“The Elder’s Quorum is not a moving company”

[Fether]

I have never understood this like of thinking. Where does it come from??

Service is service? Are we supposed to offer up service to unless it’s service we determine to be not our responsibility?

Im the service coordinator in my ward and it is a nightmare trying to get people to help with moves. This is doubly problematic because when someone is moving into your area and they need help, what a awful way to say “welcome to the ward” by not coming to help move?

[bluebell]

Sometimes it's because some wards are heavy in moving people in and out and some members take advantage of it.

I've been in wards where someone was moving almost weekly, which can be hard on people when it's the same 8 men who always show up to help.  As a member, saturday is your only day of the week that most people can go out and do stuff with their family.  If every saturday has someone trying to move, that quickly becomes a burden.

Another reason that can cause an EQ to stop helping people move is that they have been burned too many times by people who are moving that treat the EQ like a free moving company and do no consider what is appropriate to ask someone to do.

• Don't be upset when you are moving in or out during the workday and no one can help.  Sometimes it can't be helped but if it can, then plan a time when people will actually be available.
• Don't stand around and watch the EQ move your stuff unless you are physically unable to do anything.
• Don't wait to pack on the day you want people to help you move.
• Don't expect the EQ to handle everything logistically.  If you need trucks or boxes, etc. then that is your job to figure out and get worked out before people start showing up.  Reach out for help if necessary but don't expect people to do it for you.  You are an adult.
• Don't expect the EQ to help pack you up and then drive 30 miles away and unload you and then drive back and help pack up another load.  That is completely unreasonable.
• Load what you can on your own or with family and only expect the EQ to help with the stuff you can't do yourself.  If you have a bunch of teenage and adult kids and you are mobile and healthy, then you probably don't need the EQ to help at all.  
• Don't request that the EQ help you move a piano or something horribly heavy and expensive unless there are mitigating circumstances.  No one owes you a back injury because you want to save $200.

I've been a part of moves, or my husband has, that did every one of the "don'ts" above and it's beyond frustrating.  Have it happen multiple times a month in the same ward and you will lose the EQ all together.

The wards that I've been a part of that function the best with this are those who have had all the bad experiences and have used that for good, by creating a handout that they give out to a family requesting help that outlines exactly what the EQ is happy to help with and also what they will not do unless there are unusual circumstances.  At the top of these kinds of lists is usually the statement that if the EQ shows up and the people aren't packed, then they will leave and return when the packing is complete.  That caveat alone usually sets up a system that keeps EQ from burning out on helping people move.

Some EQ's are really bad at service and need to be chastised (just like some RS's need to be sometimes) but a lot are just tired of being taken advantage of and also struggling with their own stuff.  

[cfi]

I rarely post, but the Elder's Quorum Moving Company is one of my pet peeves...

bluebell posted a much better reply while I was working on mine, so I'll give a hearty "second" to everything she wrote, with only a few additional thoughts.

The Elder's Quorum Moving Company is contrary to the gospel principle of self-reliance. Members should not expect free labor from other members, especially if they can afford to hire that labor themselves. Time is limited, and time with your family is sacred. Asking others to take time away from their families to serve you is a serious thing, and should not be taken lightly.

In the dozens of wards I've lived in across many different states over many years, I have never seen a move request more than a week in advance, with most coming by email only a day or two ahead of time. I have even seen multiple cases of families showing up in a new ward with a loaded moving truck, expecting the EQ to show up that very day to help them move in, without even a courtesy call to the Bishop or EQ President in advance. In almost every case, the families asking for help were perfectly capable of hiring a moving company, but they wanted free labor instead. Nothing like showing up to provide "service" to a family with two BMWs and a luxury mini-van (true story).

It is also common for these requests to result in hurt feelings. When a popular family moves, a dozen or more people show up to help. When a lesser-known family moves, few or zero show up. How does that second family feel?

I hear the exact same stories from friends and family members across the country. These problems seem to the the rule rather than the exception.

