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collateral damage from covid


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1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Bob Crockett has taken you to task.  If you think I should simply put my hands in my pockets and allow him to do that, okay. :huh: :unknw: 

Sigh

 

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2 hours ago, pogi said:

Actually, what you originally said (multiple times), and which I responded to, is this:

I happen to be a "government worker", so naturally, that includes me in your attack.  The vast majority of government workers are not "elected representatives" or "appointed bureaucrats", but simply average Americans with families trying to get by in a time of crisis.  When confronted with the fact that over 1.5 million public workers have actually lost their jobs due to the economic downturn from Covid, you responded:

That level of callousness to 1.5 million American jobs (mostly unelected workers or appointed bureaucrats) lost during a terrible jobs market and when families are struggling to get by is unprecedented, even for you. 

You can't butter up your moldy toast and make it seem palatable.  

Again, good riddance.  Compare 1.5 million to the untold millions who lost their jobs. 

I don't know anything about you so my comments are directed to collateral loss. 

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2 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Again, good riddance.  Compare 1.5 million to the untold millions who lost their jobs. 

I don't know anything about you so my comments are directed to collateral loss. 

Actually, I agree with Pogi.  (Don't get used to it. ;))  What's the old saying?  If your neighbor loses his job, the economy might be in a recession; if you lose your job, the economy is in a depression?  I don't know that it's very Christlike to say, even of workers one does not know and even of workers whose utility one questions, "Good riddance."  And it's easy to say that government is wasteful and inefficient: Much harder to decide where and what to cut.

Edited by Kenngo1969
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8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Actually, I agree with Pogi.  (Don't get used to it. ;))  What's the old saying?  If your neighbor loses his job, the economy might be in a recession; if you lose your job, the economy is in a depression?  I don't know that it's very Christlike to say, even of workers one does not know and even of workers whose utility one questions, "Good riddance."  And it's easy to say that government is wasteful and inefficient: Much harder to decide where and what to cut.

Hopefully government employees will acquire a sense of humor.  

One of the benefits of being a government employee is to keep one's job. 

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13 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Again, good riddance.  Compare 1.5 million to the untold millions who lost their jobs. 

And everyone of them (public and private) is a loss and should not be joked about. 

3 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Hopefully government employees will acquire a sense of humor.  

Not funny. Bad taste. 

3 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

One of the benefits of being a government employee is to keep one's job. 

Not when the economy has gone to crap.  We are no more safe than anyone else when budgets are cut.  There are about 20 million workers in the public sector and nearly 10 percent of them lost their jobs in July.  In the same month, the unemployment rate was at 10.2% for all sectors.  Doesn't seem like they are that much more protected to me. 

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On 11/3/2020 at 5:49 AM, Bob Crockett said:

Hopefully government employees will acquire a sense of humor.  

One of the benefits of being a government employee is to keep one's job. 

The same principle still applies, Brother Crockett: I'm not going to joke with my unemployed former-government-employee neighbor about losing his job, and I would hope that he would be sensitive enough, if I were an unemployed former-government employee, to reciprocate.  It's funny when he loses his job, but not funny when you lose yours?  C'mon!  Aren't you better than this ... really?  Haven't you ever provided pastoral care to someone who's lost a job?  I have to believe that, if you did, such care involved much more than simply trying to help him see the humor in the situation. 

I was employed by the government a year ago, in a job that probably, under current circumstances, would be considered essential: It was all the other crap that went with it that I found I couldn't take.  Arguably, I'm one of those lazy $$%&*$$!! who, now, has gone back to sucking on the government teat. 

Clumsily and inartfully (alas, if only I'd had someone of your legal acumen to represent me, and I mean that sincerely!), proceeding pro se, I sued the person who is most responsible for my departure ... fortunately for me, she thinks the best way to handle an opponent's attempt to embroil her in legal proceedings is to ignore that attempt (although, for reasons that I still don't understand, while I was counting down the days for her to answer my Complaint, hoping she would not do so and intending to move for default judgment in that event ... she did answer my Complaint). 

Feeling starved for attention, on the one hand, and yet feeling "harassed" when someone one lies about repeatedly finally sues the liar, on the other, must be an interesting combination.  Also, she's judgment proof: in her Answer, in addition to pleading irrelevant matters and hearsay matters, she pleaded poverty.  Why is it that those most prone to finding themselves embroiled in legal proceedings also are most likely to be judgment proof?  Ah, well: one of life's great mysteries, alas!

Fortunately for me, she ignored my Request for Admissions, and, hopefully, she'll do the same when it comes to my Motion for Summary Judgment.  Time will tell!  Counting down the days again! :rolleyes:   "Ken, if you knew she was judgment proof before you filed suit, why did you even bother?"  I know, I know.  I can only reply by using a refrain that people use so often that it nearly has become meaningless, but "It's the principle of the thing."

