“The Elder’s Quorum is not a moving company”

[Chum]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

Don't stand around and watch the EQ move your stuff unless you are physically unable to do anything.

It really helps to have someone stand inside and direct. Some feel guilty doing that instead of hustling furniture.

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

Don't wait to pack on the day you want people to help you move.

Don't expect the EQ to handle everything logistically.  If you need trucks or boxes, etc. then that is your job to figure out and get worked out before people start showing up.  Reach out for help if necessary but don't expect people to do it for you.  You are an adult.

Decades ago we learned to have someone make sure they're packed. The lesson stuck. Otherwise, it's hell. I'd take a filthy move first.

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

Don't expect the EQ to help pack you up and then drive 30 miles away and unload you and then drive back and help pack up another load. 

This is us, 4 mos ago. Five bedrooms, me+sons did it in a day.*

It's a hard scenario, even if it's a couple of bedrooms and 5 miles. Simple plans seem insufficient. For a smaller move, the brethren could do it same day with two smaller teams. For a large move, I'd want either 2 large teams (and probably two days) or the truck to be at the old house on Wed and slowly fill for 3 days, then a large team to unload on Sat.
* "I don't recommend it" -- Gordon B Hinckey

Edited November 13, 2021 by Chum

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

Sometimes it's because some wards are heavy in moving people in and out and some members take advantage of it.

I've been in wards where someone was moving almost weekly, which can be hard on people when it's the same 8 men who always show up to help.  As a member, saturday is your only day of the week that most people can go out and do stuff with their family.  If every saturday has someone trying to move, that quickly becomes a burden.

Another reason that can cause an EQ to stop helping people move is that they have been burned too many times by people who are moving that treat the EQ like a free moving company and do no consider what is appropriate to ask someone to do.

• Don't be upset when you are moving in or out during the workday and no one can help.  Sometimes it can't be helped but if it can, then plan a time when people will actually be available.
• Don't stand around and watch the EQ move your stuff unless you are physically unable to do anything.
• Don't wait to pack on the day you want people to help you move.
• Don't expect the EQ to handle everything logistically.  If you need trucks or boxes, etc. then that is your job to figure out and get worked out before people start showing up.  Reach out for help if necessary but don't expect people to do it for you.  You are an adult.
• Don't expect the EQ to help pack you up and then drive 30 miles away and unload you and then drive back and help pack up another load.  That is completely unreasonable.
• Load what you can on your own or with family and only expect the EQ to help with the stuff you can't do yourself.  If you have a bunch of teenage and adult kids and you are mobile and healthy, then you probably don't need the EQ to help at all.  
• Don't request that the EQ help you move a piano or something horribly heavy and expensive unless there are mitigating circumstances.  No one owes you a back injury because you want to save $200.

I've been a part of moves, or my husband has, that did every one of the "don'ts" above and it's beyond frustrating.  Have it happen multiple times a month in the same ward and you will lose the EQ all together.

The wards that I've been a part of that function the best with this are those who have had all the bad experiences and have used that for good, by creating a handout that they give out to a family requesting help that outlines exactly what the EQ is happy to help with and also what they will not do unless there are unusual circumstances.  At the top of these kinds of lists is usually the statement that if the EQ shows up and the people aren't packed, then they will leave and return when the packing is complete.  That caveat alone usually sets up a system that keeps EQ from burning out on helping people move.

Some EQ's are really bad at service and need to be chastised (just like some RS's need to be sometimes) but a lot are just tired of being taken advantage of and also struggling with their own stuff.  

The worst is moving hoarders.

[Chum]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

 

• Don't be upset when you are moving in or out during the workday and no one can help.  Sometimes it can't be helped but if it can, then plan a time when people will actually be available.
• Don't stand around and watch the EQ move your stuff unless you are physically unable to do anything.
• Don't wait to pack on the day you want people to help you move.
• Don't expect the EQ to handle everything logistically.  If you need trucks or boxes, etc. then that is your job to figure out and get worked out before people start showing up.  Reach out for help if necessary but don't expect people to do it for you.  You are an adult.
• Don't expect the EQ to help pack you up and then drive 30 miles away and unload you and then drive back and help pack up another load.  That is completely unreasonable.
• Load what you can on your own or with family and only expect the EQ to help with the stuff you can't do yourself.  If you have a bunch of teenage and adult kids and you are mobile and healthy, then you probably don't need the EQ to help at all.  
• Don't request that the EQ help you move a piano or something horribly heavy and expensive unless there are mitigating circumstances.  No one owes you a back injury because you want to save $200.

