The Other Covid Thread

[ksfisher]

34 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

 I am against this vaccine mandate. In my opinion, it is stupid for colleges or anyone to require boosters

My youngest daughter just started college last fall.  There were a couple of vaccinations she was required to get as part of the registration process (I forget for what).

At the end of the current semester she's planning on going on a mission.  As part of that process I expect the church will ask for her immunization records and may require her to get a couple more.

I assume everyone is ok with this process.  Thousands of other young adults went through the same thing as they went off to college and thousands of new missionaries do as well every year.

Why is no one protesting these vaccinations but they are for the disease that my daughter is most likely to be exposed to (COVID)?  Personally I don't get it.

 

[pogi]

17 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Because Omicron is peaking, not a threat to most. Spring is coming Vaccines have some risk. The timing of a booster mandate does not match up. If you are in a high risk group, get it… but most likely they already have and its effectiveness is waning. I expect we will end up with an annual flu like shot timed for seasonal spread. 

Round and round we go. 

I am truly shocked push-back with Covid mandates in college (which some states flex their government muscles and ban these private institutions from mandating - so much for small government staying out of private industry!).   Given the mandates we see in grade-school and many colleges for vaccines like Hep B (transmitted the same as aids) and Hep A (food and water borne - extremely mild and mostly asymptomatic in younger people), or polio (non-existent in most of the world for decades) - vaccines which are also not without risk - Where is the outrage over these?  It makes no sense to single out Covid.

[bsjkki]

2 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Why is no one protesting these vaccinations but they are for the disease that my daughter is most likely to be exposed to (COVID)?  Personally I don't get it.

Long history. Different track record. Different type of vaccine. 
 

At this point in time, getting a booster shot is like getting a flu shot in May. Pointless. When the MRNA vaccines came out, health officials did expect it would stop the spread and provide longer lasting immunity. It is important, as we learn more, to adjust the recommendations to what we know now and what is happening in real life. 
 

Delta was a game changer and so is Omicron. 
 

[rongo]

1 minute ago, bsjkki said:

Because Omicron is peaking, not a threat to most. Spring is coming Vaccines have some risk. The timing of a booster mandate does not match up. If you are in a high risk group, get it… but most likely they already have and its effectiveness is waning. I expect we will end up with an annual flu like shot timed for seasonal spread. 

That's a big part of a lot of the pushback for endless boosting. With other vaccines, vulnerable/immunocompromised people are encouraged to get boosters beyond what others are. With Covid only, the pressure and guilt-tripping is intense for non-vulnerable people to join and get this entire booster regimen indefinitely  . . . to protect the vulnerable who already have their boosters. Including at colleges (Johns Hopkins announced yesterday that they are requiring double-masking of students on campus --- along with all boosters). And there's no end in sight. 

Pfizer said it will have its Omicron booster available . . . in March. 

I doubt that Covid moving forward will be treated like the seasonal flu shots, even if they can get it to one shot annually. There isn't anywhere near the attempts at shaming, firing people, etc. over declining the flu shots. 

Also, I read this week about new rotovirus, RSV, and skin cancer vaccines on the horizon. If we get to a point where the health establishment is trying to guilt and shame people to get hundreds of shots for everything, I think people will start tuning that out. CNN (CNN!) even started suggesting that the CDC is out of touch and losing its aura of expertise. Its most recent guidance is for schools to stop sports, band, orchestra, and choir. CNN notes that this is going to be ignored by schools, even in areas that slavishly followed CDC guidelines. This is because the guidelines are ridiculous, and don't mesh with people's own risk/benefit analysis. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/17/health/cdc-guidance-out-of-touch/index.html 

"Part of the problem, Schaffner and others say, is that CDC scientists are sometimes stuck in a bubble. 'You've got nerds -- literally science nerds -- who are writing these things,' said Dr. Otis Brawley, who worked with the CDC on cancer guidance while he was chief medical officer at the American Cancer Society from 2007 to 2018."

I think feverishly insisting that people boost up every 3-4 months will have the same effect --- especially the longer this whole state of hysteria lasts. 

 

[pogi]

25 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Long history. Different track record. Different type of vaccine. 

The Covid vaccine is proven safe and effective.   There is literally zero risk for many people from some of these other disease and the vaccines DO pose risk - yet they are mandated.   Covid poses a much larger risk and we have a life saving vaccine that works for much longer than 10 weeks. And we are in the middle of one of the largest surges we have ever seen.  Death counts on the rise and hospitals remain overrun in Utah.  You complaint seems blind.  This is not happening with Hep A or B or polio.  No comparison on which vaccine should be top priority for mandates in schools.  Covid all the way on the top of the list. 

