Rivers Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 13 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: This. Freedom through obedience is actually part of our doctrine and canon. But coerced obedience is not real obedience.
BRMC Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 29 minutes ago, Rivers said: I’m with you on this one. I’m tired of watching people suffer because they chose not to get vaccinated. It makes no sense, really. My family caught COVID from a vaccinated teacher. Now they have natural antibodies which based on the Omicron surge in vaccinated people appears to provide better protection. However, you still need to show proof of vaccination to enter places in some cities. Why? -2
Rivers Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, BRMC said: It makes no sense, really. My family caught COVID from a vaccinated teacher. Now they have natural antibodies which based on the Omicron surge in vaccinated people appears to provide better protection. However, you still need to show proof of vaccination to enter places in some cities. Why? I don’t know. I don’t find that logical either. I’m against vaccine mandates and requirements. What bothers me is the misinformation that persuades people not to get vaccinated. We need to be better at communicating correct information so people make the right decisions. Belittling and shaming people just makes them more rebellious and even less willing to get vaccinated. Edited December 24, 2021 by Rivers 3
BRMC Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 Just now, Rivers said: I don’t know. I don’t find that logical either. I’m against vaccine mandates and requirements. What bothers me is the misinformation persuades people not to get vaccinated. We need to be better at communicating correct information so people make the right decisions. Belittling and shaming people just makes them more rebellious and even less willing to get vaccinated. I don't disagree, but the misinformation (and information suppression) comes from both sides. That's what makes people hesitant or untrusting.
BRMC Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 It's funny watching people downvote facts. Nothing like wanting to support your world view, even if it's fictional. 1
Calm Posted December 24, 2021 Author Posted December 24, 2021 5 hours ago, BRMC said: It makes no sense, really. My family caught COVID from a vaccinated teacher. Now they have natural antibodies which based on the Omicron surge in vaccinated people appears to provide better protection. However, you still need to show proof of vaccination to enter places in some cities. Why? Would you be willing to have a proof of sufficient antibodies or infection as an addition if vaccination cards were required?
BRMC Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Calm said: Would you be willing to have a proof of sufficient antibodies or infection as an addition if vaccination cards were required? I don't agree with government mandate of either. However, if that were the case at least the policy would make sense. Based on the information we currently have, natural antibodies are more effective against Omicron than the vaccine. It's illogical to mandate the less effective condition and not accept the more effective. That was my point, not a personal opinion on mandates. Edited December 24, 2021 by BRMC 1
Calm Posted December 24, 2021 Author Posted December 24, 2021 53 minutes ago, BRMC said: don't agree with government mandate of either. However, if that were the case at least the policy would make sense. What about private companies and businesses requiring them?
BRMC Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Calm said: What about private companies and businesses requiring them? I believe private companies and businesses should be able to serve whoever they want, for any reason they want. I believe the market will sort that out. Edited December 24, 2021 by BRMC 1
The Nehor Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 2 hours ago, BRMC said: I don't agree with government mandate of either. However, if that were the case at least the policy would make sense. Based on the information we currently have, natural antibodies are more effective against Omicron than the vaccine. It's illogical to mandate the less effective condition and not accept the more effective. That was my point, not a personal opinion on mandates. It is illogical but it is practical. Your model assumes complete candor on the part of people which is why it is unworkable. Vaccinations can be tracked. It is an event you can say did or did not happen. Anyone can say they have had Covid and are immune and many are lying or were ‘out of sorts’ for a few days and are ‘sure’ it was covid. In any case the vaccine doesn’t supplant immunity and appears to augment it so there is no reason not to get the vaccine even if you have had covid. 4 hours ago, BRMC said: I don't disagree, but the misinformation (and information suppression) comes from both sides. That's what makes people hesitant or untrusting. One side is saying that the vaccines are a government plot to fill you with tracking chips and/or poison you and are making up unsubstantiated threats the vaccine poses while the other has been a little unclear on their messaging so basically they are both equally wrong and equally culpable for vaccine distrust. 2
Stargazer Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Rivers said: I’m with you on this one. I’m tired of watching people suffer because they chose not to get vaccinated. I'm not tired of it. They get what they deserve, or asked for. I'm sad they chose otherwise, though. I know a number of people who died from this before the vaccines became available. I know a good number who got fully vaccinated and are even now suffering from the virus. Including family members of mine. I've become rather fatalistic about the whole thing. I expect to get it, despite being fully vaxxed and boosted. Omicron appears to be very survivable, at least. So maybe if I get it, it won't kill me. If I do get it, and it does kill me, I will make sure to have my wife post the sad news here on the board, so nobody wonders "Whatever happened to Stargazer?" 3
Stargazer Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Rivers said: But coerced obedience is not real obedience. Well, yes, but coerced or not, I do hope the guy who might rob me obeys the law anyway and doesn't do steal from me, after all. 1
Calm Posted December 25, 2021 Author Posted December 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, Stargazer said: Well, yes, but coerced or not, I do hope the guy who might rob me obeys the law anyway and doesn't do steal from me, after all. Certainly increases your freedom if he doesn’t. 1
bsjkki Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 At this point, most of my anti vaxx relatives have had covid. One dead. My vaxxed relatives have not had covid. 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 20 hours ago, Rivers said: But coerced obedience is not real obedience. Then we need to stop speaking of obeying the law -- and rewrite the 12th Article of Faith -- because all law is inherently coercive. 2
Stargazer Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 4 hours ago, bsjkki said: At this point, most of my anti vaxx relatives have had covid. One dead. My vaxxed relatives have not had covid. Did the relative who was anti-vax and died express any regret about refusing the vaccine before he or she died?