This might belong in the Handbook more than the stuff that's already there.

[Chum]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The worst is moving hoarders.

Gospel-level truth.

[Chum]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

Though I did love the peaceful, orderly home my parents gave us and I provided the same for my kids, just didn’t teach them how to get the same for themselves, bit sad about that.  

You can't teach everything. My mother assigned regular cleaning for years and I more or less did it but it still took decades for me to manage my own bath and bedroom. 

Sons and I had a Cleaning lunch today. We're doing better than our last house but not there yet.

[Islander]

5 hours ago, Fether said:

I have never understood this like of thinking. Where does it come from??

Service is service? Are we supposed to offer up service to unless it’s service we determine to be not our responsibility?

Im the service coordinator in my ward and it is a nightmare trying to get people to help with moves. This is doubly problematic because when someone is moving into your area and they need help, what a awful way to say “welcome to the ward” by not coming to help move?

I know that usually criticism stings and, in  my experience, church members are not used to or appreciate any feedback that reflects poorly on them. But, the facts are the facts. The apathy and disregard for others (moving in) church members is just a reflection of the realities of people's spiritual lives. In the 3 wards I have lived once we left CA the story is the same. The membership is insular, withdrawn, isolated and mostly invisible. People function as if ONLY their families are important and relevant. Sunday is mostly a cold, prescribed protocol that has become mostly irrelevant now that we were out of church for over a year. People function out of imposed duty, (self or external) rather than true love and fellowship.

The reason why it is hard to gather a group to help an incoming family, mind you, a TRUE family, members of the family of God and those that deserve our love attention, devotion and total sacrifice, is because they DON'T CARE. Any other justification and reasoning are just that; mundane excuses. They are more concerned wih themselves that with the wellbeing of others.

They forget that if they have no love....true love, they are NOTHING and everything else they may or may not do is worthless. What it clearly evidence is that regardless of "membership" the Spirit is NOT in them they are just like sounding brass in the wind.

"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen." Mor. 7:48

My 2 cents.

[Chum]

27 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The worst is moving hoarders.

My ex was a hoarder and I had decades of work related computer scrap. We began planning the clean-out in winter. We spent two spring months sorting the 80% to toss from the 20% to pack. Every few days I set out stacks of serviceable computer components for my mailman to take home (sorry mrs mailman). After 10 loads to the dump, we were ready for our July moving day.

We lived there and spent months getting ready. It'd be impossible for Church members to step into that, short of a roll-off dumpster.

[mfbukowski]

My daughter had a good friend whom she promised to help move.  They did everything together and both had been through similar trials recently and so the bond was tight.

The friend also had other people who said they would show up.  Most of the problem was packing and loading the truck with an entire housefull of furniture etc, from the inherited house she had just obtained to her new home across country, and get out of the inherited house which was now sold, so ultimately that the new owners could get in.

So timing with the moving company was important, the truck(s) were appearing on a certain day and hitting the time slots was essential.

No one who committed showed up except my daughter, since she was a close friend.

They worked all day and into the evening.   Around 9 pm, my daughter was bushed and came home, promising to be back the next day.   My daughter received a phone call around midnight while the friend was trying to move a large object herself and felt that it was an "emergency".

My daughter went and stayed until 3 am loading the object and other stuff.   Finally exhaustion made the inevitable decision.

The friend tried to get folks to help out on day 2, to no avail.

My daughter went back.

The friend had hired her handyman to help out so now there were 3.

Finally on day two around midnight, my daughter had had it and apoligized, but felt she could do no more.

The friend blew up and called my daughter "a selfish narcissist who only cared about herself and no one else".

They are not speaking to each other and are no longer friends.

People.

Can't live with 'em or without 'em.

[Chum]

What a mess. Friend needs a perspective transplant.

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

People.  Can't live with 'em or without 'em.

Agreed. People are the worst.

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

The worst is moving hoarders.

Oh yes! I visit-taught a hoarder once. She was an absolutely delightful (and hilarious) lady but definitely a hoarder. She had a very tragic backstory. 😟

[Fether]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

It also bugs me when people who don’t attend church and don’t render any service themselves expect me to move them.  That’s just someone looking for free labor.

