Mitt Romney Explains Why He Voted to Convict

[Scott Lloyd]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/indepth/2020/2/5/21123629/mitt-romney-impeachment-vote-convict-cspan-president-donald-trump-utah-senator-abuse-of-power
 

In explaining himself, I’m afraid Mitt is coming perilously close to implying divine approbation for his vote.. And while that might not be his intent, I do believe that some will be misled thereby. He does some  apparent question begging when he invokes the hymn title “Do What Is Right” — as though it is a given that voting to convict Trump is doing what is right. 
 

And it’s a conclusion that is fraught with problems. If we conclude that Romney was divinely inspired, what are we to make of the action by Mike Lee, the senior senator in the Utah delegation (son of former BYU President Rex Lee), who is also a good and decent man and a faithful Latter-day Saint who, I’ve no doubt, also approaches his duties earnestly and solicits guidance from the Almighty? (Sen. Lee voted with the rest of the Republican caucus to acquit the president on both of the articles of impeachment.)

Edited February 5, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Ahab]

Pure politics.  Different strokes for different kinds of folks. I have no problem with him voting based on his conscience or of anyone else voting what they get from their conscience while knowing reasonable minds can still disagree even when listening to their conscience.

[aussieguy55]

Would Lee and Romney who both prayed for guidance in their decision and felt the response to do what they did  is God the author of confusion. ?

Dr. Robert Jeffress is Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas  who considers Mormons as a cult will be on Fox for sure

Edited February 5, 2020 by aussieguy55
extra information

[stemelbow]

If he's saying God told him to vote that way,  he's perilously close to convincing others there really is a God. But on the other hand Mike Lee's example on mommy confuses the issue--a good and gracious God can't possibly support a disastrous and foolish unbeliever like Trump.  

Of course there are more than just mormons who said prayers.  Either this praying thing is really just personal bias masquerading as a higher power, the higher could care less about this stuff,  or he's as confused as Scott and co.  

[bsjkki]

What I find really disheartening is the amount of anti-mormon comments this decision brings. It's really sad. No one trashes the Catholics when Pelosi rips up the State of the Union Speech.  

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

What I find really disheartening is the amount of anti-mormon comments this decision brings. It's really sad. No one trashes the Catholics when Pelosi rips up the State of the Union Speech.  

Persecution. Get used to it.  It helps to build character.  And it's part of what makes us Mormons, er, uh, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[bluebell]

32 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/indepth/2020/2/5/21123629/mitt-romney-impeachment-vote-convict-cspan-president-donald-trump-utah-senator-abuse-of-power
 

In explaining himself, I’m afraid Mitt is coming perilously close to implying divine approbation for his vote.. And while that might not be his intent, I do believe that some will be misled thereby. He does some  apparent question begging when he invokes the hymn title “Do What Is Right” — as though it is a given that voting to convict Trump is doing what is right. 
 

And it’s a conclusion that is fraught with problems. If we conclude that Romney was divinely inspired, what are we to make of the action by Mike Lee, the senior senator in the Utah delegation (son of former BYU President Rex Lee), who is also a good and decent man and a faithful Latter-day Saint who, I’ve no doubt, also approaches his duties earnestly and solicits guidance from the Almighty? (Sen. Lee voted with the rest of the Republican caucus to acquit the president on both of the articles of impeachment.)

I see the use of the hymn as him saying that he was doing what he believed to be right, not that God had told him it was right.

[sunstoned]

27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/indepth/2020/2/5/21123629/mitt-romney-impeachment-vote-convict-cspan-president-donald-trump-utah-senator-abuse-of-power
 

In explaining himself, I’m afraid Mitt is coming perilously close to implying divine approbation for his vote.. And while that might not be his intent, I do believe that some will be misled thereby. He does some  apparent question begging when he invokes the hymn title “Do What Is Right” — as though it is a given that voting to convict Trump is doing what is right. 
 