Many years ago, my stake president taught the principle of self-reliance, and required members asking for moving services to go through the process of completing a "needs and resources analysis" to demonstrate financial need. This put an immediate end to the Elder's Quorum Moving Company, while still providing assistance to members who truly needed it. Ever since, I have replied to requests for free labor by asking if the analysis had been completed. The usual response is "that's a great question" and no further follow-up
 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

I have never understood this like of thinking. Where does it come from??

Service is service? Are we supposed to offer up service to unless it’s service we determine to be not our responsibility?

Im the service coordinator in my ward and it is a nightmare trying to get people to help with moves. This is doubly problematic because when someone is moving into your area and they need help, what a awful way to say “welcome to the ward” by not coming to help move?

A big family from Idaho moves in and it's all-hands on deck with the arrival time pinpointed by GPS. A couple of disabled elderly women move in and 2 show up so it has to be cancelled  ("rescheduled") and they sleep on the floor for a week or more. An elderly minority couple, baptized converts and fixtures in the ward for 25 years move to a senior living center, zippo response. Hypocrisy is alive and well on the individual level; this is not a "Church thing."

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

I have never understood this like of thinking. Where does it come from??

Service is service? Are we supposed to offer up service to unless it’s service we determine to be not our responsibility?

Im the service coordinator in my ward and it is a nightmare trying to get people to help with moves. This is doubly problematic because when someone is moving into your area and they need help, what a awful way to say “welcome to the ward” by not coming to help move?

No other group expects it.

Everyone else in the world hires people, does it themselves, or whatever.

People need to learn that service is a gift, not something to be demanded, and definitely not a "right"

In short, we need to grow up and learn how to take care of ourselves.

Edited November 13, 2021 by mfbukowski

[Duncan]

I am a EQP for the last 4 years and I have SO many thoughts about this! I don't mind helping people that need help, not free loaders who want to get stuff done for nothing. I will never understand why people decide today that they are moving tomorrow and expect me to get people, it's your move, not mine!!!!!!!!!! As Bluebell said packing and moving are seperate things and packing other people's stuff, YUCK, no thanks!!! My Dad told me about a move he was asked to help in, this was in the 70's and the family was moving to a city out of the province. It took all day to load up their stuff and it was a long day. Come to find out the guy got money from his company to hire a moving company to do the job but he planned on taking that money to go on vacation and so my Dad said, "great, where are we going?" One issue to is liability, what happens if someone gets hurt or breaks stuff? who is responsible? 

[rpn]

Service is helping with things people cannot do for themselves, not enabling their helplessness, misspending, or entitlement mentality.   It is a rare community that doesn't have the professional service of moving companies.   (And even in college towns  ---- maybe especially in them---- there are outfits of young adults who have taken up moving others for less than what other's charge.   Sometimes doing for free what should be paid for undermines the economics of that.)   And the whole point of the church welfare is to help people help themselves, which means the focus should be on helping learn to manage their own move.

Sometimes there can be an important fellowship in the helping someone move service.   And many times parents can take chidren who are at least 9 and certainly teens so they can share the experience.  Many congregations should spend a meeting once in a while about the moving process done/paid for one's self so they don't feel overwhelmed in doing it themselves (maybe throwing in a financial seminar in how to save for emergencies and moving expense?)   And moving someone's family who has never showed up to move anyone else needs to be decided prayerfully.   

 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

I have never understood this like of thinking. Where does it come from??

Service is service? Are we supposed to offer up service to unless it’s service we determine to be not our responsibility?

Im the service coordinator in my ward and it is a nightmare trying to get people to help with moves. This is doubly problematic because when someone is moving into your area and they need help, what a awful way to say “welcome to the ward” by not coming to help move?

But the only way they could even know someone new was moving in is if the new family EXPECTED the help and requested it. I have never heard of a "service coordinator" as a calling 

Imo that is where the problem lies- in the expectation that others should take care of us.

