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collateral damage from covid


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We see reports of damage to people from suicide, depression, drug use, domestic abuse etc. which are increasing because of the reactions to covid. 

I see another " elephant  " , environmental damage. What will be the result of 100's of millions of masks tossed in the garbage daily/weekly/monthly ? 

In my daily travels I find (mostly) paper masks tossed in the street. Is there a bio-hazard here? I haven't seen much discussion in the media about this, maybe it is minor but still.

 Feel free to discuss this or any other indirect damage you might witness or are concerned about. 

What happens if covid becomes endemic? Measles still kills about 140,000 people every year worldwide and we have good vaccines for it. 

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I notice that too, these blue masks dumped on the ground. I don't know what the answer is.

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I think that is a good question regarding the environmental aspects.  Are humans filling up landfills faster during Covid, less, or about the same?  
I don’t know.  While there is more online shopping, I don’t know that it equates to more packaging and non-recycled materials.  

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2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

there a bio-hazard here?

Probably not as virus degrades fast.  It is not like it is decomposing body parts or sharp objects.  If you are picking up someone else's, I would do it by theloops, preferably with gloves on, but washing or sanitizing hands afterwards should be enough.  If it was a biohazard, they would be advising more than just washing hands after handling as well as special disposal (I have an official biohazard container for our sharps, it has a detailed instruction on how to deal with it).

Edited by Calm
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Suicides, alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic violence, all rising because of covid.  It's a tragedy, and absolutely needs to be weighted against lockdowns and quarantines and whatnot.  Disrupted medical care and closed gyms and group fitness classes, are beginning to take a toll that will be long lasting.  I certainly did myself no favors sitting in my basement for 4 months and not exercising after they sent me home from work.

Yes indeed, over 150,000 people die every single day in the world.  That's in an average year.  Yes, that's every single day.  COVID-19 has certainly made a noticeable blip in that: a (very) rough estimate of 4-5k deaths/day worldwide, but yes, perspective is important.   Bigger killers like heart disease and alzheimer's don't warrant harming economies and legislating behavior changes to the extent that we're doing here.   (I'm not arguing against our national or worldwide responses, just saying perspective is important.)

As for landfill and biohazard concerns, I couldn't think of a less serious thing to be thinking about right now.  The notion that "landfills are filling up" is some sort of real thing or bad thing, can't really exist after 5 minutes of serious thought.  Again - perspective is important.  Tell folks what - go to google Earth, and if you can (without cheating) scroll around the Earth and find even one single actual landfill, using only the zoom in/out and scroll around tools, then we can talk.   The world is a big place.  Masks don't contaminate air or water.

 

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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My guess is the extra trash is more than made up for by the huge worldwide reduction in the stuff that comes from cars and factorys not in use.   There have been clear skies in many places that have allowed quantification of the amount of polluting substances caused by such things.

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I never agreed with total shutdowns. It was and still is my opinion that all businesses are essential. Why was The Home Depot essential but not the local hair salon? The people who are telling everybody to stay home (certain news reporters and politicians) are working and getting paid. Countless jobs have been lost.

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Utah is getting close to rationing care with a number of people being allowed to die because of the ICU being full.  I was told at work today that at a hospital here, the ICU nurses are just getting burned out.  Each is caring for up to 7 patients.  Yet so many just don't seem to care in this state.  Not a good time to get in a car accident, have a heart attack, or other emergency in Utah.  Even if you get to the ICU, your care will be compromised. 

Edited by carbon dioxide
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12 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Utah is getting close to rationing care with a number of people being allowed to die because of the ICU being full.  I was told at work today that at a hospital here, the ICU nurses are just getting burned out.  Each is caring for up to 7 patients.  Yet so many just don't seem to care in this state.  Not a good time to get in a car accident, have a heart attack, or other emergency in Utah.  Even if you get to the ICU, your care will be compromised. 

Are the new Utah cases consistent with the National age/pre-existing-condition statistics?