And it’s a conclusion that is fraught with problems. If we conclude that Romney was divinely inspired, what are we to make of the action by Mike Lee, the senior senator in the Utah delegation (son of former BYU President Rex Lee), who is also a good and decent man and a faithful Latter-day Saint who, I’ve no doubt, also approaches his duties earnestly and solicits guidance from the Almighty? (Sen. Lee voted with the rest of the Republican caucus to acquit the president on both of the articles of impeachment.)

It is clear that Mitt Romney takes is religion and beliefs seriously and does not compromise.  The ends does not justify the means.  It doesn't matter if the economy is good, or that someones middle class life is doing okay, or that you think coal is the next great energy resource.  He had the courage to (as the song says) do what is right. And he will let the consequences follow.  He is one Mormon who has the guts to stand up for his beliefs. My opinion of him has gone way up. 

[strappinglad]

On the second article the vote was 47 guilty and 53 not guilty. If there are 51 Reps and 49 Dems who switched sides? 

I do remember Mitt got politically slapped by DJ a few times. Of course that would never influence his thinking. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by strappinglad

[Analytics]

27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/indepth/2020/2/5/21123629/mitt-romney-impeachment-vote-convict-cspan-president-donald-trump-utah-senator-abuse-of-power
 

In explaining himself, I’m afraid Mitt is coming perilously close to implying divine approbation for his vote.. And while that might not be his intent, I do believe that some will be misled thereby. He does some  apparent question begging when he invokes the hymn title “Do What Is Right” — as though it is a given that voting to convict Trump is doing what is right. 
 

And it’s a conclusion that is fraught with problems. If we conclude that Romney was divinely inspired, what are we to make of the action by Mike Lee, the senior senator in the Utah delegation (son of former BYU President Rex Lee), who is also a good and decent man and a faithful Latter-day Saint who, I’ve no doubt, also approaches his duties earnestly and solicits guidance from the Almighty? (Sen. Lee voted with the rest of the Republican caucus to acquit the president on both of the articles of impeachment.)

For what it's worth, what would be infinitely more disturbing is if the LDS caucus always voted in unison.

If a politician of any religious persuasion earnestly endeavors to understand all sides of the issues, do what is right, and live a life of integrity, he has my respect. 

I disagree with some of Romney's political positions, but I have immense respect for him as a statesman. There aren't very many currently serving Republicans I can say that about. 

[Dan McClellan]

27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

He does some  apparent question begging when he invokes the hymn title “Do What Is Right” — as though it is a given that voting to convict Trump is doing what is right.

Voting to convict Trump is very clearly doing what is right. The fact that people have to tie themselves into rhetorical knots, deny indisputable facts, and just straight up lie in order to rationalize not convicting him demonstrates that clearly enough. I would hope that we are better than such profoundly naive tribalism.

[phaedrus ut]

I believe Romney when he says he voted his conscience. I don't agree with him on everything but having him as my Governor in Massachusetts and now as my Senator in Utah he has always given me the impression of having a good ethical compass.  I sincerely believe history will be kind to him as a voice of reason. 

Phaedrus 

[Danzo]

A republican standing up to republicans is refreshing.

Its much harder to stand up to your friends than to stand up to your enemies.

What Romney did required guts.  

[Michael Sudworth]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

... I do believe that some will be misled thereby ...

Why do you talk like this? It sounds fake and pretentious. Really impacts the ability to take you seriously. Which is unfortunate because you do make a good point on occasion.

[Damien the Leper]

29 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

Voting to convict Trump is very clearly doing what is right. The fact that people have to tie themselves into rhetorical knots, deny indisputable facts, and just straight up lie in order to rationalize not convicting him demonstrates that clearly enough. I would hope that we are better than such profoundly naive tribalism.

BOOM!!!

