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collateral damage from covid


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Colorado has more in the hospital and Utah has 1/4 of the deaths. 

I am grateful we know how to treat this better. 

Utah had a low number number of ICU beds to begin with. Statewide, a read a total of 500. Utah has 299 in the hospital. I think around 100 in ICU’s. 

Colorado has not done better than Utah in the past with covid and is experiencing its own surge of cases.

 

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19 hours ago, pogi said:

Honestly, it is society (and politicians) who is letting the government public health workers down, right now; and in turn, letting society down by shooting themselves in the foot. 

You have not disputed that over 1.5 million of them have been laid off.   That doesn't sound like the gravy train to me.   

Keep in mind the actual government workers who make the decisions about lock downs are not riding any gravy train either.  They are more stressed than anybody right now.   That is quite the conspiracy you have concocted.  Local governments shut down business, claiming to protect the public from a pandemic, but really, they don't care about the health of the public, or their economic well-being, they just want an easy job.  They are willing to sink the economy in the name of public health for the sole purpose of having an easy job.  That is really what your claim boils down too.  I think that is out-of-line smearing and unfounded accusations against good working people. 

I indeed dispute what you say. 

As a whole they are not good working people. 

Want a job as a park ranger?   Stay home.  Do nothing.  Collect a paycheck.  Despite the fact the job is outdoors. 

Does your city in California have a system of outdoor areas such as running trails or beaches?  Shut them down.  But employees who supervise them collect paychex. 

By contrast, private sector employees are out of a job.  I employ 20 people. I now have to borrow to pay them.  I can't keep it up.  Yet the City employees who work across the street from my office are getting paid. To stay home.  To do nothing. To provide no service. To rob the taxpayers.  

I realize it is the nature of government employees to say, "I have nothing to do with this.".  But they are largely tubs of jello pudding.  

Edited by Bob Crockett
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12 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

I indeed dispute what you say. 

As a whole they are not good working people. 

Want a job as a park ranger?   Stay home.  Do nothing.  Collect a paycheck.  Despite the fact the job is outdoors. 

Does your city in California have a system of outdoor areas such as running trails or beaches?  Shut them down.  But employees who supervise them collect paychex. 

By contrast, private sector employees are out of a job.  I employ 20 people. I now have to borrow to pay them.  I can't keep it up.  Yet the City employees who work across the street from my office are getting paid. To stay home.  To do nothing. To provide no service. To rob the taxpayers.  

I realize it is the nature of government employees to say, "I have nothing to do with this.".  But they are largely tubs of jello pudding.  

And Park Ranger Stan is somehow determining government policy? How exactly? Probably a bit above his paygrade wouldn't you think? 

It is odd that your response is to berate the public workers who are not responsible for the decision instead of asking why no one is helping you and your employees survive this time as well.

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12 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

As a whole they are not good working people. 

As a whole, they are not lazy either. 

I would suggest that most want to work.  Most are afraid of losing their jobs right now.

12 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

By contrast, private sector employees are out of a job. 

That is not a contrast.  That is happening in the public sector as well.  As I already noted, as of July 1.5 million government workers are out of a job since the beginning of the pandemic.  Numbers are likely much higher by now.  

None of your comment addresses your claim that government workers are implementing lock-downs so that they can get paid to not work.   That is a serious claim!  Back it up.  Who is it exactly that has authority to instigate lock-downs?  Prove to me that that person is not working, is not completely stressed out, is not desperate to get the economy back on track and to get his employees working again.  Prove to me that they are doing this all to coast on the gravy train and get paid.  Where is your evidence?  Where is the gravy train for these decision makers? 

Shutting down the economy so they don't have to work as hard in their personal job?  Get real!

 

 

Edited by pogi
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12 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

I indeed dispute what you say. 

As a whole they are not good working people. 

Want a job as a park ranger?   Stay home.  Do nothing.  Collect a paycheck.  Despite the fact the job is outdoors. 

Does your city in California have a system of outdoor areas such as running trails or beaches?  Shut them down.  But employees who supervise them collect paychex. 

By contrast, private sector employees are out of a job.  I employ 20 people. I now have to borrow to pay them.  I can't keep it up.  Yet the City employees who work across the street from my office are getting paid. To stay home.  To do nothing. To provide no service. To rob the taxpayers.  

I realize it is the nature of government employees to say, "I have nothing to do with this.".  But they are largely tubs of jello pudding.  

Beaches and running trails are not shut down in California.  They have been open almost the entire time.  I have been going to the beach all summer.  

