President oaks on the constitution

[JLHPROF]

39 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I would’ve voted for Tulsi...

I can't bring myself to vote any more in general.
I find no benefit or blessing in choosing the lesser of two evils.  Still evil.
Once in a while I find a candidate who I think has sufficient morals to merit a vote.  They'll try their best and stand for principle.

Edited April 5, 2021 by JLHPROF

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s not self-evident that President Nelson’s and President Oaks’s talks are the least bit inconsistent, much less “contradictory.” 
 

And I’ve got to say I’m more than a little perturbed by this emerging but unreasonable notion that to embrace the Church’s global reach we are compelled to disavow or ignore what Jesus Christ has said in the revelations about the U.S. Constitution. 

I don't think anyone is saying we have to ignore those things.  I think people were a little surprised to have a talk on the United States constitution in General Conference because it wasn't specifically applicable to most of the people watching/listening to it.    

For example, if one of the apostles stood up and gave a 20 talk on the government of Brazil and their political system--even connecting it to the gospel and Christ--I think most American members would be all "what does this have to do with me?" about it, at least at first.

Personally I liked the talk and didn't find anything off putting about it, and I think it can apply to all members everywhere.  But even with that I still thought it was an interesting (as in kind of odd) topic for an international church meeting.

I think this thread might also be coming up against the animosity that Pres. Oaks gets from a some members, regardless of what he speaks on.  He's one that a lot of members love to be very critical of, maybe because he often speaks about topics that people have strong feelings about.

 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The content on this thread has been largely disappointing. Despite the fact that a transcript of President Oaks’s talk has been provided (my thanks to Chum and Stargazer) the commentary so far has largely centered not on the content of his sermon but upon his having had the temerity to have selected the topic in the first place. I’ve even had my Americanism mocked, though I never intended that to be the focus of the thread. 
 

Very intellectually dissatisfying thus far. 

I missed the majority of conference due to family. Would you mind telling me which session of conference Elder Oaks' talk was in. I need to be able to listen at the moment.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But those unjust laws were eventually removed. How? By appealing through the judicial system to the Constitution, which the Lord had suffered to be established for the benefit of “all flesh” and because it is not right that any person should be in bondage to another. 

I am guessing you lost track of the conversation I was in  as your response doesn’t relate to the point I was making at all. 

[JLHPROF]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't think anyone is saying we have to ignore those things.  I think people were a little surprised to have a talk on the United States constitution in General Conference because it wasn't specifically applicable to most of the people watching/listening to it.    

For example, if one of the apostles stood up and gave a 20 talk on the government of Brazil and their political system--even connecting it to the gospel and Christ--I think most American members would be all "what does this have to do with me?" about it, at least at first.

Personally I liked the talk and didn't find anything off putting about it, and I think it can apply to all members everywhere.  But even with that I still thought it was an interesting (as in kind of odd) topic for an international church meeting.

I think this thread might also be coming up against the animosity that Pres. Oaks gets from a some members, regardless of what he speaks on.  He's one that a lot of members love to be very critical of, maybe because he often speaks about topics that people have strong feelings about.

 

I agree with you.
But when the government of Brazil and their political system features in the Doctrine and Covenants it might be a bit more acceptable a topic.  The US Constitution IS scriptural (although not scripture despite some people's best efforts to label it as such).

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

You think we have it worse than slaves did when refused their god given right to life, liberty, and happiness; the treatment of the Native Americans; than when women couldn’t vote; than the blacks once getting the federal right to vote still being prevented from voting by states and counties; than the Saints who were driven out of Nauvoo and forced to give up living plural marriage, a major religious practice?

It’s about to get much worse because the freedom of the entire world, and every soul living on it, is now precariously hanging in the balance. We are now living an an ultra high tech world where it will be quite easy for the tech savvy modern-day Gadianton to make every member of the human family to become a constantly observed and monitored slave to the devil and his diabolical earthly servants.

