The Other Covid Thread

[LoudmouthMormon]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

What is that chart based on? Suicides were down in 2020 and 2021 numbers aren’t complete yet.

Suicide attempts are up.  Completions are down.  Attempts are a sign of failing mental illness.

Sorry - here is my source.  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr015-508.pdf

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Suicide attempts are up.  Completions are down.  Attempts are a sign of failing mental illness.

Sorry - here is my source.  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr015-508.pdf

Half-baked attempts at suicide are often a cry for help and not a genuine suicide attempt. Also suicide is not always a sign of mental illness.

It is not that hard to kill yourself. They put the rope store next door to the rickety stool store for a reason.

 

[MustardSeed]

10 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Suicide attempts are up.  Completions are down.  Attempts are a sign of failing mental illness.

Sorry - here is my source.  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr015-508.pdf

Anecdotally I have more suicidal clients now than ever.  No more completions but certainly more ideation. 
Anecdotally I’m getting excessive number of calls requesting treatment for teenagers and their anxiety.

[Chum]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Anecdotally I have more suicidal clients now than ever.  No more completions but certainly more ideation. 
Anecdotally I’m getting excessive number of calls requesting treatment for teenagers and their anxiety.

In PTSD support, I'm hearing about an increase in intended suicide attempts and completions. Primarily from vets, secondarily from first responders and trauma survivors. Info on the last is harder to come by; it is still common to only think of PTSD as a service-connected injury.

Thru other channels I am hearing about increases in MH support overall. I suspect a worthwhile portion of that is from long-existing issues that are no longer being pushed aside by externals. It's like how house creaks get undeniable when everyone else leaves.

[Chum]

12 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Suicide attempts are up.  Completions are down.  Attempts are a sign of failing mental illness.

Self harm is generally a response to crisis. By my lay observations, it is not typically a manifestation of mental illness but of altered judgment.

[The Nehor]

There is also a known increase in reporting about suicidal ideation and attempts due to expanded access to mental health services. The primary game changer is access to virtual appointments. I am less sure that this is an increase in incidents and may be attributed more to people having easier access to mental and emotional health services. Being able to talk to my psych online has made my life easier even though these appointments are mostly “Pills still working? Okay, have some more.”

[LoudmouthMormon]

1 hour ago, Chum said:

Self harm is generally a response to crisis. By my lay observations, it is not typically a manifestation of mental illness but of altered judgment.

Fair enough.  And instances of it are still up, and it seems reasonable to assume it's due to covid related issues like increased distancing and reduced human contact and whatnot, and it still stinks. 

[pogi]

1 minute ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Fair enough.  And instances of it are still up, and it seems reasonable to assume it's due to covid related issues like increased distancing and reduced human contact and whatnot, and it still stinks. 

As much as you would love to blame everything on the mitigation efforts during the pandemic, I don't think it is reasonable to make that simplistic of an assumption around issues that are likely more complex.  2020 and 2021 have been traumatic for so many different reasons.  While greater isolation may have played a role in some, I guarantee that there are other contributing factors like the general nastiness and discontent on social media.  Politically we are on the verge of another civil war, general societal nastiness has skyrocketed on social media since the election of Mr. T, which hit a climax on Jan 6.  Trust has plummeted.  People don't know who or what to believe. Democracy itself is in question.  There are greater economic pressures which are stressing parents out.  The stress and anxiety of parents bleed into the lives of their children.  Remote work from home has caused parents who are struggling to be home more around their kids, which may contribute to greater conflict and issues on the home front.  Many health care workers and public health workers are stressed out to the max and traumatized.  On top of the stress they have at work and crazy hours, they are public enemy #1 for a huge percentage of Americans and are even being physically assaulted at work by people who don't believe that they have Covid.  They bring that home.  2020/21 is a multifaceted shi* hole for mental health.   On the other hand, many right-wingers are stressed and on edge because they think that democracy has failed and the election was stolen, their liberties are being flushed down the toilet, and we are becoming a totalitarian nation. 

It is a mess.  You are touching on just one small aspect of it.

[Chum]

2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Fair enough.  And instances of it are still up, and it seems reasonable to assume it's due to covid related issues like increased distancing and reduced human contact and whatnot, and it still stinks. 

I'd offer this. In talking with people on the front lines, I've not heard loneliness/isolation as one of the reasons given.  I haven't asked directly tho. I can do that.

[LoudmouthMormon]

6 hours ago, pogi said:

As much as you would love to blame everything on the mitigation efforts during the pandemic, I don't think it is reasonable to make that simplistic of an assumption around issues that are likely more complex.  2020 and 2021 have been traumatic for so many different reasons.  While greater isolation may have played a role in some, I guarantee that there are other contributing factors like the general nastiness and discontent on social media.  Politically we are on the verge of another civil war, general societal nastiness has skyrocketed on social media since the election of Mr. T, which hit a climax on Jan 6.  Trust has plummeted.  People don't know who or what to believe. Democracy itself is in question.  There are greater economic pressures which are stressing parents out.  The stress and anxiety of parents bleed into the lives of their children.  Remote work from home has caused parents who are struggling to be home more around their kids, which may contribute to greater conflict and issues on the home front.  Many health care workers and public health workers are stressed out to the max and traumatized.  On top of the stress they have at work and crazy hours, they are public enemy #1 for a huge percentage of Americans and are even being physically assaulted at work by people who don't believe that they have Covid.  They bring that home.  2020/21 is a multifaceted shi* hole for mental health.   On the other hand, many right-wingers are stressed and on edge because they think that democracy has failed and the election was stolen, their liberties are being flushed down the toilet, and we are becoming a totalitarian nation. 