It's great when freely offered, but not when expected as a right

Edited November 13, 2021 by mfbukowski

[rongo]

To add to all that's already been said:

1) "The poor ye shall always have with you." Not just economically poor, but poor in habits and manners. It sounds nice to talk about making people do a needs analysis or fill out a moving checklist before the ward will help, but I think most know that despite these and similar measure, we will be faced with the same behavior. What do we do then? Refuse to help? Leave incompetent people to their own devices? What would Jesus do? Yes, we teach and demonstrate (and even insist on) welfare and self-reliance principles, but the reality is that despite all this we often have to help ungrateful, inconsiderate, incompetent people just the same. 'Twas always thus, and always thus will be. The poor ye shall always have with you.

We've all been in "worst case" scenarios (yucky, unsanitary moves where the packing plan is for the cavalry to stuff everything in Hefty bags). They aren't fun, and only the "same ten people" stay and help with things like that. Like with funerals and funeral dinners, these can be sacred things and the first steps towards progress and exaltation for people with a lot of room for progress and growth. And, it separates the "men from the boys" as far as who are the shining lights in our wards. It usually isn't hard to tell who the new leaders will be. They are the few cheerful, charitable, dienstbereit people who go the extra mile without complaint. They stand out, and most others don't. 

When we moved back into our ward, there was a newlywed couple. The husband is from southern India (2nd generation member), and I told my wife after a few weeks that he would soon be the ward mission leader, EQP, etc. and eventually be in a bishopric. He's now the EQP (I'm his 1st counselor). He serves everyone, greets everyone, and knows everyone, even though they are relatively new.

2) As has been noted, it's okay to tell last minute people who want to be moved midday during the week that it will have to wait until evening or Saturday when men can actually help.

3) Moving companies are extremely expensive. I don't think it's reasonable to expect many families to hire moving help. 

4) We create some of our own problems with motivating people to help. No matter how many times I've told people, they still opt for the easiest short-term route of a message on the ward Facebook page, or a text to a group. When you're talking to everyone, you're talking to no one. It's much more effective, but takes a little more effort on the front end, to directly ask people one-on-one (it's harder to say no). Group messages about inconvenient moves are easily ignored. 

5) With the possible exception of @Duncan, my boys and I have probably done more moves than anyone. The Church/the quorums shouldn't be taken for granted as de facto movers, but we really do have a tremendous blessing of community in the Church that most other people don't. As we've helped non-members move, I've often wondered what other people who don't have family or close friends or a church community do for things like this. 

I think Jesus often was inconvenienced and even "righteously" (without jeopardizing the atonement) annoyed at last minute calls for help. He knows what we feel when we are frustrated or annoyed, but He also did a better job of loving people who can sometimes be hard to love. 

[Fether]

30 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

But the only way they could even know someone new was moving in is if the new family EXPECTED the help and requested it. I have never heard of a "service coordinator" as a calling 

Imo that is where the problem lies- in the expectation that others should take care of us.

It's great when freely offered, but not when expected as a right

Mine is likely a short term calling. He had major flooding in our stake a few months back that destroyed the interior of MANY homes to relieve the strain on the EQ President, the called me to manage the service. We live in a college town so there is a lot of turn over of members, so we see a lot of moving as well.

[Fether]

Growing up, I saw helping people move in as an incredible way to meet the new family coming in. I have definitely helped more people move in than received help in moving.

 

[Meadowchik]

I agree with the quote. Especially when those moving have the means to pay movers. How sad if they allow members who earn very little income to help them for free, taking away time from their families or jobs.

A few years ago someone asked my dad, in his sixties at the time, to help him empty his business to a warehouse. In 100+ degree summer heat. Dad said no. The man ended up paying several young adults to help him and it took them several days to do the job.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Meadowchik

[Fether]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I am a EQP for the last 4 years and I have SO many thoughts about this! I don't mind helping people that need help, not free loaders who want to get stuff done for nothing. I will never understand why people decide today that they are moving tomorrow and expect me to get people, it's your move, not mine!!!!!!!!!! As Bluebell said packing and moving are seperate things and packing other people's stuff, YUCK, no thanks!!! My Dad told me about a move he was asked to help in, this was in the 70's and the family was moving to a city out of the province. It took all day to load up their stuff and it was a long day. Come to find out the guy got money from his company to hire a moving company to do the job but he planned on taking that money to go on vacation and so my Dad said, "great, where are we going?" One issue to is liability, what happens if someone gets hurt or breaks stuff? who is responsible? 