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As I have said before, the Covid shutdown is an excuse for government workers to collect their pay but do nothing.  No lifeguards, building and safety inspections, park rangers, and the like.  Entire swaths of parks and running trails have been shut down -- because government workers didn't want to be there to supervise.  Large sections of California coastlines -- closed.   Parking lots to access the coast -- closed.  Marathons -- cancelled because no permits would issue.   Insurance commissioner's office; the DMV; you name it. 

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12 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Utah is getting close to rationing care with a number of people being allowed to die because of the ICU being full. 

And your neighbor to your East, here I sit in Colorado with COVID only taking up 6% of our hospital capacity.  It's crazy.

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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17 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

 Bigger killers like heart disease and alzheimer's don't warrant harming economies and legislating behavior changes to the extent that we're doing here.  

If they were infectious diseases it would warrant taking some of these measures.  

17 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Suicides, alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic violence, all rising because of covid.  It's a tragedy, and absolutely needs to be weighted against lockdowns and quarantines and whatnot.  Disrupted medical care and closed gyms and group fitness classes, are beginning to take a toll that will be long lasting.  I certainly did myself no favors sitting in my basement for 4 months and not exercising after they sent me home from work.

I would argue that it is the resistance against quarantine, masks, and lockdowns that are responsible for most of the collateral damage from Covid.   Our current national plan (or lack thereof) simply isn't working to keep Covid in check, or protect against collateral damage.  We see the worst from both worlds!  It's a disaster. 

When we work together as a nation in solidarity against the virus...we win.  We could have  avoided most of the collateral damage if we had a good leader and cooperative citizens.  Just look at Taiwan and South Korea, they have single digit deaths/day.   They don't have severe lockdowns.  They are "workiing, living, succeeding".

Here is a great article about it:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/getting-healthy-now/202004/defending-the-right-infect

#Covidsucks!

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1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said:

As I have said before, the Covid shutdown is an excuse for government workers to collect their pay but do nothing.  No lifeguards, building and safety inspections, park rangers, and the like.  Entire swaths of parks and running trails have been shut down -- because government workers didn't want to be there to supervise.  Large sections of California coastlines -- closed.   Parking lots to access the coast -- closed.  Marathons -- cancelled because no permits would issue.   Insurance commissioner's office; the DMV; you name it. 

 Because a hurting economy, job loss, etc. is great for government tax revenue, right?  

You don't know what you are talking about.  Come work in the health department and look at all the lazy government workers doing "nothing".   We are exhausted!  We are all working crazy over-time and have very little to no work/life balance right now.  Most are trying to do their normal government jobs AND are involved in the Covid response on top of what they normally do.  We are all burned out.  We are also scared for our jobs.  We know that funding is gone and layoffs are coming.  No department of the government will be unscathed. That means reduced services for the community.  Everyone in government is hurting and scared right now.   

Quote

 

Jobs with state and city governments are usually a source of stability in the U.S. economy, but the financial devastation wrought by the coronavirus pandemic has forced cuts that will reduce public services — from schools to trash pickup.

Even as the U.S. added some jobs in May, the number of people employed by federal, state and local governments dropped by 585,000. The overall job losses among public workers have reached more than 1.5 million since March, according to seasonally adjusted federal jobs data released Friday. The number of government employees is now the lowest it's been since 2001, and most of the cuts are at the local level.

https://fortune.com/2020/06/06/government-job-loss-public-workers-unemployment/

 

And that was written back in early JUNE!

Edited by pogi
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1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

And your neighbor to your East, here I sit in Colorado with COVID only taking up 6% of our hospital capacity.  It's crazy.

That is crazy.  Good job Colorado!  You are doing something right there.
 

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For weeks now the message has been clear: wear a mask. 

It turns out Coloradans are listening and health officials are watching to make sure.

If you’ve noticed more people wearing masks at stores and businesses, you’re not alone. Health departments across the state are beginning to keep track of how many people are wearing masks while going out, and the results are encouraging.