Quote

 

Who steals my purse steals trash . . .

But he that filches from me my good name

Robs me of that which not enriches him

And makes me poor indeed.

—Shakespeare, Othello, Act III, Scene iii, ellipses added

 

 

Edited by Kenngo1969
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29 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Time to not take oneself too seriously.  

Time to not mock and defame innocent American workers who lost their jobs. 

Edited by pogi
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10 minutes ago, pogi said:

Time to not mock and defame innocent American workers who lost their jobs. 

I still wonder why the California state and county governments shut down so that there was absolutely no access for weeks and months.  

It seems to me that when a major crisis hits, like a pandemic, government ought to keep their offices open to provide essential (less than first-responding) services.  Didn't happen in California.  I'm not the only one to complain.  What is the justification for this?  I'm sorry; my respect for people who have government jobs has plummeted to an all time low.  

But this isn't all that important for this forum, and I don't want to get government workers' noses out of joint.  I may need them in the future. 

Edited by Bob Crockett
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8 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I still wonder why the California state and county governments shut down so that there was absolutely no access for weeks and months.  

It seems to me that when a major crisis hits, like a pandemic, government ought to keep their offices open to provide essential (less than first-responding) services.  Didn't happen in California.  I'm not the only one to complain.  

You can wonder all you want.  But the second you start mocking and defaming innocent people without evidence, and state it as fact, then you run into trouble.

Yes, essential services should remain open.  And I guarantee that they were. Name one essential service that was closed.  Beaches and parks...sorry, not essential. 

If California is anything like Utah, they moved many non-essential public workers to the Covid response and limited or temporarily closed their departments.  Or, if there was a state or county wide lock-down, then government workers are not immune from lock-down.  They are just as capable as spreading the disease in the community as anyone else.

They were NOT shut down so they can get paid to do nothing. 

 

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8 minutes ago, pogi said:

You can wonder all you want.  But the second you start mocking and defaming innocent people without evidence, and state it as fact, then you run into trouble.

Yes, essential services should remain open.  And I guarantee that they were. Name one essential service that was closed.  Beaches and parks...sorry, not essential. 

If California is anything like Utah, they moved many non-essential public workers to the Covid response and limited or temporarily closed their departments.  Or, if there was a state or county wide lock-down, then government workers are not immune from lock-down.  They are just as capable as spreading the disease in the community as anyone else.

They were NOT shut down so they can get paid to do nothing. 

 

I have provided you first-hand evidence of government worker failure in California.  That is evidence.  Schools have all been shutdown and presently are open only for on-line attendance.  Kids in poverty do not do well with that kind of instruction. 

And who is to say what is essential and what is not?  The government?  We pay taxes.  We ought to have services. 

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12 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I have provided you first-hand evidence of government worker failure in California.  That is evidence.  Schools have all been shutdown and presently are open only for on-line attendance.  Kids in poverty do not do well with that kind of instruction. 

And who is to say what is essential and what is not?  The government?  We pay taxes.  We ought to have services. 

We are in a pandemic.  Quit whining about slow service at the beach!

Edited by pogi
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I sincerely hope we take a hard look at what decisions were made during this and the outcomes they caused so we do not repeat the mistakes that were made.  I suspect politics played too big of a role in this.  I also hope good scientists and medical professionals get together and review the pandemic and come up with a definitive true narrative on Sars-coV-2.  I wonder how many people have died as a result of the lockdowns and other measures?  If we over-reacted to this, then can we say that some of the excess deaths are due to the misguided, panic driven policies by governments around the world? 

There is too much contrary opinion regarding cloth masks.  Do they really work?  This research group out of Switzerland says no evidence to support the effectiveness of cloth masks: https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/  The CDC and WHO have vacillated: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-cdc-just-changed-this-big-face-mask-rule-for-everyone/ar-BB15ZSQY; https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200608/who-changes-stance-says-public-should-wear-masks 

Are the tests effective for Sars-coV-2? This article shows that the PCR test is meaningless:  https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid19-pcr-tests-scientifically-meaningless/5717253

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18 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said:

 I also hope good scientists and medical professionals get together and review the pandemic and come up with a definitive true narrative on Sars-coV-2. 

Not if someone wins the election.  He is already talking about firing Fauci if he wins.  He has burned the CDC to the ground.  There is talk that if he wins, there will be mass exodus from the CDC because the scientists and experts aren't being allowed to do their jobs because of political pressure from the boss man.  He is anti-science that conflicts with his political goals.  Instead, these are the scientists and medical professionals that are going to be running things:

Stella Immanuel and Scott Atlas.  No thanks!

Edited by pogi
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16 minutes ago, pogi said:

We are in a pandemic.  Quit whining about slow service at the beach!