 

56 minutes ago, rpn said:

Service is helping with things people cannot do for themselves, not enabling their helplessness, misspending, or entitlement mentality.   It is a rare community that doesn't have the professional service of moving companies.   (And even in college towns  ---- maybe especially in them---- there are outfits of young adults who have taken up moving others for less than what other's charge.   Sometimes doing for free what should be paid for undermines the economics of that.)   And the whole point of the church welfare is to help people help themselves, which means the focus should be on helping learn to manage their own move.

Sometimes there can be an important fellowship in the helping someone move service.   And many times parents can take chidren who are at least 9 and certainly teens so they can share the experience.  Many congregations should spend a meeting once in a while about the moving process done/paid for one's self so they don't feel overwhelmed in doing it themselves (maybe throwing in a financial seminar in how to save for emergencies and moving expense?)   And moving someone's family who has never showed up to move anyone else needs to be decided prayerfully.   

 

 

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

No other group expects it.

Everyone else in the world hires people, does it themselves, or whatever.

People need to learn that service is a gift, not something to be demanded, and definitely not a "right"

In short, we need to grow up and learn how to take care of ourselves.

I get it. I really do. But I just don’t like the mentality of that being such a popular phrase.

As a rule, I agree packing should be done by the person moving. But as mentioned above, moving is expensive, and it is already stressful enough.  If I find out someone is loving into the area, I want to help them move. This also helps solve the problem so many have with “not knowing anyone”. Helping someone can help develop relationships. Relationships that so many complain about not having. When we focus i. Just the physical labor, it can be frustrating… but if we just focus on what we lose, we are missing out on so much

[Duncan]

4 minutes ago, Fether said:

 

 

I get it. I really do. But I just don’t like the mentality of that being such a popular phrase.

As a rule, I agree packing should be done by the person moving. But as mentioned above, moving is expensive, and it is already stressful enough.  If I find out someone is loving into the area, I want to help them move. This also helps solve the problem so many have with “not knowing anyone”. Helping someone can help develop relationships. Relationships that so many complain about not having. When we focus i. Just the physical labor, it can be frustrating… but if we just focus on what we lose, we are missing out on so much

if they are moving in, typically it's just unloading and that's okay for the most part. If they have to go back and load up more stuff then that takes time. If they are moving from out of province/state it's usually the one move or two but just unloading. It's the "oh yeah, i'm moving this afternoon can you get me brethren and a truck (which you can't always rent last minute at the end of the month when everyone else is moving) those ones are tough to navigate or people that can afford it but won't. We had a lady who moved into our ward that needed help, we sent brethren and she had also hired a moving company and the next day went to Florida for a last minute vacation, clearly this lady has funds to do all that why she needed help to move in. 

[rongo]

5 minutes ago, Duncan said:

if they are moving in, typically it's just unloading and that's okay for the most part. If they have to go back and load up more stuff then that takes time. If they are moving from out of province/state it's usually the one move or two but just unloading. It's the "oh yeah, i'm moving this afternoon can you get me brethren and a truck (which you can't always rent last minute at the end of the month when everyone else is moving) those ones are tough to navigate or people that can afford it but won't. We had a lady who moved into our ward that needed help, we sent brethren and she had also hired a moving company and the next day went to Florida for a last minute vacation, clearly this lady has funds to do all that why she needed help to move in. 

That's annoying. Every time we've moved, we get the truck the night before so we can load it up and be ready to rock and roll in the morning. It often happens where members say, "meet at the house at 9. I have to pick up the rental, and I'll text when I'm on my way." Rental truck offices are a nightmare in the morning, and sometimes the crew is on standby for hours, waiting for a return. Sometimes the return doesn't materialize. 

We've had three teenage sons, and a teenage daughter (now soon to be three adult children) for our moves, so we've always done almost everything ourselves. It can be nice (and quick) to have a few men to help with the piano and large furniture and appliances, but that's literally a few minutes (and we can do it ourselves, if needed). 