Key word “expects”. I am all for helping my neighbor move. It can be annoying if there is an expectation

[The Nehor]

I showed up to a move once where the family had packed nothing. The furniture was covered in stuff and unable to be moved. They had no boxes. They were asking those who showed up if they had a truck. I left.

[Scott Lloyd]

“The elders quorum is not a moving company.”  
 

Good thing, too. It would be an extremely unprofitable one. 

[Ginger Snaps]

7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I have never heard of a "service coordinator" as a calling 

 

It used to be called Compassionate Service Leader and it was under the purview of the Relief Society. Fairly recent changes have occurred so that both EQ and RS can have a service coordinator (and yes, that is the title; see handbook 8.3.5).  They’re supposed to work together to take care of the service needs of the ward (22.6.2). 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Ginger Snaps
Spelling

[poptart]

4 hours ago, Chum said:

Big active families are more attractive.

That's what I figured, thought I'd ask before jumping to conclusions, thanks.

4 hours ago, Chum said:

For physical service, that wasn't my experience. For welfare assistance it's different but there are many poor and homeless in my last ward.

Same in the area I was in at the time, difference is it was a blue state with generous help for the poor, at least compared to the south.  Problem was and still is busing and refusal to really deal with the problems.  DI and the wards did a lot of good for the poor, thing is that also attracted a lot of exploitative people who just fleeced people.  I feel bad for folks in Utah and Idaho, all things considered they're great people with great communities, the things that transplants look to exploit once enough of them move to an area.  Dunno, I think society owes it to the least of these to do something but the American people make things a lot harder than they have to be.  I guess if Jesus can be a bit irritated at people following him after the loaves and fishes miracle those of us here who want to see change should expect headache.  

[poptart]

9 hours ago, bluebell said:

Sometimes it's because some wards are heavy in moving people in and out and some members take advantage of it.

I've been in wards where someone was moving almost weekly, which can be hard on people when it's the same 8 men who always show up to help.  As a member, saturday is your only day of the week that most people can go out and do stuff with their family.  If every saturday has someone trying to move, that quickly becomes a burden.

Another reason that can cause an EQ to stop helping people move is that they have been burned too many times by people who are moving that treat the EQ like a free moving company and do no consider what is appropriate to ask someone to do.

• Don't be upset when you are moving in or out during the workday and no one can help.  Sometimes it can't be helped but if it can, then plan a time when people will actually be available.
• Don't stand around and watch the EQ move your stuff unless you are physically unable to do anything.
• Don't wait to pack on the day you want people to help you move.
• Don't expect the EQ to handle everything logistically.  If you need trucks or boxes, etc. then that is your job to figure out and get worked out before people start showing up.  Reach out for help if necessary but don't expect people to do it for you.  You are an adult.
• Don't expect the EQ to help pack you up and then drive 30 miles away and unload you and then drive back and help pack up another load.  That is completely unreasonable.
• Load what you can on your own or with family and only expect the EQ to help with the stuff you can't do yourself.  If you have a bunch of teenage and adult kids and you are mobile and healthy, then you probably don't need the EQ to help at all.  
• Don't request that the EQ help you move a piano or something horribly heavy and expensive unless there are mitigating circumstances.  No one owes you a back injury because you want to save $200.

I've been a part of moves, or my husband has, that did every one of the "don'ts" above and it's beyond frustrating.  Have it happen multiple times a month in the same ward and you will lose the EQ all together.

The wards that I've been a part of that function the best with this are those who have had all the bad experiences and have used that for good, by creating a handout that they give out to a family requesting help that outlines exactly what the EQ is happy to help with and also what they will not do unless there are unusual circumstances.  At the top of these kinds of lists is usually the statement that if the EQ shows up and the people aren't packed, then they will leave and return when the packing is complete.  That caveat alone usually sets up a system that keeps EQ from burning out on helping people move.

Some EQ's are really bad at service and need to be chastised (just like some RS's need to be sometimes) but a lot are just tired of being taken advantage of and also struggling with their own stuff.  

Stuff like this is why single people can be reluctant to join orgs, religious or not.  Makes me sick how people just exploit others good nature, at the point now where in general no one cares.  

