten a third dose, they're there because they haven't gotten any doses. I mean, this really is, at least at the hospital level, a disease for the unvaccinated, and that has to be our focus. I just feel like to some extent we've kind of given up on that, and this constant talk about boosting is in many ways a detour. The question is, what do we want from this vaccine? If what we want from this vaccine is protection against serious illness, the current two-dose vaccine strategy for mRNA vaccines, or the two-dose strategy for the J&J [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine, offers protection against serious illness, right up to the present time for all age groups. So if that's the goal, we've reached it. If, on the other hand, the goal is to try and also protect against mild illness, which will fade over time, then you can argue for giving a booster dose, realizing that the protection against mild illness that you're getting from that booster dose will probably last for about 3 to 4 months. I think there's been a number of miscommunications regarding these vaccines. For example, a year ago, when in December, we, the FDA vaccine advisory committee, considered the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine. What you saw was 95% efficacy against mild illness. That was remarkably high. The reason it was so high is that those were 3-month studies. In other words, most participants in those studies had recently received their second dose. So neutralizing antibodies were high and therefore effectiveness against mild illness was high. There was no way that was going to last. Neutralizing antibodies had to come down and therefore protection against mild illness also had to come down. The second miscommunication, I think, occurred on July 4 of last year when thousands of men got together and celebrated the holiday in Provincetown, Massachusetts. Roughly 80% of them were fully vaccinated. Nonetheless, 346 of those men developed COVID; 346 fully vaccinated men developed COVID. Four of those 346 went to the hospital, for a hospitalization rate of 1.2%. That's great. That's a vaccine that's working well. The other 342 had mild illness or asymptomatic infections. Those infections were called breakthrough infections, and that [term] should have never been determined that we should use that. The term "breakthrough" implies failure. That's not a failure. What you want from these vaccines is, you want protection against severe illness. For vaccines like the influenza vaccine or the rotavirus vaccine, or the pertussis or whooping cough vaccine, you get excellent protection against moderate-to-severe disease, but not very good protection against asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic effects. That would also be true for this vaccine, and I think we inadvertently kind of damned this vaccine by holding it up to a bar that it's almost impossible to reach. What makes Omicron difficult is, although everybody talks about how it's more contagious, it technically is really not more contagious. The contagiousness index for Delta was between 5 and 9. So what contagiousness index means is that, if it's a contagious index of 5, for example, that would mean that if I had the infection and I went about my normal day and came in contact with everybody who was susceptible, I would infect five more people. The contagiousness index for Omicron is probably somewhere between 3 and 5. There's no evidence that it's more contagious. The problem with Omicron is that it is, to some extent, immune evasive. So even if you're vaccinated, you still might get a mild infection. If you look, for example, at Delta and Omicron in a home of unvaccinated people, it's really equally spread. However, if you look at Delta and Omicron in a home where people are vaccinated or even vaccinated and boosted, you're much more likely to still get a mild illness with Omicron, than you would have with Delta. And that's the problem with Omicron. Even people who are vaccinated can have a mild illness. And that's why you see this huge increase in cases, but don't see a proportional huge increase in hospitalizations and deaths. 1
bsjkki Posted January 14, 2022 Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10403061/Covid-surges-44-states-slowing-experts-predict-cases-coming-weeks.html Edited January 14, 2022 by bsjkki 1
bsjkki Posted January 14, 2022 Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1482005102252765190?s=20 *not raw numbers. Edited January 14, 2022 by bsjkki 1
Calm Posted January 15, 2022 Author Posted January 15, 2022 https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacharysmith/2022/01/14/trash-stays-on-curbs-across-the-us-as-covid-infects-sanitation-workers/?
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 I have Covid. I’m not really enjoying it. Just sayin. 4
bsjkki Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 55 minutes ago, katherine the great said: I have Covid. I’m not really enjoying it. Just sayin. I hope you recover quickly. My niece has covid again. One year later so I guess that puts a limit on natural immunity. I am hearing of more people getting it twice. 3
Calm Posted January 15, 2022 Author Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, katherine the great said: I have Covid. I’m not really enjoying it. Just sayin. Good luck. I am pretty sure mine is just a cold as it came on within an hour of the dentist like it has before…throat gets raw from treatment and then I push myself and poof, cold. Husband tested negative two days before and I haven’t gone anywhere else. Still possiblity. It has been years since I got a cold and two within a month…seems weird. No taste or smell issue when my nose is unclogged enough to manage. Edited January 15, 2022 by Calm 1
Calm Posted January 15, 2022 Author Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) On 1/14/2022 at 10:59 PM, bsjkki said: I hope you recover quickly. My niece has covid again. One year later so I guess that puts a limit on natural immunity. I am hearing of more people getting it twice. Like Glen Beck, apparently thought natural immunity was better than a vaccine (he had an article in DN iirc). I surfed a lot the past two days Edited January 16, 2022 by Calm
CA Steve Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 8 hours ago, bsjkki said: I hope you recover quickly. My niece has covid again. One year later so I guess that puts a limit on natural immunity. I am hearing of more people getting it twice. My older sister just recovered from her third bout. The first time she was unvaccinated and it nearly killed her, there were no vaccines at the time, the second time was mild and this time she was asymptomatic but got tested because she had been exposed. She is fully vaccinated. 4
bsjkki Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Calm said: Like Glen Beck, apparently thought natural immunity was better than a vaccine (he had an article in DN iirc. I surfed a lot the past two days The vaccines aren’t good after a year either. We don’t have hospitalization data on repeat cases or severe illness data. The vaccines don’t prevent transmission. We don’t know much about natural immunity because the CDC pretends it doesn’t exist. Even though, it is what vaccines try to mimic. Edited January 15, 2022 by bsjkki
Calm Posted January 15, 2022 Author Posted January 15, 2022 36 minutes ago, bsjkki said: he vaccines aren’t good after a year either. We don’t have hospitalization data on repeat cases or severe illness data. Either natural immunity or vaccinated, some form of vaccination to lessen any future Covid seems in order. What are they saying about any long term damage even in mild? Are they clear there isn’t any or could the scarring show up in mild as well?
bsjkki Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 21 minutes ago, Calm said: Either natural immunity or vaccinated, some form of vaccination to lessen any future Covid seems in order. What are they saying about any long term damage even in mild? Are they clear there isn’t any or could the scarring show up in mild as well? I hope not because Omicron is infecting a lot of people regardless of natural immunity or vaccine. 1
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 17 minutes ago, bsjkki said: I hope not because Omicron is infecting a lot of people regardless of natural immunity or vaccine. I suspect Omicron is what I have. I’m vaccinated and boosted and wear a mask when I go inside buildings. Headache, a bit of a cough, runny and stuffy nose, just a bit of tightness in throat and chest but not too bad. The headache is the worst part for me. Ibuprofen helps. 3
Chum Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, bsjkki said: I hope not because Omicron is infecting a lot of people regardless of natural immunity or vaccine. 'Regardless' may carry an incorrect hint that immunity and vaccines have no effect on Omicron. A better fit might be that Omicron is infecting more people but those with immunity and vaccines can expect markedly reduced severity.
Chum Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 2 hours ago, bsjkki said: The vaccines don’t prevent transmission. This phrasing seems out of harmony with the nature of vaccines in general. Effective vaccines boost immunity, leading to reductions in incidents and severity. I'm not aware of any vaccine that boasts an outcome as absolute as prevention. Hugely successful vaccines fall short in >0 cases.
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