25 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

At this point in time, getting a booster shot is like getting a flu shot in May. Pointless.

Actually we are in the dead of winter of Covid right now.  What are you talking about?   There is no flu in may, but go look around for Covid - what do you see? 

25 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

It is important, as we learn more, to adjust the recommendations to what we know now and what is happening in real life. 

Hence the booster recommendation.  

I swear we are living on different planets or something. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by pogi

[Danzo]

14 hours ago, pogi said:

And yet in the very short time it has been around, it has hospitalized and/or killed (nearly 1 million) more people than most of these other diseases that have mandated vaccines combined.

You Keep repeating the over and over, have you ever stopped to question why?

If everyone were dropping dead there would be no need to keep hammering this over and over again.

The reality is that most people don't see death on every street and in every house.  The Internet reality just isn't most people's lived reality. Forcing people to comply to a combat a risk they are not experiencing just makes people upset.

14 hours ago, pogi said:

We know enough that the vaccine is safer than Covid. 

I am not against Vaccines. I believe in them. I have been vaccinated and boosted (didn't prevent me or anyone I know from getting the virus, just probably helped us go through it easier)

14 hours ago, pogi said:

It was controversial even when Trump was in office.  He admitted to downplaying the virus, so your argument doesn't square.

here you go making things political.

For the record I have never voted for trump nor have I supported him.   For the record the whole sky is falling from COVID started with his administration, the lockdowns started with him the whole forcing children home started with him and the abandoning of patients in hospitals started with him. He is not nor has he ever been innocent in any of this.  The vaccine wasn't released until he was on his way out.

I am in favor of vaccines.  The medical establishment has tainted themselves by trying to take over the country with stupid lockdowns, silly masking requirements, forcing children to stay at home, keeping family out of hospitals (in my opinion, one of the big contributors to deaths, putting people in the hospitals without anyone being able to advocate for them, those things are death traps).

If the medical establishment had just kept to medicine, people probably would accept the vaccines without much controversy.  After the Medical establishment basically tried to take over everyone's life is when people started to distrust them.

15 hours ago, pogi said:

The health care community has saved countless lives with their mitigation measures, vaccines, and contact tracing efforts.

They have also negatively affected many lives with closing businesses, forcing people into isolation (pretty much found out an elderly neighbor was suffering because everyone was afraid to visit her, forcing people to be abandoned in the death trap hospitals(Its illegal for truck drivers to put in the hours that resident physicians put in, yet somehow we expect them to cause less accidents).  Adolescents on therapy for who knows how long.  The highest murder rate in our metro area ever recorded, record homelessness, Children missing a year of school. People paid to be idle (when has that ever worked out). 

The medical establishment needs to stick to medicine and stop trying to micromanage everyone's life. They aren't very good at it. 

[T-Shirt]

10 minutes ago, pogi said:

There is no flu in may,

That was her point.

[pogi]

51 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

That was her point.

I know.  Which is why the comparison is really ridiculous.  How could she say that recommending a Covid booster right now (take a look around for Covid) is like recommending a flu shot in may (when there is no flu)?

[rongo]

10 minutes ago, pogi said:

I know.  Which is why the comparison is really ridiculous.  How could she say that recommending a Covid booster right now (take a look around for Covid) is like recommending a flu shot in may (when there is no flu)?

Omicron booster is due out in March (per Pfizer). I think that compares pretty well with a flu shot after flu season. 

[bsjkki]

15 minutes ago, pogi said:

I know.  Which is why the comparison is really ridiculous.  How could she say that recommending a Covid booster right now (take a look around for Covid) is like recommending a flu shot in may (when there is no flu)?

Because Omicron is going to drop like a rock….as it has in other countries. But, if you are at high risk and have not already got a booster, I think you should. I’m against mandates. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

You Keep repeating the over and over, have you ever stopped to question why?

Because it keeps getting downplayed with "this is people's lived experience".  BS!  REAL people are dying.  REAL families are going through this.  Nearly 1 million in 2 years.

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

If everyone were dropping dead there would be no need to keep hammering this over and over again.