 Back in May and June the number hovered around 60 to 80 percent. Now the health department is reporting more than 90 percent of people in Adams, Arapahoe and Douglas counties are wearing masks.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/public-health-departments-across-colorado-are-keeping-track-of-how-many-people-are-wearing-masks/73-6a2e44be-4f12-4bb5-b7bf-aaad61ac637f

 

 

Edited by pogi
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4 hours ago, pogi said:

 Because a hurting economy, job loss, etc. is great for government tax revenue, right?  

You don't know what you are talking about.  Come work in the health department and look at all the lazy government workers doing "nothing".   We are exhausted!  We are all working crazy over-time and have very little to no work/life balance right now.  Most are trying to do their normal government jobs AND are involved in the Covid response on top of what they normally do.  We are all burned out.  We are also scared for our jobs.  We know that funding is gone and layoffs are coming.  No department of the government will be unscathed. That means reduced services for the community.  Everyone in government is hurting and scared right now.   

And that was written back in early JUNE!

Not all government workers are lazy.  But the huge community of government workers have let society down.

Government workers continue to collect pay, but private workers do not.  Government pay has only an indirect relationship to taxation.

You have not disputed the fact that the government has suspended the operations of lifeguards, park rangers, building inspectors, building and safety workers, and others.  As a lawyer I can't get action from the departments in California that administer health care, securities, insurance, gas and oil, because they are all home -- collecting a pay check.  I can go on and on about how the government has failed the ordinary citizen.  

The government workers that are working -- police and firemen -- are not receiving the governmental support for their needs.  

I do know what I am talking about.  I am an administrative practice lawyer.  My job is to work on behalf of clients to get administrative action done.  

Want to get a medical clinic approved?   

What to get into court to have your civil case heard?

What to challenge the actions of an insurance company?

Want to build a new building in town?

 

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1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said:

 But the huge community of government workers have let society down.

Honestly, it is society (and politicians) who is letting the government public health workers down, right now; and in turn, letting society down by shooting themselves in the foot. 

1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said:

You have not disputed the fact that the government has suspended the operations of lifeguards, park rangers, building inspectors, building and safety workers, and others.  As a lawyer I can't get action from the departments in California that administer health care, securities, insurance, gas and oil, because they are all home -- collecting a pay check.  I can go on and on about how the government has failed the ordinary citizen.  

You have not disputed that over 1.5 million of them have been laid off.   That doesn't sound like the gravy train to me.   

Keep in mind the actual government workers who make the decisions about lock downs are not riding any gravy train either.  They are more stressed than anybody right now.   That is quite the conspiracy you have concocted.  Local governments shut down business, claiming to protect the public from a pandemic, but really, they don't care about the health of the public, or their economic well-being, they just want an easy job.  They are willing to sink the economy in the name of public health for the sole purpose of having an easy job.  That is really what your claim boils down too.  I think that is out-of-line smearing and unfounded accusations against good working people. 

Edited by pogi
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Well, Colorado has had a statewide mandatory-indoor-masks order for several months now.  As to how well that's working, well, depends on who you ask.  Here is mask usage vs per capita cases.  Do you see any obvious trend lines?  'Cuz I sure the heck don't...

Image

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12 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Well, Colorado has had a statewide mandatory-indoor-masks order for several months now.  As to how well that's working, well, depends on who you ask.  Here is mask usage vs per capita cases.  Do you see any obvious trend lines?  'Cuz I sure the heck don't...

Image

Can you post a link for context and explanation?

 

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15 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Well, Colorado has had a statewide mandatory-indoor-masks order for several months now.  As to how well that's working, well, depends on who you ask.  Here is mask usage vs per capita cases.  Do you see any obvious trend lines?  'Cuz I sure the heck don't...

Image

It needs to show change in case rate rather than absolute numbers I am guessing as how bad they had it at the time of the mandate might make a difference. 

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