 

In October of 1988, during his last General Conference address, President Ezra Taft Benson most solemnly warned the Church that the gigantic worldwide secret combination of the last days, prophesied by the prophet Moroni in Ether Chapter 8, was then in existence (1988) and even then gaining increasing conspiratorial control over the United States and the entire world. This secret combination has now had 33 more years to consolidate its power and control, and things are about to get so bad that this Whore of Babylon, in fulfillment of Nephi’s vision in 1 Nephi 14, is going to unite all the nations under her control to viciously persecute the Church of the Lamb of God and attempt to destroy the influence of Christ and his Church from off the face of the earth. This persecution will mark the starting point when the time of the prophesied great tribulation when God’s wrath is going to be poured out upon a world ripening in iniquity without measure is going to sweep over the entire earth, with the exception of those who have fled to those holy places of safety and refuge in Zion.

 

I must admit I find it absolutely mind boggling that faithful, active members of the Church apparently can’t see what’s happening in fulfillment of prophesy right before their eyes. The devil and his earthly minions aren’t even skulking in the dark and longer, but are performing most of their works of godless destruction out in the open for all the world to see; yet few seem able to discern the painfully obvious.

 

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised because the Book of Revelation warns us that almost the entire world, and perhaps even some of the very elect of God’s kingdom, are going to be left in the dark and deceived. This is one of the reasons why President Russell is warning that only those who  possess the Spirit of revelation in adequate supply will be able to safely navigate through the waters of cunning treachery of the last days. And don’t expect President Russell and the 14 to come right out into the open and make things clear because, for several perfectly sound reasons, it would be very dangerous for them to do so. This is why, in large measure, it’s now between each of us and the Holy Ghost. We now have no other choice that to become prophets and prophetesses in our own right or end up being deceived.

 

President Benson warned us that we are now living in the day when the following most dire prophecy is being fulfilled in real time. Some may just dismiss Moroni’s prophecy, and President Benson’s clear warning that it’s now the process of being literally fulfilled, as far fetched alarmist fantasies, but some of us know better...

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved. (Ether chapter eight)

Yes indeed, the danger of lost freedom and liberty is far greater now than ever before because we’re now talking about the actual destruction of the U.S. Constitution, which means wrongs will never again be able to be made right by appealing to it, and the nightmarish high tech enslavement of the entire world — Satan’s dream of ruthless coercive power and the destruction of human agency finally being realized.

P.S. No one on this board should expect to see me get involved in a “knock Dow, drag out” over these things because it would be unseemly and utterly futile for me to do so. If you can’t see it, I’m not going to be able to persuade you no matter how many facts I amass and how hard I try. But I will say this, in that same General Conference address (I Testify) President Benson warned the Church that the time is going to come when the issues are going to become so perfectly clear that there will no longer be the luxury of being able to ‘sit on the fence,” but each will have to make the conscious choice between either the Kingdom of God or the kingdom of the devil. When that day comes, may we all choose to align ourselves with Jesus Christ and his Kingdom.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by teddyaware

[SteveO]

20 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

With respect it is you who are confused. The retraction was not related to the call Rajah is citing (which was accompanied by an audio recording)

 

see here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/16/washington-post-correction-trump-call-georgia-investigator/
 

Awaiting your retraction. 

Retract what?  That we were talking about two different things?  Sure.

Edit: just wanted to add, that that phone call didn’t bother me either, which is why I was confused.  I don’t attribute much of anything Trump said or did to him being corrupt, as much as it was him just being a bloviating jackass.  IMHO 

Edited April 5, 2021 by SteveO

[Vanguard]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't think anyone is saying we have to ignore those things.  I think people were a little surprised to have a talk on the United States constitution in General Conference because it wasn't specifically applicable to most of the people watching/listening to it.    

For example, if one of the apostles stood up and gave a 20 talk on the government of Brazil and their political system--even connecting it to the gospel and Christ--I think most American members would be all "what does this have to do with me?" about it, at least at first.