Not everyone.  Nearly 1 million is not everyone.  That is nearly 1 in 330 Americans and counting at a rate of over 2,000/day.  Dropping like flies seems appropriate.  Just because you have not personally been affected, doesn't mean it is not happening at a devastatingly high rate.  We should care, even if we don't personally know anyone who has died.

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

Forcing people to comply to a combat a risk they are not experiencing just makes people upset.

What force?  The only mandate I am aware of is for healthcare workers, which was found constitutional by a conservative court.  There are provisions for those who wish not to be vaccinated and continue to work.  No force to vaccinate anywhere.

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

For the record the whole sky is falling from COVID started with his administration, the lockdowns started with him the whole forcing children home started with him and the abandoning of patients in hospitals started with him. He is not nor has he ever been innocent in any of this.  The vaccine wasn't released until he was on his way out.

 Lockdowns were at their peak under Trump.  I am not aware of any federal level lockdowns.  School lockdowns started and happened under Trump too (that is more a state issue than federal anyway).  Abandoning pts at hospitals?  Seious?  Have you seen the numbers?  Nurses are walking out because of burnout due to the unvaccinated - only a tiny fraction of around 1% are leaving due to mandates (that includes janitors, IT staff, human resources, etc.)  Very few actual nurses who care for Covid patients are walking out over mandates.  Less than 1%  Lets not exaggerate this abandoning patients bolagne. 

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

I am in favor of vaccines.  The medical establishment has tainted themselves by trying to take over the country with stupid lockdowns, silly masking requirements, forcing children to stay at home, keeping family out of hospitals (in my opinion, one of the big contributors to deaths, putting people in the hospitals without anyone being able to advocate for them, those things are death traps).

If the medical establishment had just kept to medicine, people probably would accept the vaccines without much controversy.  After the Medical establishment basically tried to take over everyone's life is when people started to distrust them.

They have also negatively affected many lives with closing businesses, forcing people into isolation (pretty much found out an elderly neighbor was suffering because everyone was afraid to visit her, forcing people to be abandoned in the death trap hospitals(Its illegal for truck drivers to put in the hours that resident physicians put in, yet somehow we expect them to cause less accidents).  Adolescents on therapy for who knows how long.  The highest murder rate in our metro area ever recorded, record homelessness, Children missing a year of school. People paid to be idle (when has that ever worked out). 

The medical establishment needs to stick to medicine and stop trying to micromanage everyone's life. They aren't very good at it. 

Public health and mitigation measure IS medicine.  That is their job during a deadly pandemic!  Thank God for them!  Of course people are going to be angry.  It doesn't matter what they decided there would be angry people.  We are better off for them as a nation however. 

[pogi]

27 minutes ago, rongo said:

Omicron booster is due out in March (per Pfizer). I think that compares pretty well with a flu shot after flu season. 

You don't understand the process if you think it is going to be approved and recommended if there is no omicron threat.  You are making way too many assumptions here.  If it is approved, we don't know if it will be recommended for everyone (including those who have already been boosted) or if it will only be recommended for those who have not yet been vaccinated or boosted.  We need to stop criticizing and judging what hasn't even happened. 

[pogi]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

That's a big part of a lot of the pushback for endless boosting. With other vaccines, vulnerable/immunocompromised people are encouraged to get boosters beyond what others are. With Covid only, the pressure and guilt-tripping is intense for non-vulnerable people to join and get this entire booster regimen indefinitely 

What are you talking about?  There are vaccines with endless boosting recommended for non-immunocompromised individuals.   Currently, immunocompromised individuals are recommended to have a 3 dose primary series (not 2 like everyone else) and 1 booster.  How is this different from other vaccines where immunocompromised people are vaccinated more than everyone else? 

2 hours ago, rongo said:

I doubt that Covid moving forward will be treated like the seasonal flu shots, even if they can get it to one shot annually. There isn't anywhere near the attempts at shaming, firing people, etc. over declining the flu shots. 

Here we go to you comparing Covid to flu again.  Of course we are not going to see the same reaction to flu shots!  Shall we compare the risks of each...again...even 2 years later you don't see the difference yet?

2 hours ago, rongo said:

Also, I read this week about new rotovirus, RSV, and skin cancer vaccines on the horizon. If we get to a point where the health establishment is trying to guilt and shame people to get hundreds of shots for everything, I think people will start tuning that out. 