This covid thing is way overdone and tortuously and needlessly prolonged.  We now know the death rate is less than 0.2%.  It is nothing more than a severe outbreak.  Testing statistics are not reliable and do not account for lack of symptoms.  But still many segments are demanding a return to draconian lockdowns.  It is likely we will see the pressures greatly diminish once the vote count provides a clear winner (hopefully).

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5 minutes ago, pogi said:

Not if someone wins the election.  He is already talking about firing Fauci if he wins.  He has burned the CDC to the ground.  There is talk that if he wins, there will be mass exodus from the CDC because the scientists and experts aren't being allowed to do their jobs because of political pressure from the boss man.  He is anti-science that conflicts with his political goals.  Instead, these are the scientists and medical professionals that are going to be running things:

Stella Immanuel and Scott Atlas.  No thanks!

Good riddance to those government workers at the CDC.  Good riddance!!!

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23 minutes ago, longview said:

This covid thing is way overdone and tortuously and needlessly prolonged.  We now know the death rate is less than 0.2%.  It is nothing more than a severe outbreak.  Testing statistics are not reliable and do not account for lack of symptoms.  But still many segments are demanding a return to draconian lockdowns.  It is likely we will see the pressures greatly diminish once the vote count provides a clear winner (hopefully).

CFR on 0.2 percent%   Are you talking about CFR (case fatality rate) or IFR (infection fatality rate)?  The CFR is over 2% the IFR is estimated to be over 1%   What do you mean that testing statistics "do not account for a lack of symptoms"?  Yes they do.  

Covid is the worst it has ever been in the US, hospitals are being overrun.  Winter is on it's way.  Holliday's.  Flu.  Wake up people.  We are in the worst position that we ever have been with this pandemic. Total estimated deaths are near half a million in the US alone in less than 1 year (when you account for excess deaths). 

Edited by pogi
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14 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Good riddance to those government workers at the CDC.  Good riddance!!!

And say hello to the Stella Immanuel's and Scott Atlas's of the scientific/medical community!

Edited by pogi
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9 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Good riddance to those government workers at the CDC.  Good riddance!!!

No thanks. I sure hope the near future will be about rebuilding after the damage done to legitimate government agencies.

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21 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said:

I wonder how many people have died as a result of the lockdowns and other measures?  If we over-reacted to this, then can we say that some of the excess deaths are due to the misguided, panic driven policies by governments around the world? 

There is evidence of potentially 700 deaths due to political rallies for one candidate. Be sure in counting potential deaths caused by lockdowns, you compare it to the deaths that happened by ignoring basic safety recommendations, etc.

I do think in areas of higher poverty, survival level living lockdowns can be highly dangerous.
 

Governments may be able to mitigate some of the damage...in our local schools meals continued to be provided to kids in need, for example. 

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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

There is evidence of potentially 700 deaths due to political rallies for one candidate. Be sure in counting potential deaths caused by lockdowns, you compare it to the deaths that happened by ignoring basic safety recommendations, etc.

I do think in areas of higher poverty, survival level living lockdowns can be highly dangerous.
 

Governments may be able to mitigate some of the damage...in our local schools meals continued to be provided to kids in need, for example. 

The California lockdown is class warfare.  The privileged can navigate the school closures; the poor cannot.  A very essential government service -- out the window.  Yet, the teachers are still paid.

And what about access to essential health care that is not Covid related?   For weeks, could not see a dentist or a cardiologist or an oncologist.   The rich could pull it off; the poor cannot.

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22 minutes ago, pogi said:

CFR on 0.2 percent%   Are you talking about CFR (case fatality rate) or IFR (infection fatality rate)?

Neither.  Based on whole population.

22 minutes ago, pogi said:

We are in the worst position that we ever have been with this pandemic. Total estimated deaths are near half a million in the US alone in less than 1 year (when you account for excess deaths). 

I do not believe nor trust the government on reporting methods.  The government should NOT be providing financial incentives to hospitals and other medical clinics for reporting any covid statistics.  I am thoroughly convinced that too many deaths are attributed to covid.

Edited by longview
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14 minutes ago, longview said:

Neither.  Based on whole population.

???  How do you calculate death rate based on the "whole population", when the vast majority have not been infected? 

14 minutes ago, longview said:

I do not believe nor trust the government on reporting methods.  The government should NOT be providing financial incentives to hospitals and other medical clinics for reporting any covid statistics.  I am thoroughly convinced that too many deaths are attibuted to covid.

I am so tired of this baloney.  The doctors and coroners who sign the death certificates don't get a single red penny for stating it was due to Covid.  They have no incentive to commit medical fraud.  None.  

You never answered what you mean when you said that testing stats don't account for lack of symptoms.  Defend your position.  

  

 

Edited by pogi
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