The Other Covid Thread

[Calm]

Even I blow it and post about mandates just after asking people not to.  I don’t always check the title of the thread before I post and was thinking in church Covid thread. 
 

Last nonmedical Covid thread got locked iirc, they usually get too political eventually. Try to keep this thread politic lite please to avoid locking. 
 

This is for discussion of all things Covid that are not medical info, such as mandates, mask warring behaviours…that was supposed to be wearing, but think I will leave as is (includes masks outside of church for sure, but I will poach posts on church mask wearing from rongo’s thread without shame  ), government announcements, travel restrictions, etc. Basically anything not science.  
 

Thank you for keeping Covid III pure.  

[rodheadlee]

We got our booster jabs today. No side effects. Did I mention that I hate wearing a mask? My nose runs like the local river.

 

 

[Rivers]

I’ve been a so-called  frontline worker for the last two years. I have decided that I am now tired of Covid.  But I realize this thing is endemic and it’s not going away.  I’ve seen a lot of suffering and death caused by Covid.  Many who survive become severely debilitated and end up spending months in rehab centers and long-term care facilities.   The vaccine is a Godsend yet many refuse to get it and suffer a severe consequence.   The majority of the severely ill patients in the last several months have been unvaccinated.
 It’s been both physically and emotionally exhausting.  The politicization of the whole thing is unfortunate.  Lots of crazy on both ends of the spectrum. 

 

[Harry T. Clark]

46 minutes ago, Rivers said:

I’ve been a so-called  frontline worker for the last two years. I have decided that I am now tired of Covid.  But I realize this thing is endemic and it’s not going away.  I’ve seen a lot of suffering and death caused by Covid.  Many who survive become severely debilitated and end up spending months in rehab centers and long-term care facilities.   The vaccine is a Godsend yet many refuse to get it and suffer a severe consequence.   The majority of the severely ill patients in the last several months have been unvaccinated.
 It’s been both physically and emotionally exhausting.  The politicization of the whole thing is unfortunate.  Lots of crazy on both ends of the spectrum. 

 

I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind my asking:

1.  Could you give a little more information as to what you do, if you feel comfortable in doing so?

2. Realizing that this thing is endemic and won't go away and that the vaccinated can still get it, do you agree that protocols need to be established or examined or reexamined that treat this endemic disease prior to having to be admitted to the hospital?  Is the vaccine road with its endless booster regimen the only path or should we be looking for other paths to deal with something that will never go away?

3.  Could you cite to where you determine that the majority of the severely ill patients in the last several months have been unvaccinated?  Is this you observation only?  Is it because "vaccinated" now means fully boostered as well as the initial shots?  

4.  If it is only your observation, did you observe any comorbidities in these severely ill patients that might have been the cause of the severe illness as well?  In essence, I am asking if covid is the sole cause of the severe illness you see or if it is merely a contributing factor in sending the already immunocompromised?   

[Tacenda]

11 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

We got our booster jabs today. No side effects. Did I mention that I hate wearing a mask? My nose runs like the local river.

 

 

Good for you! 

I am weird I guess, because I like the mask. But agree, nose runs, but my nose on one side always runs. Something I inherited from my mom. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

19 hours ago, Calm said:

This is for discussion of all things Covid that are not medical info, such as mandates, mask warring behaviours…

I appreciate the opportunity.  Here's my discussion on the increase in bad things resulting from isolation/lockdowns/reducing human contact/2-year-long disruptions in regular human interactions:

- Sedentary-lifestyle issues like obesity, weight gain, and the like, are up.  Personally, I've missed my gym at work, and I've gained 10 lbs since they sent me home to work remote.
- Mental illnesses and suicide attempts are up, with related things like alcoholism and drug abuse.  When that stuff crashes into staffing shortages and fired unvaccinated medical professionals, it's reached a crisis level, especially among children.  
- Domestic violence rates have spiked.
- Divorce rates initially decreased, due to closed court systems and requests to avoid all but necessary travel.  The more people get out and about again, the higher the rates are seeming to climb. 
- US life expectancy has fallen a full year and a half, and while 74% of that is due to COVID, 26% of it is due to stuff like what is on this list.