You are so seeing things out of context.  skin cancer is noncommunicable.  There is no pandemic killing nearly 1 in 330 Americans with these other things.  No comparison.  WE ARE IN A PANDEMIC, People are suffering.  Their family members are dying.  What do you expect their reaction to be???

2 hours ago, rongo said:

I think feverishly insisting that people boost up every 3-4 months will have the same effect --- especially the longer this whole state of hysteria lasts. 

Retract these untruths please, unless you can provide a CFR.  Every 3-4 months?  There is so far only 1 booster recommended.  It is not within 3 or 4 months.   Talk about hysteria and overreaction. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by pogi

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

  Every 3-4 months? 

EU told to prepare for fourth COVID vaccine doses, if needed | Reuters

On Friday, Sweden's health agency said people with a compromised immune system should get a fourth shot between three and four months after their third shot.

Copenhagen has said it would do so for the most vulnerable, while the Hungarian government said earlier this month everybody could get it after a consultation with a doctor.

The rollout of fourth doses began in Israel last month, making it the first country to administer a so-called second booster. The campaign is set to continue despite preliminary findings that the fourth dose is not enough to prevent Omicron infections read more .

Booster doses to be brought forward (nsw.gov.au) DOH cuts COVID-19 booster shot interval to three months (philstar.com)

[pogi]

53 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

EU told to prepare for fourth COVID vaccine doses, if needed | Reuters

On Friday, Sweden's health agency said people with a compromised immune system should get a fourth shot between three and four months after their third shot.

Copenhagen has said it would do so for the most vulnerable, while the Hungarian government said earlier this month everybody could get it after a consultation with a doctor.

The rollout of fourth doses began in Israel last month, making it the first country to administer a so-called second booster. The campaign is set to continue despite preliminary findings that the fourth dose is not enough to prevent Omicron infections read more .

Booster doses to be brought forward (nsw.gov.au) DOH cuts COVID-19 booster shot interval to three months (philstar.com)

First, we are not Sweden.  

Second, we are not Israel.

Third, with Sweden this recommendation is limited to immunocompromised people only - and it is a single dose, not never ending boosters every 3-4 months.  In the US, the extra dose for immunocompromised people is not considered a "booster", it is a 3 dose primary series (3rd dose 4 weeks after 2nd) followed by a single booster no sooner than 5 months minimum. 

In Israel there is no recommendation to be boosted every 3-4 months either.

Can you please show me a  recommendation for boosters "every 3-4 months" in the US???

You said:

Quote

 People cannot get boosters every 3-4 months.

This was in complaint of US college mandates.  I don't see how it applies. I don't see how it is even true. 

The vaccine has been around for over a year now, there is only 1 single booster dose recommended (no sooner than 5 months after primary series).  No 4th doses.  No "every 3-4 months".  Please retract. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by pogi

[Danzo]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

There is no pandemic killing nearly 1 in 330 Americans with these other things.

You keep putting this figure out there like some random person is going to drop dead if every time you count out 330 people.  Its not random. 

its like when people say your chances of being attacked by a shark are 1 in five million

actually if you don't go in the ocean, your chances of being attacked by a shark are zero and if you swim in the ocean, your chances are much higher.

Half of the deaths were from people who were at or above the average life expectancy.  3 quarters were people over age sixty five.  People get old and frail and then it is their time to go.  Most of the deaths I have dealt with, the death was expected and in many cases a relief. 

Once again, you are arguing with a statistic that doesn't correspond to most people's lived experience.  

People notice, and you lose credibility. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

 Its not random. 

It is no less real.  

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

its like when people say your chances of being attacked by a shark are 1 in five million

I said nothing about personal chances.  I am trying to show that this actually is the real world lived experience of probably most Americans who are related to or are friends with someone who was been affected by long-Covid, hospitalized, or died from Covid.   It honestly doesn't even matter if it is most peoples lived experience, it is a HUGE number of mostly unnecessary suffering and death.  That should matter to all of us.  We should care for the starving, even if we can't see them. 

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

Half of the deaths were from people who were at or above the average life expectancy.  3 quarters were people over age sixty five.  People get old and frail and then it is their time to go.  Most of the deaths I have dealt with, the death was expected and in many cases a relief. 

This is so disrespectful towards the elderly.  Despite the downplaying of life over 65, there is still value.  People still want them around.  My parents are 75 and young at heart and vibrant.  I expect another decade plus (especially since they are vaccinated)   So nonchalant about death and suffering of the elderly when it is mostly preventable. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

Once again, you are arguing with a statistic that doesn't correspond to most people's lived experience.  

