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President oaks on the constitution


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1 minute ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Nah, I listened to the recording. It’s exactly word-for-word quote, but I’ll drop it because when we discuss these things about our own nation the thread gets closed. I’ll stick to talking about nameless countries. 

I’m sure you did.  You should write the Washington Post and tell them to retract the retraction—you just know better.
 

Carry on talking about nameless countries.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Calm said:

You think we have it worse than slaves did when refused their god given right to life, liberty, and happiness; the treatment of the Native Americans; than when women couldn’t vote; than the blacks once getting the federal right to vote still being prevented from voting by states and counties; than the Saints who were driven out of Nauvoo and forced to give up living plural marriage, a major religious practice?

Didn't you know?  Middle-aged white guys are the new oppressed class! 

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10 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Didn't you know?  Middle-aged white guys are the new oppressed class! 

Getting there.

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8 minutes ago, SteveO said:

you just know better.

If someone I voted for had said the same thing, I probably wouldn’t know better. Party lines can be blinding.

I am hopeful President Oakes’ comments on not being afraid to jump parties when it’s needed will help us all cut through that.  

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Getting there.

Speaking as a middle-aged white guy, I find your assertion to be absurd.

 

Reynolds Facepalm.gif

Edited by ttribe
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4 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I worked in the oil fields.  Before that, I was coming out of my time in the infantry in the army, I had worked in an iron foundry before my mission to pay for it.  I worked in a tin factory, construction, truck driving, even a janitor as a college graduate for a time.  Currently work as a Ionic Implementation and Controls technician—in other words I have a lot of blue collar experience working around some pretty rough guys.  Not all of them middle aged and white, but mostly.

I understand other groups of people have had it worse, or continue to have it worse, and I don’t think middle aged white men are “oppressed”.  But I did begin to see the pain that a lot of them felt and continue to feel knowing they screwed their lives up and are paying the dividends for it.  It’s one thing to know you’re being screwed over by someone else, it’s another to know you did it to yourself.  Despite your political choices narrating otherwise.  These guys know they screwed up.  And it’s an awful, horrible existence.  In and out of jail, divorced, fighting for time with the kids, or just not seeing them ever.  They’re unhappy, lonely, and have no one to talk to.  I am one of the most introverted guys you’d ever meet, anf these guys would be desperate to talk to anyone.  I have a co worker now who talks to me every chance he gets.  Because I’m the first young guy to engage him.  His wife died of cancer, lives alone, he’s hard to work with, angry most of the time.  And yet he’s desperate for understanding. 
 

This past weekend reminded me that we’re all hurting and suffering.  And we should try and have some empathy for everyone, no matter how hard they are to love.

And i understand I’m probably the worst ambassador for this kind of message.  But there it is.

Beautifully put, SteveO. 
 

I mentioned I’ve had my Americanism unjustly mocked on this thread. Now I see mockery over skin color and age. 
 

People, we are better than this!

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Now you’re not even making sense. 

as opposed to talking about the US Constitution on Easter Sunday? I invited friends to hear that?!

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1 hour ago, longview said:

The principles of the Constitution have distilled on every nation and blessed all peoples (even those living in totalitarian tryanny [although indirect]).  You do not have to be LDS to appreciate what your non-LDS pastor neighbor has proclaimed - - -

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1378506465158303747?s=20

i've never heard of Ezra Levant

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2 hours ago, Duncan said:

okay, next conference I want to hear a talk about how God raised up Nelson Mandela

Does this count?  This whole talk revolves around this quote from Mandela.  This was a phenomenal talk, one of my favorites from recent years. 

 

"My dear brothers and sisters, in December 2013 the world mourned the death of Nelson Mandela. After 27 years of imprisonment for his role in the antiapartheid struggle, Mandela was the first democratically elected president of South Africa. His forgiveness of those who had imprisoned him was remarkable. He received widespread acclaim and praise.1 Mandela frequently deflected accolades by saying, “I’m no saint—that is, unless you think a saint is a sinner who keeps on trying.”2

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2015/04/latter-day-saints-keep-on-trying?lang=eng

 

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14 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

If someone I voted for had said the same thing, I probably wouldn’t know better. Party lines can be blinding.

I am hopeful President Oakes’ comments on not being afraid to jump parties when it’s needed will help us all cut through that.  

You don’t know better.  There’s plenty of whataboutisms I could tick off that you’d probably just shrug your shoulders at.

You know, his words can just as easily apply to someone like you and how you view members who voted for “R” in November...

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2 hours ago, Theosis said:

Wholly disagree. I'm not saying the subject has to be on Easter, but the messages should be centered in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Oaks talk had nothing to do with Christ, the gospel or drawing close to him. It was a pride sermon spoken by the prideful. 

Ummmmm.....

 

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17 minutes ago, Duncan said:

i've never heard of Ezra Levant

He lives in Calgary.  The rest is up to you.