They tell me the reason Cancer/CLRD/Heart disease/perinatal conditions are down, is people are missing their doctor appointments and failing to get diagnosed and treated.  Meaning, 2022 might see those right-side-of-the-graph things move to the left-side.

Conclusion: It stinks.  I'm not happy.  

Edited December 19, 2021 by LoudmouthMormon

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I appreciate the opportunity.  Here's my discussion on the increase in bad things resulting from isolation/lockdowns/reducing human contact/2-year-long disruptions in regular human interactions:

- Sedentary-lifestyle issues like obesity, weight gain, and the like, are up.  Personally, I've missed my gym at work, and I've gained 10 lbs since they sent me home to work remote.
- Mental illnesses and suicide attempts are up, with related things like alcoholism and drug abuse.  When that stuff crashes into staffing shortages and fired unvaccinated medical professionals, it's reached a crisis level, especially among children.  
- Domestic violence rates have spiked.
- Divorce rates initially decreased, due to closed court systems and requests to avoid all but necessary travel.  The more people get out and about again, the higher the rates are seeming to climb. 
- US life expectancy has fallen a full year and a half, and while 74% of that is due to COVID, 26% of it is due to stuff like what is on this list.

They tell me the reason Cancer/CLRD/Heart disease/perinatal conditions are down, is people are missing their doctor appointments and failing to get diagnosed and treated.  Meaning, 2022 might see those right-side-of-the-graph things move to the left-side.

Conclusion: It stinks.  I'm not happy.  

What is that chart based on? Suicides were down in 2020 and 2021 numbers aren’t complete yet.

[Scott Lloyd]

How many more COVID threads do we need? 

[Chum]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

How many more COVID threads do we need? 

All of them.

[Scott Lloyd]

17 minutes ago, Chum said:

All of them.

I asked how many more, not how many existing ones. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Chum]

Early research: Only mRNA vaccines are preventing Omicron infections. All vaccines are reducing sickness from Omicron.

Quote

A growing body of preliminary research suggests the Covid-19 vaccines used in most of the world offer almost no defense against infection by the highly contagious Omicron variant.

All vaccines still seem to provide a significant degree of protection against serious illness from Omicron, which is the most crucial goal. But only the Pfizer and Moderna shots, when reinforced by a booster, appear to have initial success at stopping infections, and these vaccines are unavailable to most of the world.

The above article is thin on citation.  The Reuters report below supplies some research background. I presume the below & above are referencing the same research.

Quote

The following .. includes research that warrants further study to corroborate the findings and that has yet to be certified by peer review.

Billy Gardner and Marm Kilpatrick from the University of California, Santa Cruz developed computer models incorporating data on COVID-19 vaccines' efficacy against earlier variants and initial data on the Pfizer (PFE.N)/BioNTech vaccine against Omicron. Their models suggest that early after two doses of an mRNA vaccine from Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna (MRNA.O), efficacy against symptomatic infection from Omicron is only about 30%, down from about 87% versus Delta, they reported on Sunday on medRxiv ahead of peer review. Protection against symptomatic infection is "essentially eliminated" for individuals vaccinated more than four months earlier. Boosters restore protection to about 48%, "which is similar to the protection of individuals with waned immunity against the Delta variant (43%)," Kilpatrick said.

"Importantly, protection against severe disease is much higher" for all categories: recently vaccinated, waned, or boosted. "We estimated that protection against severe disease was 86% for recent mRNA vaccination against Omicron, 67% for waned immunity, and 91% following 3rd dose boosters," Kilpatrick said. "There are still no direct estimates of vaccine effectiveness for severe disease from any country yet, so our estimates cannot be compared to direct estimates yet."

Edited December 19, 2021 by Chum

[Chum]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I asked how many more, not how many existing ones. 