This is a big reason why a lot of protestant churches tanked, this same attitude.  A Lutheran buddy of mine was a volunteer Sunday school teacher in the 90s/2000s, same thing.  You'd have people who were never Lutheran their whole lives let alone Church going.  What do they do?  Join up and exploit away.   That was the general attitude in his old parish too, ye olde "we gotta contribute" which ended up being a few doing everything.  As a single male that's not exactly an attractive option, churches aren't always welcoming.  I mean, what do you want?  Not all of us get to grow up in comfy WASP suburbs so we're not going to assimilate into that culture so easily.  Seeing people just get exploited like that really leaves a bad taste in your mouth, especially when you see good friends who really do want to do the Christian thing just get used.

Is there anything concrete you guys do to address this?  

[Calm]

3 hours ago, katherine the great said:

Oh yes! I visit-taught a hoarder once. She was an absolutely delightful (and hilarious) lady but definitely a hoarder. She had a very tragic backstory. 😟

I can’t figure out my husband’s type of hoarding, buys gadgets, seeds, tools, knickknacks…many are still in shopping bags in a pile somewhere…maybe having to share stuff as a kid (large family), it drives me mad (in both senses of the word) because nothing gets put away.  And if I put stuff away and he needs it, he just goes buys more rather than asking me, so I have drawers full of masking tape, so many duplicate tools..ach.  Probably the biggest stumbling block of our marriage (though him taking off or changing his schedule without telling anyone has resulted in some major blowups…also the day he butchered my lavender bushes) and given my health, I have just joined the madness now.  Facing up to it and working on purging, but it takes forever because I can’t be vertical for more than 20 minutes at a time and if I bend down or carry something, the nausea hits in 5.  And I can’t drive, so the van is stuffed and the front room is now filling up.  Me, I am an organized hoarder, but I don’t buy just to buy…except toys to cheer up my daughter.  And everything was in containers and marked and in storage.  For when I need it again.  But we have money now and I can’t control the clutter anymore, so it is time to simplify.  If I end up needing something, will buy it.  He has time off starting January and I am not going to worry about him not having enough “me time” for however long it takes up to 4 months.

Wish I knew what DI actually wants, what I think people will find useful may not be realistic.  My husband put in the to donate box one plastic measuring cup, all we have left of a set.  We were using it to scoop the dog’s food.  He is certain someone will find it useful.  Otoh, I made sure I had all 31 little boxes for a barely used pill dispenser (one of my fruitless efforts to organize my daughter) and carefully bagged and taped it together before boxing it.  It has been decades since I went inside DI, maybe if I get a good day I will check it out.

Rambling again…

Edited November 14, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Most of the problem was packing and loading the truck with an entire housefull of furniture etc, from the inherited house she had just obtained

After losing control of my life after Mom and Dad used our house as temporary storage when they moved into assisted living only for it to become permanent storage when Dad unexpectedly died plus trying to be Mom’s secretary from my bed (never did figure out how to file bills and documents from another room, bags of paper are now taxing the shredder, tempted just to burn the rest), I am committed to purge, purge, purge so I don’t leave such a burden on my kids at the very time they need less stress.  Have even signed up on a FB Declutter group to stay inspired.  And I hate FB.

And family history will be headed to my brother’s house where he can digitize all the photos and his son in law can take care of the journals and such (he is a professional).  I put in my 30 years as keeper of the archives.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Calm

[Tacenda]

35 minutes ago, Calm said:

I can’t figure out my husband’s type of hoarding, buys gadgets, seeds, tools, knickknacks…many are still in shopping bags in a pile somewhere…maybe having to share stuff as a kid (large family), it drives me mad (in both senses of the word) because nothing gets put away.  And if I put stuff away and he needs it, he just goes buys more rather than asking me, so I have drawers full of masking tape, so many duplicate tools..ach.  Probably the biggest stumbling block of our marriage (though him taking off or changing his schedule without telling anyone has resulted in some major blowups…also the day he butchered my lavender bushes) and given my health, I have just joined the madness now.  Facing up to it and working on purging, but it takes forever because I can’t be vertical for more than 20 minutes at a time and if I bend down or carry something, the nausea hits in 5.  And I can’t drive, so the van is stuffed and the front room is now filling up.  Me, I am an organized hoarder, but I don’t buy just to buy…except toys to cheer up my daughter.  And everything was in containers and marked and in storage.  For when I need it again.  But we have money now and I can’t control the clutter anymore, so it is time to simplify.  If I end up needing something, will buy it.  He has time off starting January and I am not going to worry about him not having enough “me time” for however long it takes up to 4 months.