It is a mess.  You are touching on just one small aspect of it.

Honestly, I pretty much agree, with everything you've said here, with the exception of me wanting to blame everything on mitigation efforts.  

That said, I'd bet ten bucks on the following: If covid hadn't happened, everything you mention might exist at perhaps 10% they're current strength.  It's a thread "for discussion of all things Covid that are not medical info", and that's my opinion.

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Honestly, I pretty much agree, with everything you've said here, with the exception of me wanting to blame everything on mitigation efforts.  

That said, I'd bet ten bucks on the following: If covid hadn't happened, everything you mention might exist at perhaps 10% they're current strength.  It's a thread "for discussion of all things Covid that are not medical info", and that's my opinion.

Nah, stress was already up from some of those factors before Covid hit.

Edited December 21, 2021 by The Nehor

[Harry T. Clark]

14 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Anecdotally I have more suicidal clients now than ever.  No more completions but certainly more ideation. 
Anecdotally I’m getting excessive number of calls requesting treatment for teenagers and their anxiety.

What do you think is the cause?  Is there a solution? 

[Harry T. Clark]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:17 AM, Rivers said:

Respiratory Therapy.  I help take care of people with respiratory illnesses. 

I think both vaccines and therapeutics are important.  Vaccines train our own immune systems to fight disease. Therapeutics fight the disease themselves.  The problem is that fighting this virus with therapeutics has been very difficult.  It’s a work in progress trying to find the most effective drugs.  I don’t see why there needs be a war between therapeutics and vaccines. And I don’t think everyone needs endless boosters.  Boosters are mainly beneficial for the immune compromised and old folks.
 

And while I say this virus is endemic, I still have hope that we’ll reach a point where we’re seeing much lower hospitalizations and deaths.  
 

When it comes to policy I’m more inclined to agree with how Florida and has handled things.  People should be free to make their own medical decisions.  

It’s my own observation.  But I also hear it from many other healthcare workers.  It seems to be a widely acknowledged statistic across the board. I haven’t seen it refuted.  

I think the goal should be to lovingly persuade unvaccinated people to get the jab rather than all this focus on boosters.  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/past-reports/10222021.html

Actually what I’m seeing more often is multiple comorbitities in the smaller percentage of  vaccinated.  The older people are and the more comorbitities they have, the more likely they are to have have breakthrough deaths and hospitalizations. Most of the very ill unvaccinated people I’m seeing  seem to be middle-aged. 40’s, 50’s, 60’s. Some in there 30’s and 20’s.  A lot of them are overweight, but not a lot of other comorbitities.  
 

So we need to follow the Word of Wisdom.  Keep our bodies healthy.  Try to look like President Nelson when we’re in our nineties.  Take our vitamins. Talk to our doctors about vaccination. And then we should live our lives while accepting the the reality of dying from something eventually.

 

I can't agree more that we need to find the most effective treatments regardless of what it is or who makes money off of it.  However, some can't fathom this for some reason.

[smac97]

I hadn't thought of this as a consequence of mask mandates: For Deaf People Like Me, Mask Mandates Impose Never-Ending Isolation

Quote

Trying to be ‘normal’ and have a normal life was always my goal. That has been nearly impossible for nearly two years now.

Alone. Embarrassed. Ashamed. Empty. Sidelined. Ignored. Dismissed. Did I mention alone? These are just a few of the words that describe what a person who is deaf or hearing-impaired feels like on a daily basis.

It’s not a huge population in our country who have hearing problems, but to us it is a huge burden. According to the National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders (NIDCD), approximately 2-3 babies born in America out of every 1,000 are born with a hearing disability. Add those with people who lose hearing due to trauma, illness, and age, and approximately 15 percent, or 37 million Americans, over the age of 18 report at least some trouble hearing.

I was born with hearing loss in both ears. Since the age of six, I have worn hearing aids. Being hearing-impaired has been a huge life disadvantage. For example, as a child I couldn’t hear the whistle while trying to play sports, and continued playing until I see people laughing or trying to get my attention. I’ve missed jokes because I couldn’t understand the words being spoken. When I laugh, my hearing aids squeal because my ears move and the gap in my ear canals causes feedback.

I only hear parts of sentences and I am constantly having to process, in a fraction of a second, the sounds of words said, then to mentally match those sounds to words I have heard before, then to put the whole sentence together in my mind just to be able to communicate.

Trying to be “normal” and have a normal life was always my goal. That has been nearly impossible for nearly two years now. In spring 2020, the first face mask mandate due to Covid-19 went into effect. I knew I was in trouble.