Worst I've had to move is a wrought-iron work table. 20 men were struggling; we could have used a crane. Can't have been good for the transmission. There was also a very fancy pool table with slate "sheets" that went in it. We did that one with just me and many young men, but it was slow going and I was afraid we were going to break or scratch it. Steel-toed boots are helpful to rest heavy things on while we get a better grip or rest.  

[Fether]

Ok, I have been thinking over this for a minute and I think I can put into clearer words my frustration and what we should change.

 

Here is what I dislike:
- The platitude "The Elder's Quorum is not a moving company."
- People expecting service to be provided for them
- Member's treating service events as mandatory
- Member's showing up to service events expecting others to be there and take care of things

The core purpose of service is to develope the christlike attribute of Charity. With it, we can include the developement of patience and willingness to sacrifice. When we serve, it ought to be out of love for others. More specifically, empathy / sympathy.

I am more than willing to help other move simply because I experienced moving 4 times in 4 years. Each of those time I have had children and we were not in a situation where we could financially provide movers to help us, and moving was always very stressful. Had we not had a large ward willing to help us move, each of those situations may have been unbearably stressful. Particularily when I moved to Vegas to work for a year, I had no idea who would be there to help. I had no friends or family there, just a single text sent to the local bishop asking for assistanc. When I arrived, there were 20 or so ward members there to help and we got all of our belongings into our home within an hour. 

When I hear that someone needs help moving, those feelings resurface and I cannot allow myself to not join in and help relieve that anxiety they may or may not be feeling.

This is what we should focus on when we seek to give service. So when I hear people make blanket statements of "The Elder's Quorum is not a moving company". it stings, because it is purely a "duty" approach, and not a "charity" approach. (Elder Oaks has an INCREDIBLE talk titled "Why Do We Serve?") It ignores the anxiety that they may be feeling in the situation, and I think if we could all experience what they are feeling, we would all willingly go help.

Now, I do NOT believe every member should be pressured or expected to show up to every service opportunity that is brought up. Rather, we should all strive for empathy / sympathy for the individual asking for help, and then offer what we can or we feel are able to. And if someone complains that there wasn't anyone there to serve them, we ought to show them increased love so that they may know your faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death (D&C 121:43-44). Likewise, when someone asks for service, it is just that, service. If no one shows up, we should be willing to do it all on our own without complaint, but use that experience to have empathy for others when those opportunities arise.

 

Couple more thoughts and questions to consider:

Matthew 25:40 - "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have adone it unto one of the bleast of these my cbrethren, ye have done it unto me." Is sis. Smith, who is extremely needy, doesn't take care of herself, and is partially active  not the "least of these"? How do we apply this service when it comes to people who "abuse" and "take advantage" of the good will of others?

What about when we decide, through our own judgements, that someone is taking advantage of us? Does that give us divine permission to refuse to help? Does the fact that our judgment may be flawed affect the answer at all? (Note: I am not talking about choosing not to serve because you aren't able at that time, I am talking more about actively telling yourself "so-and-so doesn't deserve service because they are taking advantage of us")

Can we expect self proclaimed saints to serve us? Is it problematic if we send out a mass text to the EQ and only the same 3 people that show up continue to show up? Is it divinly superior to not show up to serve someone who you believe is taking advantage of you?

Edited November 13, 2021 by Fether

[poptart]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

A big family from Idaho moves in and it's all-hands on deck with the arrival time pinpointed by GPS. A couple of disabled elderly women move in and 2 show up so it has to be cancelled  ("rescheduled") and they sleep on the floor for a week or more. An elderly minority couple, baptized converts and fixtures in the ward for 25 years move to a senior living center, zippo response. Hypocrisy is alive and well on the individual level; this is not a "Church thing."

Why would a big Idaho family have that much help? 

[poptart]

44 minutes ago, Fether said:

Ok, I have been thinking over this for a minute and I think I can put into clearer words my frustration and what we should change.

 

Here is what I dislike:
- The platitude "The Elder's Quorum is not a moving company."
- People expecting service to be provided for them
- Member's treating service events as mandatory
- Member's showing up to service events expecting others to be there and take care of things

The core purpose of service is to develope the christlike attribute of Charity. With it, we can include the developement of patience and willingness to sacrifice. When we serve, it ought to be out of love for others. More specifically, empathy / sympathy.