 

From the National Park web site

Quote

Most of the 421 units of the National Park System are available to visitors. However, some facilities and services may be limited. As operations are changing on a park-by-park basis, we recommend visitors check with individual parks for specific details about their operations, including campgrounds.

Why all of this dumping on government workers.  What exactly do you want them to be doing?  Or is this just a covid rant?

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47 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

And Park Ranger Stan is somehow determining government policy? How exactly? Probably a bit above his paygrade wouldn't you think? 

It is odd that your response is to berate the public workers who are not responsible for the decision instead of asking why no one is helping you and your employees survive this time as well.

Why should I ask for help?

The rant against the Park Ranger Stan is just an analogue.   County and State parks have been closed in California by bureaucrats at the direction of county and state political employees.  It is too easy for the bureaucrats and employees to go along with this.  They are all getting paid.  I've not heard of any layoffs in California.

You have to understand that my legal practice involves gaining access to permit granters and bureaucrats for clients.  No can do as a general matter.  Things are opening up but I question why this was done in the first place.  Government should be there to serve the public, not retreat and hide.

And, California beaches have been closed for long periods of time depending upon the county.  I live in San Clemente.  County lifeguards would go up and down the coast in boats demanding that surfers get out of the water.  Counties have since opened their beaches, but it took months.  In Los Angeles County, a paddleboarder was arrested. 

Edited by Bob Crockett
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21 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

What percentage of gov't workers are also unionized? Seems to me that if told to go back to work , the unions would have something to say about it. 

Why would they have something to say about it?  Do you have any examples of this?

It looks like around 33.6% of public workers are unionized.  Probably MUCH lower than that in Utah, however. 

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

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49 minutes ago, pogi said:

Do you have any examples of this?

Well, unions exist ( supposedly ) to protect the workers. If the union thinks that a return to work endangers their members, they WILL have something to say about it. They may not be able to stop a back to work order, but they can put a lot of " rules " in place to protect members. As, no doubt , they should. 

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4 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

 

And, California beaches have been closed for long periods of time depending upon the county.  I live in San Clemente.  County lifeguards would go up and down the coast in boats demanding that surfers get out of the water.  Counties have since opened their beaches, but it took months.  In Los Angeles County, a paddleboarder was arrested. 

You can not truthfully say California beaches have been closed for long periods of time depending upon the county. A few, perhaps.   Generally all of California beaches have been open for the majority of the time during Covid.  What has been closed off and on are some parking lots.  There are 420 beaches in California.  You are ranting about the wrong thing with no proof to those assertions. One paddle boarder arrested way back in April for violating the Governor's stay at home order during the initial shut down period does not mean that California beaches have been closed down for long periods during Covid.  I know your assertions are wrong.  I have been going to many beaches all summer long in Northern California.  None of them have been closed for the summer.

CFR just how many of those beaches have been closed during Covid.   The vast majority have been open.  Show us some proof for what you are trying to suggest.  

 

 

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8 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Why should I ask for help?

The rant against the Park Ranger Stan is just an analogue.   County and State parks have been closed in California by bureaucrats at the direction of county and state political employees.  It is too easy for the bureaucrats and employees to go along with this.  They are all getting paid.  I've not heard of any layoffs in California.

You have to understand that my legal practice involves gaining access to permit granters and bureaucrats for clients.  No can do as a general matter.  Things are opening up but I question why this was done in the first place.  Government should be there to serve the public, not retreat and hide.

And, California beaches have been closed for long periods of time depending upon the county.  I live in San Clemente.  County lifeguards would go up and down the coast in boats demanding that surfers get out of the water.  Counties have since opened their beaches, but it took months.  In Los Angeles County, a paddleboarder was arrested. 

Retreat and hide is not how I would characterize trying to avoid a dangerous disease. You are asking them to increase their risk to their life so you can get permits for your clients? Doesn't that seem unreasonable to you?

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20 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Government should be there to serve the public, not retreat and hide.

Actually, they did what they did for the sole purpose of serving the public.  You can retreat and hide from that fact all you want, you may disagree with the measures but it was done from a public health perspective.  It was not done with the purpose and intent of them getting paid to do nothing.  That is slanderous.   

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3 hours ago, pogi said:

Actually, they did what they did for the sole purpose of serving the public.  You can retreat and hide from that fact all you want, you may disagree with the measures but it was done from a public health perspective.  It was not done with the purpose and intent of them getting paid to do nothing.  That is slanderous.   

I have not retreated or hidden.  I make my points in my own name and identify problems with the government's response.  