Not only do I not like things in my face because of incidents in my law enforcement career, it also hurts to have the loops behind my ears when wearing my hearing aids. Couple the pain and discomfort and my mild PTSD with the fact that now I cannot understand a single word spoken to me by someone wearing a mask because I can’t read their lips or see their facial expressions.

I hope this fellow's perspective and experience are taken into account (more).

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited December 21, 2021 by smac97

[Rivers]

15 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I can't agree more that we need to find the most effective treatments regardless of what it is or who makes money off of it.  However, some can't fathom this for some reason.

You shouldn’t go grocery shopping.  Grocery stores profit off of people being hungry.  Don’t be a sheep.

[Rivers]

 

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Nah, stress was already up from some of those factors before Covid hit.

Covid just made everything worse.  
 

I actually posted somewhere on this board at the beginning of the pandemic that I thought Covid would unite us in the same way that 9/11 did.

Silly me.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Rivers

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, Rivers said:

 

Covid just made everything worse.  
 

I actually posted somewhere on this board at the beginning of the pandemic that I thought Covid would unite us in the same way that 9/11 did.

Silly me.

I also believed that a common threat would help. I was naive too.

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, Rivers said:

 

Covid just made everything worse.  
 

I actually posted somewhere on this board at the beginning of the pandemic that I thought Covid would unite us in the same way that 9/11 did.

Silly me.

I thought the same thing too. I find the splitting here and elsewhere (we are definitely not the only country with issues, but as far as I can tell we are the ones most politicized over it) mind blowing. 

[Chum]

On 12/20/2021 at 12:59 PM, The Nehor said:

There is also a known increase in reporting about suicidal ideation and attempts due to expanded access to mental health services. The primary game changer is access to virtual appointments. I am less sure that this is an increase in incidents and may be attributed more to people having easier access to mental and emotional health services. Being able to talk to my psych online has made my life easier even though these appointments are mostly “Pills still working? Okay, have some more.”

I know people who found it nearly impossible to attend in person (crowded waiting area, ability to travel) and virtual appts have been their first regular care.

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 hours ago, Chum said:

I know people who found it nearly impossible to attend in person (crowded waiting area, ability to travel) and virtual appts have been their first regular care.

Yep. I fully expect many virtual things to stick around forever. They've been a blessing we should have realised sooner.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Chum said:

I know people who found it nearly impossible to attend in person (crowded waiting area, ability to travel) and virtual appts have been their first regular care.

 

5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yep. I fully expect many virtual things to stick around forever. They've been a blessing we should have realised sooner.

I love the convenience, but taking everything else out of the equation I prefer talking in person to doctors and therapists.  People speak with all their bodies, not just their heads.  It just feels like the therapist would pick up more from body language…though in my experience I doubt if it ever made a difference except for the once I was sprawled over the ENT doctor’s desk trying not to throw up when he walked in.  I think that led to a highly sympathetic bedside manner for that appointment.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

21 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

What do you think is the cause?  Is there a solution? 

IMO- Youth anxiety- my opinion is “how could they not be anxious? They have never known a safe era, a safe school (thanks Columbine), naïveté (thanks internet) or a safe country (thanks 911). They have had helicopter parents that have inadvertently sent the message that kids aren’t capable or resilient.   Parents of teens had the sweet spot of late 60s-80s with no war, we had mr Rogers to tell us we were special and we believed him- and we were the first parents to raise kids with the internet and cell phones and we didn’t have a clue. . “
 

What can we do?  That ship has sailed IMO.  I try to teach parents skills.  Maybe the next generation will figure stuff out. 

[Harry T. Clark]

6 hours ago, Rivers said:

You shouldn’t go grocery shopping.  Grocery stores profit off of people being hungry.  Don’t be a sheep.

So, having a goal to have the best, cost effective treatments is equated with being a sheep?  When you respond, please let all know how safe and effective the vaccines are.  That way, no one will misconstrue what your religion is.

[Chum]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

taking everything else out of the equation I prefer talking in person to doctors and therapists.  People speak with all their bodies, not just their heads.

In person would be my preference but I have less restrictions than many.

[Harry T. Clark]

4 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

IMO- Youth anxiety- my opinion is “how could they not be anxious? They have never known a safe era, a safe school (thanks Columbine), naïveté (thanks internet) or a safe country (thanks 911). They have had helicopter parents that have inadvertently sent the message that kids aren’t capable or resilient.   Parents of teens had the sweet spot of late 60s-80s with no war, we had mr Rogers to tell us we were special and we believed him- and we were the first parents to raise kids with the internet and cell phones and we didn’t have a clue. . “
 

What can we do?  That ship has sailed IMO.  I try to teach parents skills.  Maybe the next generation will figure stuff out. 

Too bad.  I assume you deal in mental health and was hoping that you had some inkling of a solution.  Do you think lockdowns, masks, and the whole covid response worked?  Did it add to the angst the youth feel?  From the outside and seeing how my children have reacted, they suffered missing school and the social benefits of it.  Kids need to have other kids around them. 

I hope we don't go back to lockdown due to omicron.  At least it appears to be pretty benign.