I am more than willing to help other move simply because I experienced moving 4 times in 4 years. Each of those time I have had children and we were not in a situation where we could financially provide movers to help us, and moving was always very stressful. Had we not had a large ward willing to help us move, each of those situations may have been unbearably stressful. Particularily when I moved to Vegas to work for a year, I had no idea who would be there to help. I had no friends or family there, just a single text sent to the local bishop asking for assistanc. When I arrived, there were 20 or so ward members there to help and we got all of our belongings into our home within an hour. 

When I hear that someone needs help moving, those feelings resurface and I cannot allow myself to not join in and help relieve that anxiety they may or may not be feeling.

This is what we should focus on when we seek to give service. So when I hear people make blanket statements of "The Elder's Quorum is not a moving company". it stings, because it is purely a "duty" approach, and not a "charity" approach. (Elder Oaks has an INCREDIBLE talk titled "Why Do We Serve?") It ignores the anxiety that they may be feeling in the situation, and I think if we could all experience what they are feeling, we would all willingly go help.

Now, I do NOT believe every member should be pressured or expected to show up to every service opportunity that is brought up. Rather, we should all strive for empathy / sympathy for the individual asking for help, and then offer what we can or we feel are able to. And if someone complains that there wasn't anyone there to serve them, we ought to show them increased love so that they may know your faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death (D&C 121:43-44). Likewise, when someone asks for service, it is just that, service. If no one shows up, we should be willing to do it all on our own without complaint, but use that experience to have empathy for others when those opportunities arise.

 

Couple more thoughts and questions to consider:

Matthew 25:40 - "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have adone it unto one of the bleast of these my cbrethren, ye have done it unto me." Is sis. Smith, who is extremely needy, doesn't take care of herself, and is partially active  not the "least of these"? How do we apply this service when it comes to people who "abuse" and "take advantage" of the good will of others?

What about when we decide, through our own judgements, that someone is taking advantage of us? Does that give us divine permission to refuse to help? Does the fact that our judgment may be flawed affect the answer at all? (Note: I am not talking about choosing not to serve because you aren't able at that time, I am talking more about actively telling yourself "so-and-so doesn't deserve service because they are taking advantage of us")

Can we expect self proclaimed saints to serve us? Is it problematic if we send out a mass text to the EQ and only the same 3 people that show up continue to show up? Is it divinly superior to not show up to serve someone who you believe is taking advantage of you?

I take it many do exploit how charitable the LDS faithful are? 

I worked at di for a bit, at least once a week id be asked by a member to discount something.   That saddens me, so few orgs are left here that are as charitable and what happens, they get fleeced by their own. 

[ksfisher]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

I have never understood this like of thinking. Where does it come from??

Service is service? Are we supposed to offer up service to unless it’s service we determine to be not our responsibility?

Im the service coordinator in my ward and it is a nightmare trying to get people to help with moves. This is doubly problematic because when someone is moving into your area and they need help, what a awful way to say “welcome to the ward” by not coming to help move?

I don’t mind helping people move, but (as others have said) I’m not in charge of moving that person.  

I’ll find the people

You pack and arrange transportation

It also bugs me when people who don’t attend church and don’t render any service themselves expect me to move them.  That’s just someone looking for free labor.

[Chum]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

With the possible exception of Duncan, my boys and I have probably done more moves than anyone.

It's conceivable we have you beat. For 2016-2018, our ward had a ton of turnover; we did up to 5 moves/mo. Over 30 years though, we didn't miss many. On occasion, were were the only ones who showed.

One reason we did so many is the median age in the ward was death so us 6 guys made up a chunk of the <70 workforce.  A few times the reason was we received assistance and I felt our hand ought to be up for every possible service opportunity.

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Moving companies are extremely expensive. I don't think it's reasonable to expect many families to hire moving help. 