Hamba Tuhan Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 On 12/24/2021 at 4:14 PM, Harry T. Clark said: Are these numbers even true, mate? Please give us a way to verify your claims ... Here are the numbers from worldometer. California leads the pack and Florida is number 3. Yeah, I used the exact same website. You're indicating raw numbers. To get rates, you need to consider those numbers as a percentage of each state's total population. If you do that, Florida is 14th for cases whilst California is 43rd, and Florida is 13th for deaths whilst California is 35th. You can click on the columns yourself. 1
mbh26 Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) I just now started not wearing a mask at work. I'm not going to rant about the global economic destruction our political reaction to Covid caused. But I will say that I think Covid did some serious damage to the church and Christianity as a whole. To me it's clear that Satan is ultimately behind the Covid pandemic and pulling the strings from across the veil. His ideology, philosophy, and methods are all over it. It's a global battle that is just another part of the war in Heaven that still hasn't ended. Edited December 26, 2021 by mbh26 grammatical error -1
The Nehor Posted December 26, 2021 Posted December 26, 2021 5 hours ago, mbh26 said: I just now started not wearing a mask at work. I'm not going to rant about the global economic destruction our political reaction to Covid caused. But I will say that I think Covid did some serious damage to the church and Christianity as a whole. To me it's clear that Satan is ultimately behind the Covid pandemic and pulling the strings from across the veil. His ideology, philosophy, and methods are all over it. It's a global battle that is just another part of the war in Heaven that still hasn't ended. 1
Tacenda Posted December 26, 2021 Posted December 26, 2021 I hope this isn't taken as being political, because it's not. I was quite relieved that the former president was honest saying that he got the booster.
Hamba Tuhan Posted December 26, 2021 Posted December 26, 2021 On 12/23/2021 at 11:48 AM, Hamba Tuhan said: So today's figures are in, and we have had a 47 per cent increase over yesterday in daily confirmed cases. At the same time, our hospital figures haven't shifted at all. Let's see what happens over the next week. Quick update: with the exception of yesterday (Christmas Day), each day last week set a record for new cases. At this point, we still have no one in ICU, and our hospitalisation figures have dropped by two-thirds. So far, so good. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 Another update for anyone interested: our daily case rate continues to surge, today reaching a figure 17 times larger than exactly one week ago. We still have no one in ICU, however, though our hospitalisation rate has returned to where it was at the beginning of last week.
The Nehor Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 On 12/25/2021 at 8:39 PM, Tacenda said: I hope this isn't taken as being political, because it's not. I was quite relieved that the former president was honest saying that he got the booster. That is clearly a clone. -A thing people are actually saying
Danzo Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 16 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Another update for anyone interested: our daily case rate continues to surge, today reaching a figure 17 times larger than exactly one week ago. We still have no one in ICU, however, though our hospitalisation rate has returned to where it was at the beginning of last week. three thoughts 1. ICU and deaths are usually a lagging indicator, and lag the positive tests by a couple of weeks. People get sick, then go to the hospital later (Generally) 2. If I recall correctly, you indicated that the vaccine rate in your country is above 98%. Wouldn't that indicate that the vaccine isn't stopping the spread of the virus? 17 times larger would seem to indicate rapid spread in the population, something that I wouldn't expect in a (near) fully vaccinated population. 3. The fact that the ICU beds are not being used would indicate that the vaccines seem to reduce the severity of the disease, which is hopeful. It would be interesting to know the how many people are being admitted to hospitals (non ICU) as another indication of how severe these cases are.
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