Personally I liked the talk and didn't find anything off putting about it, and I think it can apply to all members everywhere.  But even with that I still thought it was an interesting (as in kind of odd) topic for an international church meeting.

I think this thread might also be coming up against the animosity that Pres. Oaks gets from a some members, regardless of what he speaks on.  He's one that a lot of members love to be very critical of, maybe because he often speaks about topics that people have strong feelings about.

 

If the Church had been restored in Brazil (which by the way is a marvelous 2nd choice!) and had experienced the growth that it has here in the States, I would entirely understand why an apostle would comment on the Brazilian political system in this way. The Constitution is inextricably linked to not only the restoration but also to the Gospel's continued existence. One talk out of how many? is not inappropriate in the least.

[Theosis]

Nelson - "Isn't it great to see the many colors and nationalities of a world wide church of God"? 

Oaks - "Hold my Diet Coke."

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Sorry, I don't count stating his authority and closing the talk. The content of the talk was all about aggrandizing himself. The topic strayed from the topic of Christ. It was a topic important to him for sure but missed the mark on his role as apostle. That's my opinion. 

Your opinion is wrong.

Aggrandizing himself? How? By saying he worked in law and is now an apostle? 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 hours ago, SteveO said:

Gimme a break.  You do know that came out as an outright lie that the Washington Post had to correct?

Another rake the mainstream press stepped on.  Do keep up on current events.

 

9 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Retract what?  That we were talking about two different things?  Sure.

I’m sorry did you call the direct quote an outright lie that was retracted or not?

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, longview said:

He lives in Calgary.  The rest is up to you.

have you ever heard of guy named Mario who lives in Houston?  

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I agree with you.
But when the government of Brazil and their political system features in the Doctrine and Covenants it might be a bit more acceptable a topic.  The US Constitution IS scriptural (although not scripture despite some people's best efforts to label it as such).

The Magna Carta is mentioned in D&C 135 so hopefully we will get a talk on that soon.  

[Duncan]

8 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

It’s about to get much worse because the freedom of the entire world, and every soul living on it, is now precariously hanging in the balance. We are now living an an ultra high tech world where it will be quite easy for the tech savvy modern-day Gadianton to make every member of the human family to become a constantly observed and monitored slave to the devil and his diabolical earthly servants.

 

In October of 1988, during his last General Conference address, President Ezra Taft Benson most solemnly warned the Church that the gigantic worldwide secret combination of the last days, prophesied by the prophet Moroni in Ether Chapter 8, was then in existence (1988) and even then gaining increasing conspiratorial control over the United States and the entire world. This secret combination has now had 33 more years to consolidate its power and control, and things are about to get so bad that this Whore of Babylon, in fulfillment of Nephi’s vision in 1 Nephi 14, is going to unite all the nations under her control to viciously persecute the Church of the Lamb of God and attempt to destroy the influence of Christ and his Church from off the face of the earth. This persecution will mark the starting point when the time of the prophesied great tribulation when God’s wrath is going to be poured out upon a world ripening in iniquity without measure is going to sweep over the entire earth, with the exception of those who have fled to those holy places of safety and refuge in Zion.

 

I must admit I find it absolutely mind boggling that faithful, active members of the Church apparently can’t see what’s happening in fulfillment of prophesy right before their eyes. The devil and his earthly minions aren’t even skulking in the dark and longer, but are performing most of their works of godless destruction out in the open for all the world to see; yet few seem able to discern the painfully obvious.

 

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised because the Book of Revelation warns us that almost the entire world, and perhaps even some of the very elect of God’s kingdom, are going to be left in the dark and deceived. This is one of the reasons why President Russell is warning that only those who  possess the Spirit of revelation in adequate supply will be able to safely navigate through the waters of cunning treachery of the last days. And don’t expect President Russell and the 14 to come right out into the open and make things clear because, for several perfectly sound reasons, it would be very dangerous for them to do so. This is why, in large measure, it’s now between each of us and the Holy Ghost. We now have no other choice that to become prophets and prophetesses in our own right or end up being deceived.