Although things are returning slowly to normal today, essential government workers (other than first responders) got paid to do nothing. Building inspectors, plan inspectors, insurance regulators, pension overseers, gas and oil regulators, park rangers, life guards, recreational supervisors, and the like.  They went home.  They did nothing.  

In the private industry, the response to the virus varied.  Some were sent home to do nothing.  These were very rare.   Many were laid off.   Many lost their jobs.  Many worked from home when they could.  See the difference?

The government's response to the virus has exposed the problems with a large government bureaucracy.  When a crisis hits, the first responders work and the rest hide. 

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15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Retreat and hide is not how I would characterize trying to avoid a dangerous disease. You are asking them to increase their risk to their life so you can get permits for your clients? Doesn't that seem unreasonable to you?

It is interesting how people see a difference between employers who are not feeding at the government trough and those who do.  

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8 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Although things are returning slowly to normal today, essential government workers (other than first responders) got paid to do nothing. Building inspectors, plan inspectors, insurance regulators, pension overseers, gas and oil regulators, park rangers, life guards, recreational supervisors, and the like.  They went home.  They did nothing.  

And over 1.5 million of them lost their jobs. 

11 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

In the private industry, the response to the virus varied.  Some were sent home to do nothing.  These were very rare.   Many were laid off.   Many lost their jobs.  Many worked from home when they could.  See the difference?

Actually, no, it was not "rare" at all.  We send people home to do nothing every day.  Most get paid for it.  MANY in the public sector lost their jobs too (a fact you fail to acknowledge).  Many government workers are working from home too.  

Temporarily government lock-downs is not proof that their primary purpose was to be lazy and get paid for it.   That is your claim.  That is what I am disagreeing with.  I am not trying to argue that the public sector and private sector are the exact same.  That is a red herring. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I don't think this is true, but I am willing to be educated. 

 

I already posted this, but I will do it again.

Quote

The overall job losses among public workers have reached more than 1.5 million since March, according to seasonally adjusted federal jobs data released Friday. The number of government employees is now the lowest it's been since 2001, and most of the cuts are at the local level.

https://fortune.com/2020/06/06/government-job-loss-public-workers-unemployment/

 

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36 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Good riddance.  

I truly hope you are not referring to the 1.5 million public workers (many of whom have families to feed and mortgages to pay) and are out of a job in a terrible job market - the same people you accused of shutting down the economy so they can be lazy - the same ones that you said should be there to serve the public and you were mad they they were not there anymore.   Tell me it isn't so. 

 

Edited by pogi
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4 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

I have not retreated or hidden.  I make my points in my own name and identify problems with the government's response.  

Although things are returning slowly to normal today, essential government workers (other than first responders) got paid to do nothing. Building inspectors, plan inspectors, insurance regulators, pension overseers, gas and oil regulators, park rangers, life guards, recreational supervisors, and the like.  They went home.  They did nothing.  

In the private industry, the response to the virus varied.  Some were sent home to do nothing.  These were very rare.   Many were laid off.   Many lost their jobs.  Many worked from home when they could.  See the difference?

The government's response to the virus has exposed the problems with a large government bureaucracy.  When a crisis hits, the first responders work and the rest hide. 

The rest hide? When 9/11 hit all the public workers sat around and did nothing? Hurricanes ripping through cities? World War 2?

They were telling everyone to stay home because that kind of health measure mitigates the specific crisis we are in right now. It is not a general truth.

3 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Good riddance.  

Same to your employees if you have to let them go.

Does it sound more or less cruel when re-aimed that way?

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5 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

It is interesting how people see a difference between employers who are not feeding at the government trough and those who do.  

Those people are addicted to their smug superiority of their glorious success in the free market while the filthy anti-American weirdos who cannot function anywhere else work for the government. Am I getting close?

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https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/10/young-students-in-idaho-lost-ground-in-reading-during-covid-19-disruptions

New data from the State Board of Education shows fewer Idaho children are reading at grade level than before the pandemic. Overall proficiency on the Idaho Reading Indicator was the lowest in six years.

Students in kindergarten through third grade typically take the IRI standardized test near the beginning and end of each school year. The test was called off in the spring of 2020 amid widespread school closures, so preliminary data from fall 2020 offers the first glimpse of how COVID-19 school disruptions may have impacted student reading skills.

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33 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Nah- I think that's any random weeknight in LA.   I mean where's the Eiffel Tower?  🤪

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1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

My husband is set to drive down to the south of France next weekend to pick up his parents who are moving in with us. He may have to get a special pass for the trip. 

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