I disagree.  I think it does correspond with most peoples lived experience. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by pogi

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

 

Can you please show me a  recommendation for boosters "every 3-4 months" in the US???

You said:

Quote

 People cannot get boosters every 3-4 months.

Again. I never said they are…yet. I said they can’t do it. They’ve lessened the time for 3rd dose and are now recommending a 4th. I didn’t say our CDC is doing it. You interpret statements to mean what you think they mean. Colleges should not require a booster, IMO.

Edited January 22, 2022 by bsjkki

[Danzo]

31 minutes ago, pogi said:

This is so disrespectful towards the elderly.  Despite the downplaying of life over 65, there is still value.  People still want them around.  My parents are 75 and young at heart and vibrant.  I expect another decade plus (especially since they are vaccinated)   So nonchalant about death and suffering of the elderly when it is mostly preventable. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Let me tell you about one client.

This poor person's father was getting dementia. She took her father in to care for him, the father would beat her, masturbate in front of her children. She called the police, the police couldn't commit him because "Covid".  No room in memory care because "COVID"  The Hospital couldn't take him because he refused treatment.  This poor person had to start a proceeding for conservatorship, was practically falling apart, family suffering, children suffering.  Finally relief came.  He got covid, the hospital would finally take him and he passed away "Of Covid"

His death was a relief for his daughter and her family.  Why does that leave a bad taste in your mouth? 

[Tacenda]

I'm so upset with the legislators in Utah. I just sent an email to Stuart Adams. He worked or owned the company that built a home of ours years ago, so I know him personally. I was nervous sending it but felt the need. How can they dictate to all schools that there will be no masks mandates!?!!

And underhand the mayor of Salt Lake County!!??

The other day I had 9 students absent that I was sub'g in. Now the state of Utah is doing this. Masks worked very well last year. We were able to remain open and it was back to normal. Now it's crazy town. 

I let him have it, and I hope he reads it. 

 

[pogi]

28 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Let me tell you about one client.

This poor person's father was getting dementia. She took her father in to care for him, the father would beat her, masturbate in front of her children. She called the police, the police couldn't commit him because "Covid".  No room in memory care because "COVID"  The Hospital couldn't take him because he refused treatment.  This poor person had to start a proceeding for conservatorship, was practically falling apart, family suffering, children suffering.  Finally relief came.  He got covid, the hospital would finally take him and he passed away "Of Covid"

His death was a relief for his daughter and her family.  Why does that leave a bad taste in your mouth? 

And this makes downplaying the life of those over 65 ok?

What was that you were saying about most people’s lived experience?

Edited January 22, 2022 by pogi

[Tacenda]

39 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Let me tell you about one client.

This poor person's father was getting dementia. She took her father in to care for him, the father would beat her, masturbate in front of her children. She called the police, the police couldn't commit him because "Covid".  No room in memory care because "COVID"  The Hospital couldn't take him because he refused treatment.  This poor person had to start a proceeding for conservatorship, was practically falling apart, family suffering, children suffering.  Finally relief came.  He got covid, the hospital would finally take him and he passed away "Of Covid"

His death was a relief for his daughter and her family.  Why does that leave a bad taste in your mouth? 

Are you kidding me?

[T-Shirt]

15 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm so upset with the legislators in Utah. I just sent an email to Stuart Adams. He worked or owned the company that built a home of ours years ago, so I know him personally. I was nervous sending it but felt the need. How can they dictate to all schools that there will be no masks mandates!?!!

And underhand the mayor of Salt Lake County!!??

The other day I had 9 students absent that I was sub'g in. Now the state of Utah is doing this. Masks worked very well last year. We were able to remain open and it was back to normal. Now it's crazy town. 

I let him have it, and I hope he reads it. 

 

Omicron is a whole different animal.  It seems to avoid masks.  Regardless, if a parent wants to their child to wear a mask, nothing is stopping them.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, T-Shirt said:

Omicron is a whole different animal.  It seems to avoid masks.  Regardless, if a parent wants to their child to wear a mask, nothing is stopping them.

Today the school I was at was passing out N95 masks and they do work. 

[T-Shirt]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Today the school I was at was passing out N95 masks and they do work. 

I'm sure those are helpful.  But if you think, with Omicron, a school kid is going to wear it properly all day and completely avoid the virus, you're kidding yourself.  If the parents aren't concerned, why are you?