 

President Benson warned us that we are now living in the day when the following most dire prophecy is being fulfilled in real time. Some may just dismiss Moroni’s prophecy, and President Benson’s clear warning that it’s now the process of being literally fulfilled, as far fetched alarmist fantasies, but some of us know better...

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved. (Ether chapter eight)

Yes indeed, the danger of lost freedom and liberty is far greater now than ever before because we’re now talking about the actual destruction of the U.S. Constitution, which means wrongs will never again be able to be made right by appealing to it, and the nightmarish high tech enslavement of the entire world — Satan’s dream of ruthless coercive power and the destruction of human agency finally being realized.

P.S. No one on this board should expect to see me get involved in a “knock Dow, drag out” over these things because it would be unseemly and utterly futile for me to do so. If you can’t see it, I’m not going to be able to persuade you no matter how many facts I amass and how hard I try. But I will say this, in that same General Conference address (I Testify) President Benson warned the Church that the time is going to come when the issues are going to become so perfectly clear that there will no longer be the luxury of being able to ‘sit on the fence,” but each will have to make the conscious choice between either the Kingdom of God or the kingdom of the devil. When that day comes, may we all choose to align ourselves with Jesus Christ and his Kingdom.

 

you keep saying that was his last conference message but it wasn't. Why do you keep saying that? 

[ttribe]

Just now, Duncan said:

you keep saying that was his last conference message but it wasn't. Why do you keep saying that? 

Because it adds to his dramatic flair.

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Nelson - "Isn't it great to see the many colors and nationalities of a world wide church of God"? 

Oaks - "Hold my Diet Coke."

You’re using that wrong. You are supposed to top the first speaker in this bit. If President Oaks wanted to do this he would have had to talk about some intergalactic confederation of planets located just to the galactic south of Koloa and how varied the members in it are.

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

It’s about to get much worse because the freedom of the entire world, and every soul living on it, is now precariously hanging in the balance. We are now living an an ultra high tech world where it will be quite easy for the tech savvy modern-day Gadianton to make every member of the human family to become a constantly observed and monitored slave to the devil and his diabolical earthly servants.

 

In October of 1988, during his last General Conference address, President Ezra Taft Benson most solemnly warned the Church that the gigantic worldwide secret combination of the last days, prophesied by the prophet Moroni in Ether Chapter 8, was then in existence (1988) and even then gaining increasing conspiratorial control over the United States and the entire world. This secret combination has now had 33 more years to consolidate its power and control, and things are about to get so bad that this Whore of Babylon, in fulfillment of Nephi’s vision in 1 Nephi 14, is going to unite all the nations under her control to viciously persecute the Church of the Lamb of God and attempt to destroy the influence of Christ and his Church from off the face of the earth. This persecution will mark the starting point when the time of the prophesied great tribulation when God’s wrath is going to be poured out upon a world ripening in iniquity without measure is going to sweep over the entire earth, with the exception of those who have fled to those holy places of safety and refuge in Zion.

 

I must admit I find it absolutely mind boggling that faithful, active members of the Church apparently can’t see what’s happening in fulfillment of prophesy right before their eyes. The devil and his earthly minions aren’t even skulking in the dark and longer, but are performing most of their works of godless destruction out in the open for all the world to see; yet few seem able to discern the painfully obvious.

 

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised because the Book of Revelation warns us that almost the entire world, and perhaps even some of the very elect of God’s kingdom, are going to be left in the dark and deceived. This is one of the reasons why President Russell is warning that only those who  possess the Spirit of revelation in adequate supply will be able to safely navigate through the waters of cunning treachery of the last days. And don’t expect President Russell and the 14 to come right out into the open and make things clear because, for several perfectly sound reasons, it would be very dangerous for them to do so. This is why, in large measure, it’s now between each of us and the Holy Ghost. We now have no other choice that to become prophets and prophetesses in our own right or end up being deceived.