All of them.

[Rivers]

4 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind my asking:

1.  Could you give a little more information as to what you do, if you feel comfortable in doing so?

Respiratory Therapy.  I help take care of people with respiratory illnesses. 

4 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

2. Realizing that this thing is endemic and won't go away and that the vaccinated can still get it, do you agree that protocols need to be established or examined or reexamined that treat this endemic disease prior to having to be admitted to the hospital?  Is the vaccine road with its endless booster regimen the only path or should we be looking for other paths to deal with something that will never go away?

I think both vaccines and therapeutics are important.  Vaccines train our own immune systems to fight disease. Therapeutics fight the disease themselves.  The problem is that fighting this virus with therapeutics has been very difficult.  It’s a work in progress trying to find the most effective drugs.  I don’t see why there needs be a war between therapeutics and vaccines. And I don’t think everyone needs endless boosters.  Boosters are mainly beneficial for the immune compromised and old folks.
 

And while I say this virus is endemic, I still have hope that we’ll reach a point where we’re seeing much lower hospitalizations and deaths.  
 

When it comes to policy I’m more inclined to agree with how Florida and has handled things.  People should be free to make their own medical decisions.  

4 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

3.  Could you cite to where you determine that the majority of the severely ill patients in the last several months have been unvaccinated?  Is this you observation only?  Is it because "vaccinated" now means fully boostered as well as the initial shots?  
 

It’s my own observation.  But I also hear it from many other healthcare workers.  It seems to be a widely acknowledged statistic across the board. I haven’t seen it refuted.  

I think the goal should be to lovingly persuade unvaccinated people to get the jab rather than all this focus on boosters.  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/past-reports/10222021.html

4 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

4.  If it is only your observation, did you observe any comorbidities in these severely ill patients that might have been the cause of the severe illness as well?  In essence, I am asking if covid is the sole cause of the severe illness you see or if it is merely a contributing factor in sending the already immunocompromised?   

Actually what I’m seeing more often is multiple comorbitities in the smaller percentage of  vaccinated.  The older people are and the more comorbitities they have, the more likely they are to have have breakthrough deaths and hospitalizations. Most of the very ill unvaccinated people I’m seeing  seem to be middle-aged. 40’s, 50’s, 60’s. Some in there 30’s and 20’s.  A lot of them are overweight, but not a lot of other comorbitities.  
 

So we need to follow the Word of Wisdom.  Keep our bodies healthy.  Try to look like President Nelson when we’re in our nineties.  Take our vitamins. Talk to our doctors about vaccination. And then we should live our lives while accepting the the reality of dying from something eventually.

 

[Rivers]

41 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

How many more COVID threads do we need? 

As many threads as there are variants.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

How many more COVID threads do we need? 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

How many more COVID threads do we need? 

One medical one and one nonmedical one always open for people to comment on as long as they feel the need.
 

Scott, I invite you to look at the title of the thread and not open it if you aren’t interested. I will always make Covid threads I start obvious that they are about Covid so you can avoid them as desired. 

[mburgess1982]

My brother lives down in St George Utah and I'm always jealous that life is fairly normal down there. Up in Canada we are bringing back restrictions with a vengeance. 
Indoor social gatherings limited to 10 people, no singing or dancing, and definitely no standing at concerts or cinemas. Canada has a very high vaccination rate. I've come to realize that we cannot comply our way out of this. No end in sight
 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by mburgess1982

[Chum]

5 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Personally, I've missed my gym at work, and I've gained 10 lbs since they sent me home to work remote.

I lost 20lbs this year and my son went from 280 to 200. Less mandatory traveling = less stress + more control over our lifestyle.

[Ragerunner]

Covid has brought to the forefront the lose of love so many have developed for their fellow man/woman and how self centered our society has become. Within the church and without.

The weak, frail, elderly, sick and vulnerable are being put aside for politics, miss placed patriotism and self centeredness. At this Christmas season we seem to be moving farther away from loving our neighbors.