Wish I knew what DI actually wants, what I think people will find useful may not be realistic.  My husband put in the to donate box one plastic measuring cup, all we have left of a set.  We were using it to scoop the dog’s food.  He is certain someone will find it useful.  Otoh, I made sure I had all 31 little boxes for a barely used pill dispenser (one of my fruitless efforts to organize my daughter) and carefully bagged and taped it together before boxing it.  It has been decades since I went inside DI, maybe if I get a good day I will check it out.

Rambling again…

Calm, I don't think you or your husband are true hoarders, that's what I was talking about. The kind that you find dead animals under things, type hoarder. 

There was a family in my former ward that was helped over and over, where the ward even had to go in and do some remodeling etc, only to have it destroyed later. Several years later this family decided to move and as we were clearing out the cupboards, we found a dead mouse in a bowl. In their garage they had a huge mound of clothing, not in sacks or boxes, that nearly reached the ceiling. I kid you not, it was humongous.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Tacenda

[mfbukowski]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

After losing control of my life after Mom and Dad used our house as temporary storage when they moved into assisted living only for it to become permanent storage when Dad unexpectedly died plus trying to be Mom’s secretary from my bed (never did figure out how to file bills and documents from another room, bags of paper are now taxing the shredder, tempted just to burn the rest), I am committed to purge, purge, purge so I don’t leave such a burden on my kids at the very time they need less stress.  Have even signed up on a FB Declutter group to stay inspired.  And I hate FB.

And family history will be headed to my brother’s house where he can digitize all the photos and his son in law can take care of the journals and such (he is a professional).  I put in my 30 years as keeper of the archives.

Oy Vey!

I get it.  Life is.... interesting. 

 

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Oy Vey!

I get it.  Life is.... interesting. 

 

Unpredictable.  I struggle with that.

I am using the board as therapy today.  Hope it isn’t too annoying to everyone.   

Edited November 14, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

22 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Calm, I don't think you or your husband are true hoarders,

I know I am not if I am being precise, it is just such a contrast from what life was like once I am inflating it in my mind.  Hyper organized, never lost toys, or anything but socks.  Went into shock when I found out my favorite puzzle is missing a piece.  I got to shed this perfectionist side of me somehow or I will be gnashing my teeth for the rest of my life.  Not that I was ever the type who vacuumed every day, quite surprised when I found out people did that when I was newly married.  Someone on the FB group asked “how often do you wash your walls” the other day.  Practically busted a gut on that one.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Calm

[Tacenda]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

I know I am not if I am being precise, it is just such a contrast from what life was like once I am inflating it in my mind.  Hyper organized, never lost toys, or anything but socks.  Went into shock when I found out my favorite puzzle is missing a piece.  I got to shed this perfectionist side of me somehow or I will be gnashing my teeth for the rest of my life.  Not that I was ever the type who vacuumed every day, quite surprised when I found out people did that when I was newly married.  Someone on the FB group asked “how often do you wash your walls” the other day.  Practically busted a gut on that one.

I'm probably a hoarder in closets and where it's hidden. But then I get a kick to purge my stuff luckily. 

How often do you wash the walls, um, never, haha!

ETA: reread your post, and you mentioned socks, it made me think of the huge sack of socks with no matches, that I can't bear to get rid of in case I find socks. They are the whole family's missing socks from 20 or so years ago. I now use the holey ones as my dust rag and then throw it away finally.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Tacenda

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I can’t figure out my husband’s type of hoarding

There does seem to be different types. My mother- in- law is an extremely organized and neat hoarder. Sis in law is a messy hoarder but they are wealthy and she just hires someone to come in every couple of years to get her organized. It’s interesting. I know there’s some psychology to it but I don’t know what it is. 
 

1 hour ago, Calm said:

And I can’t drive, so the van is stuffed and the front room is now filling up.

If I lived near you I’d be your helper! 🙂

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

There does seem to be different types. My mother- in- law is an extremely organized and neat hoarder. Sis in law is a messy hoarder but they are wealthy and she just hires someone to come in every couple of years to get her organized. It’s interesting. I know there’s some psychology to it but I don’t know what it is. 
 

If I lived near you I’d be your helper! 🙂

 I appreciate that a very great deal.  It would be fun.