This is kind of the thing - especially for wards (ours) that are dominated by lower income families. Of all the moves we did, I can recall two where I know the couple had the funds to hire someone.  One move was an older couple who'd dedicated decades of time & resources. I feel our help there was more than appropriate. I think the other couple were cheapskates. They were the only ones I recall taking advantage.

2 hours ago, cfi said:

In the dozens of wards I've lived in across many different states over many years, I have never seen a move request more than a week in advance, with most coming by email only a day or two ahead of time. 

A long time back: I coordinated our family move w/ the EQP, months in advance. For a month, I reminded him weekly and helped arrange some of the brethren. The day of the move we're standing out front of our old house, waiting. No one shows. Another family had drove in unannounced with a full moving truck and the EQP assigned all the brethren to that family. Afterward he sent everyone home because that's how he rolls (we called, he eventually came back). This wasn't overly unusual and we learned to not ask for service help.

That said, most moves were planned in advance - typically weeks. For move-ins, I suspect it took that long to find someone to answer a phone. And there were moves during the week (not a lot). They were usually due to unavoidable constraints.

2 hours ago, rongo said:

We've all been in "worst case" scenarios - yucky, unsanitary moves

Oh yeah. There were a few. On one there were chickens following us around eating the roaches as they dropped.

2 hours ago, rongo said:

And, it separates the "men from the boys" ... It usually isn't hard to tell who the new leaders will be.

Regular movers called as leadership? Not never but mostly never.

1 hour ago, rongo said:

We've had three teenage sons, and a teenage daughter (now soon to be three adult children) for our moves, so we've always done almost everything ourselves.

My youngest are 19, so same. Incorporating church members would just add complexity now. When were younger and broke, we borrowed a friend's box truck after work hours and got moved in a few weeks.

All that said, those Church moves did us some good. All my sons started when they were too young to help but eventually pitched in and could be counted on without complaint. I'm very happy with their work ethic now.

[katherine the great]

I can see why EQ Presidents could get tired of this because a lot of people do take advantage. But sometimes there is a silver lining. I was recently sitting in the dental chair having an unpleasant procedure done when my dentist started talking about the day his family moved into our ward. They were a young family and he was just out of dental school and was so stressed out he said he was almost in tears. Then he profusely thanked me for being there when they arrived with a meal and some help. I barely even remembered it but it was very sweet to hear that it was so deeply appreciated.

[Chum]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

Why would a big Idaho family have that much help? 

Big active families are more attractive.

[Chum]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

I take it many do exploit how charitable the LDS faithful are? 

For physical service, that wasn't my experience. For welfare assistance it's different but there are many poor and homeless in my last ward.

[JAHS]

[Calm]

41 minutes ago, Chum said:

I'm very happy with their work ethic now.

My son was rotten at chores at home. He didn’t fight, he would cheerfully agree and then just got distracted (still happens). And he never wanted much, was patient to wait (he would pick up computer games from all his friends for $5 after they were bored with them; when he was 6 years old, he held on to his money at a Renaissance Fair even with the mom encouraging him to to enjoy the treats and rides until he found a wooden sword just his size that took it all, so if he hadn’t waited big disappointment…he still has the sword 35 years later), so even ridiculous bribes never worked. Only standing over him or working side by side worked and I lacked the patience and energy to do that…and his dad is the fun parent (which needs to be okay because that is why I married him because my parents were work first, play later and there was always work, so never play…at least together…and I still haven’t figured out how to really play and have it satisfying or without guilt).
 

 I would have been very concerned about my son except I saw how well he worked for others. His supervisors at school, work, and church all praised him.  I have no clue what made the difference, don’t think it was a need to be recognized by others, more likely it was just he could stay focused on the work when he wasn’t surrounded by his toys.  Or maybe he just didn’t recognize the need at home because his dad was okay with clutter. 
 

And as an adult it is much the same as he married someone who is more about enjoying life as a family and helping others than having a orderly house. He has a great job and is very active in church and helping others, so if his office is a mess I just tell myself his kids will care more about the good times than a great house. Though I did love the peaceful, orderly home my parents gave us and I provided the same for my kids, just didn’t teach them how to get the same for themselves, bit sad about that.  

Edited November 13, 2021 by Calm