 

President Benson warned us that we are now living in the day when the following most dire prophecy is being fulfilled in real time. Some may just dismiss Moroni’s prophecy, and President Benson’s clear warning that it’s now the process of being literally fulfilled, as far fetched alarmist fantasies, but some of us know better...

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved. (Ether chapter eight)

Yes indeed, the danger of lost freedom and liberty is far greater now than ever before because we’re now talking about the actual destruction of the U.S. Constitution, which means wrongs will never again be able to be made right by appealing to it, and the nightmarish high tech enslavement of the entire world — Satan’s dream of ruthless coercive power and the destruction of human agency finally being realized.

P.S. No one on this board should expect to see me get involved in a “knock Dow, drag out” over these things because it would be unseemly and utterly futile for me to do so. If you can’t see it, I’m not going to be able to persuade you no matter how many facts I amass and how hard I try. But I will say this, in that same General Conference address (I Testify) President Benson warned the Church that the time is going to come when the issues are going to become so perfectly clear that there will no longer be the luxury of being able to ‘sit on the fence,” but each will have to make the conscious choice between either the Kingdom of God or the kingdom of the devil. When that day comes, may we all choose to align ourselves with Jesus Christ and his Kingdom.

 

President Russell?

[Duncan]

13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't think anyone is saying we have to ignore those things.  I think people were a little surprised to have a talk on the United States constitution in General Conference because it wasn't specifically applicable to most of the people watching/listening to it.    

For example, if one of the apostles stood up and gave a 20 talk on the government of Brazil and their political system--even connecting it to the gospel and Christ--I think most American members would be all "what does this have to do with me?" about it, at least at first.

Personally I liked the talk and didn't find anything off putting about it, and I think it can apply to all members everywhere.  But even with that I still thought it was an interesting (as in kind of odd) topic for an international church meeting.

I think this thread might also be coming up against the animosity that Pres. Oaks gets from a some members, regardless of what he speaks on.  He's one that a lot of members love to be very critical of, maybe because he often speaks about topics that people have strong feelings about.

 

I said it was a "snooze-a rama" as, no offense, I don't find the history of the US Constitution all that appealing but I wouldn't expect a non-Canadian to get excited about the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom to be intellectually stimulating! hahahhha! it kind of came out of left field like Elder Andersen's abortion talk, it just seemed odd to talk about those subjects at worldwide general conference

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Because it adds to his dramatic flair.

And lying is okay it if services the dramatic narrative and you are on the side of the tinfoil conspiracy angels.

[SteveO]

6 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

 

I’m sorry did you call the direct quote an outright lie that was retracted or not?

We were talking about two different phone calls.  He was talking about the call to Georgia Sec of State Brad Raffensperger, and I was talking about the call to Frances Watson.  So yes I was mistaken.  I disagree with the context he framed it, but yes I was incorrect.

[CV75]

31 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Sorry, I don't count stating his authority and closing the talk. The content of the talk was all about aggrandizing himself. The topic strayed from the topic of Christ. It was a topic important to him for sure but missed the mark on his role as apostle. That's my opinion. 

You're not reading where and how the mention of Jesus Christ, God and Lord are used, knowing that the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ have everything to do with preserving moral agency and its ultimate exercise.

For example: "I testify of the divinely inspired constitution of the United States and pray that we who recognize the divine being who inspired it will always uphold and defend its great principles. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen."

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Chum said:

It usually can. \t for tab \r\n for linefeed - search set for extended.

Darn, I forgot about that.

3 hours ago, Chum said:

You ever do any Church related coding projects? We could start a thread.

In order to get our stake budget into a spreadsheet, I wrote an app reads through a screenscraping of the expense summary, and converts it to a tab-delimited text file. Nothing much more exciting than that.

[JLHPROF]

28 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The Magna Carta is mentioned in D&C 135 so hopefully we will get a talk on that soon.  

We just did.  The Magna Charta of the United States in verse 7 is a reference to Constitutional principle.