A society without this basic love will struggle to stay together or function.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Ragerunner

[Rivers]

Sorry.  I didn’t read the whole opening thread.  I’m not supposed to talk about anything medical.  
 

My ward isn’t too strict.  Masks are optional. 
 

 

[Raingirl]

55 minutes ago, Calm said:

One medical one and one nonmedical one always open for people to comment on as long as they feel the need.
 

Scott, I invite you to look at the title of the thread and not open it if you aren’t interested. I will always make Covid threads I start obvious that they are about Covid so you can avoid them as desired. 

So someone appointed you chief of Covid commentary and arbitrary rule-maker, and because you don’t like Scott, he’s not allowed to ask questions or give an opinion? 

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Sorry.  I didn’t read the whole opening thread.  I’m not supposed to talk about anything medical.  
 

My ward isn’t too strict.  Masks are optional. 
 

 

This one is for anything you want as far as I am concerned…the line is not as clear cut as my description portrays, but if info on the virus itself I would appreciate if at least a link to the post or the info is posted in the Covid III thread.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Raingirl said:

So someone appointed you chief of Covid commentary and arbitrary rule-maker, and because you don’t like Scott, he’s not allowed to ask questions or give an opinion? 

Huh?  Why do you think I don’t like Scott?  Why do you think I am attempting to shut down any questions or opinions?  At most I am asking people to stay on topic in one open Covid thread that I have identified as limited as opening poster and I am trying to provide another thread to meet any wants and desires that are stymied by my restricting the topic in that thread.

I don’t expect everyone to feel the same need to discuss Covid, just like not everyone is interested in all the variations on the Family Proclamation threads or the controversial criminal cases that are one of my other obsessions, which is why even if I do succumb to making the titles a bit cute, I make it explicit they are about Covid so people can ignore them if they so desire.  But the more the merrier and as long as it doesn’t break boards rules, have at it.  

Edited December 19, 2021 by Calm

[Raingirl]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

Huh?  Why do you think I don’t like Scott?  Why do you think I am attempting to shut down any questions or opinions?  At most I am asking people to stay on topic in one open Covid thread and I am trying to provide another thread to meet any wants and desires that are stymied by restricting the topic in that thread.

I don’t expect everyone to feel the same need to discuss Covid, which is why even if I do succumb to making the titles a bit cute, I make it explicit they are about Covid so people can ignore them if they so desire.  But the more the merrier and as long as it doesn’t break boards rules, have at it.  

Seriously?

[Calm]

16 hours ago, Raingirl said:

Seriously?

Yes, I think you misread my intent.  For evidence I like Scott….I have given Scott lots of rep points over the years because I have enjoyed his posts even if there are some topics I vigorously disagree with him on.  There are very few people I have encountered that I dislike actually and far fewer have ever posted on this board and none currently.  Not saying he doesn’t annoy me at times, most posters have to be honest.  And I have even been angry at him on occasion…again not unusual for a poster to tick me off.  But the board would be boring if I was always in my comfort zone.

I am intending to provide a medically focused Covid thread that anyone with actual medical info can post on because I am very interested in the science while I understand that others want to discuss other aspects of the pandemic as well or even more.  But there are those who are tired of the subject, including in my own family, so why would I expect them to read or post in my threads.

And I alway clearly label any thread I open so that people can anticipate the main topic.  Since it makes it so much easier to search for posts I remember and to skip threads I am not interested in, I wish everyone made topics explicit in titles.

Speaking generally, I do get I probably boardnanny too much out of respect for both the mods (I was a mod on another board and hated it…moderating, not the board or the fun behind the scenes chatting with other mods) and because I don’t like seeing outright contention.  And I fully admit to disliking poor science or inaccurate history (when we do know some details).  I am trying to bite my tongue and lecture less, but not always successful.

Scott, if I have ever given you reason to think I don’t like you, my apologies and I hope it won’t happen again.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Calm