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I was surprised he talked about the US constitution simply because Pres. Nelson had previously spoken about how the church is a global church.  Then to have a talk that often alienates or produces the “eye roll” from people of non-USA countries was a bit contradictory....

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26 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I worked in the oil fields.  Before that, I was coming out of my time in the infantry in the army, I had worked in an iron foundry before my mission to pay for it.  I worked in a tin factory, construction, truck driving, even a janitor as a college graduate for a time.  Currently work as a Ionic Implementation and Controls technician—in other words I have a lot of blue collar experience working around some pretty rough guys.  Not all of them middle aged and white, but mostly.

I understand other groups of people have had it worse, or continue to have it worse, and I don’t think middle aged white men are “oppressed”.  But I did begin to see the pain that a lot of them felt and continue to feel knowing they screwed their lives up and are paying the dividends for it.  It’s one thing to know you’re being screwed over by someone else, it’s another to know you did it to yourself.  Despite your political choices narrating otherwise.  These guys know they screwed up.  And it’s an awful, horrible existence.  In and out of jail, divorced, fighting for time with the kids, or just not seeing them ever.  They’re unhappy, lonely, and have no one to talk to.  I am one of the most introverted guys you’d ever meet, anf these guys would be desperate to talk to anyone.  I have a co worker now who talks to me every chance he gets.  Because I’m the first young guy to engage him.  His wife died of cancer, lives alone, he’s hard to work with, angry most of the time.  And yet he’s desperate for understanding. 
 

This past weekend reminded me that we’re all hurting and suffering.  And we should try and have some empathy for everyone, no matter how hard they are to love.

And i understand I’m probably the worst ambassador for this kind of message.  But there it is.

No one is immune from any of what you just mentioned and none of that has anything to do with the latest fad of middle-aged white guys complaining about how oppressed they are by the government in the current era.

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14 minutes ago, ttribe said:

No one is immune from any of what you just mentioned and none of that has anything to do with the latest fad of middle-aged white guys complaining about how oppressed they are by the government in the current era.

Ok

Edited by SteveO
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1 minute ago, SteveO said:

You don’t know better.  There’s plenty of whataboutisms I could tick off that you’d probably just shrug your shoulders at.

You know, his words can just as easily apply to someone like you and how you view members who voted for “R” in November...

Dunno. Anyway, when I got to the end of Oakes’ talk I wondered if I could bring myself to vote across party lines if there was a more urgent and immediate requirement that took priority over my personal political views. I’m kinda embarrassed to admit that it’d be hard to do, and that’s a problem I should figure out.

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3 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Dunno. Anyway, when I got to the end of Oakes’ talk I wondered if I could bring myself to vote across party lines if there was a more urgent and immediate requirement that took priority over my personal political views. I’m kinda embarrassed to admit that it’d be hard to do, and that’s a problem I should figure out.

I would’ve voted for Tulsi...

True story.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Duncan said:

as opposed to talking about the US Constitution on Easter Sunday? I invited friends to hear that?!

I’ve already said I felt it was a perfectly appropriate topic for Easter. You won’t make any headway with me by repeating yourself. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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11 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I was surprised he talked about the US constitution simply because Pres. Nelson had previously spoken about how the church is a global church.  Then to have a talk that often alienates or produces the “eye roll” from people of non-USA countries was a bit contradictory....

It’s not self-evident that President Nelson’s and President Oaks’s talks are the least bit inconsistent, much less “contradictory.” 
 

And I’ve got to say I’m more than a little perturbed by this emerging but unreasonable notion that to embrace the Church’s global reach we are compelled to disavow or ignore what Jesus Christ has said in the revelations about the U.S. Constitution. 

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I thought it was appropriate (though I was a bit surprised to have it be a conference talk topic) duet to the fact that Pres. Oaks mentioned that the Bill of Rights only came into existence a mere 30 years before the start of the restoration of the gospel.  That coupled with the fact that the church could not have been re-established without the framework fo the new American freedoms/government, means the US Constitution is undeniably linked forever tot he restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in that way - while not a part of the doctrine, it was instrumental in the global church we enjoy today.  

 

I need to re-visit the talk and learn what I am supposed to get out of it myself.  I feel there is a lot that went by me as I tried to overthink such a unique talk.  Pres. Oaks never seems to disappoint when  it comes to getting people talking...  🙂

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1 hour ago, SteveO said:

I’m sure you did.  You should write the Washington Post and tell them to retract the retraction—you just know better.
 

Carry on talking about nameless countries.

 

 

With respect it is you who are confused. The retraction was not related to the call Rajah is citing (which was accompanied by an audio recording)

 

see here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/16/washington-post-correction-trump-call-georgia-investigator/
 

Awaiting your retraction. 

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2 hours ago, CV75 said:

"Jesus Christ" appears 4 times, "God" 4 times, "Lord" 3 times.

Sorry, I don't count stating his authority and closing the talk. The content of the talk was all about aggrandizing himself. The topic strayed from the topic of Christ. It was a topic important to him for sure but missed the mark on his role as apostle. That's my opinion. 

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