Edited April 5, 2021 by JLHPROF

[SteveO]

45 minutes ago, Theosis said:

 The content of the talk was all about aggrandizing himself. 

If the brethren aren’t straying from their lane of expertise, they’re lording their credentials over us to make sure you feel stupid.

 

Can’t ever win, can they?

[ttribe]

36 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

It’s about to get much worse because the freedom of the entire world, and every soul living on it, is now precariously hanging in the balance. We are now living an an ultra high tech world where it will be quite easy for the tech savvy modern-day Gadianton to make every member of the human family to become a constantly observed and monitored slave to the devil and his diabolical earthly servants.

 

In October of 1988, during his last General Conference address, President Ezra Taft Benson most solemnly warned the Church that the gigantic worldwide secret combination of the last days, prophesied by the prophet Moroni in Ether Chapter 8, was then in existence (1988) and even then gaining increasing conspiratorial control over the United States and the entire world. This secret combination has now had 33 more years to consolidate its power and control, and things are about to get so bad that this Whore of Babylon, in fulfillment of Nephi’s vision in 1 Nephi 14, is going to unite all the nations under her control to viciously persecute the Church of the Lamb of God and attempt to destroy the influence of Christ and his Church from off the face of the earth. This persecution will mark the starting point when the time of the prophesied great tribulation when God’s wrath is going to be poured out upon a world ripening in iniquity without measure is going to sweep over the entire earth, with the exception of those who have fled to those holy places of safety and refuge in Zion.

 

I must admit I find it absolutely mind boggling that faithful, active members of the Church apparently can’t see what’s happening in fulfillment of prophesy right before their eyes. The devil and his earthly minions aren’t even skulking in the dark and longer, but are performing most of their works of godless destruction out in the open for all the world to see; yet few seem able to discern the painfully obvious.

 

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised because the Book of Revelation warns us that almost the entire world, and perhaps even some of the very elect of God’s kingdom, are going to be left in the dark and deceived. This is one of the reasons why President Russell is warning that only those who  possess the Spirit of revelation in adequate supply will be able to safely navigate through the waters of cunning treachery of the last days. And don’t expect President Russell and the 14 to come right out into the open and make things clear because, for several perfectly sound reasons, it would be very dangerous for them to do so. This is why, in large measure, it’s now between each of us and the Holy Ghost. We now have no other choice that to become prophets and prophetesses in our own right or end up being deceived.

 

President Benson warned us that we are now living in the day when the following most dire prophecy is being fulfilled in real time. Some may just dismiss Moroni’s prophecy, and President Benson’s clear warning that it’s now the process of being literally fulfilled, as far fetched alarmist fantasies, but some of us know better...

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved. (Ether chapter eight)

Yes indeed, the danger of lost freedom and liberty is far greater now than ever before because we’re now talking about the actual destruction of the U.S. Constitution, which means wrongs will never again be able to be made right by appealing to it, and the nightmarish high tech enslavement of the entire world — Satan’s dream of ruthless coercive power and the destruction of human agency finally being realized.

P.S. No one on this board should expect to see me get involved in a “knock Dow, drag out” over these things because it would be unseemly and utterly futile for me to do so. If you can’t see it, I’m not going to be able to persuade you no matter how many facts I amass and how hard I try. But I will say this, in that same General Conference address (I Testify) President Benson warned the Church that the time is going to come when the issues are going to become so perfectly clear that there will no longer be the luxury of being able to ‘sit on the fence,” but each will have to make the conscious choice between either the Kingdom of God or the kingdom of the devil. When that day comes, may we all choose to align ourselves with Jesus Christ and his Kingdom.

 

Serious question - Are you equating President Benson's "warn[ing] [to] the Church that the gigantic worldwide secret combination of the last days, prophesied by the prophet Moroni in Ether Chapter 8, was then in existence (1988) and even then gaining increasing conspiratorial control over the United States and the entire world" with the "New World Order" often mentioned in various right-wing circles and writings?