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/indepth/2020/2/5/21123629/mitt-romney-impeachment-vote-convict-cspan-president-donald-trump-utah-senator-abuse-of-power
 

In explaining himself, I’m afraid Mitt is coming perilously close to implying divine approbation for his vote.. And while that might not be his intent, I do believe that some will be misled thereby. He does some  apparent question begging when he invokes the hymn title “Do What Is Right” — as though it is a given that voting to convict Trump is doing what is right. 
 

And it’s a conclusion that is fraught with problems. If we conclude that Romney was divinely inspired, what are we to make of the action by Mike Lee, the senior senator in the Utah delegation (son of former BYU President Rex Lee), who is also a good and decent man and a faithful Latter-day Saint who, I’ve no doubt, also approaches his duties earnestly and solicits guidance from the Almighty? (Sen. Lee voted with the rest of the Republican caucus to acquit the president on both of the articles of impeachment.)

His duty before God was to judge impartially.  He followed his conscience in judging impartially instead of following party.  How is that “perilously close to implying divine approbation”?

Following your conscience to do your duty is doing what is right and letting the consequence follow.  It is not implying that Mike Lee did not do what is right in following his conscience in doing his duty to judge impartially.

Edited February 6, 2020 by pogi

[Damien the Leper]

Good video.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Valentinus

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, sunstoned said:

It is clear that Mitt Romney takes is religion and beliefs seriously and does not compromise.  The ends does not justify the means.  It doesn't matter if the economy is good, or that someones middle class life is doing okay, or that you think coal is the next great energy resource.  He had the courage to (as the song says) do what is right. And he will let the consequences follow.  He is one Mormon who has the guts to stand up for his beliefs. My opinion of him has gone way up. 

Mine too!

[provoman]

59 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

Voting to convict Trump is very clearly doing what is right. The fact that people have to tie themselves into rhetorical knots, deny indisputable facts, and just straight up lie in order to rationalize not convicting him demonstrates that clearly enough. I would hope that we are better than such profoundly naive tribalism.

Clearly there isn't clear what is right in the situation; but some on both side of the issue will state their position is the only right position.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/indepth/2020/2/5/21123629/mitt-romney-impeachment-vote-convict-cspan-president-donald-trump-utah-senator-abuse-of-power

In explaining himself, I’m afraid Mitt is coming perilously close to implying divine approbation for his vote.. And while that might not be his intent, I do believe that some will be misled thereby. He does some  apparent question begging when he invokes the hymn title “Do What Is Right” — as though it is a given that voting to convict Trump is doing what is right. 

And it’s a conclusion that is fraught with problems. If we conclude that Romney was divinely inspired, what are we to make of the action by Mike Lee, the senior senator in the Utah delegation (son of former BYU President Rex Lee), who is also a good and decent man and a faithful Latter-day Saint who, I’ve no doubt, also approaches his duties earnestly and solicits guidance from the Almighty? (Sen. Lee voted with the rest of the Republican caucus to acquit the president on both of the articles of impeachment.)

He is quoted as saying: “But I don’t see how in good conscience I can reach a conclusion and not be true to what my heart and mind tells me is true.” I'm sure Mike Lee and most people can relate to that without appealing to God. If someone is going to be spiritually (or otherwise) misled by what they understand a politician to be saying, well...

Edited February 6, 2020 by CV75

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, aussieguy55 said:

Would Lee and Romney who both prayed for guidance in their decision and felt the response to do what they did  is God the author of confusion. ?

Dr. Robert Jeffress is Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas  who considers Mormons as a cult will be on Fox for sure

Yup.  Everyone will now get on board with their own take on what is "right," what is legal or legit, and whether one should always let his conscience be his guide.  In the midst of the hour of decision, everyone conveniently forgets that most people react to partisan issues with knee-jerk responses.  They also conveniently forget that evil is banal.  People of all persuasions will go along with nearly anything which is consonant with the madness of crowds, and they will justify it in any way they can.

Many of us tend to take passionate sides, even if it is only a question of which sports team is the best, and which player is most admirable -- and therefore blessed by God.

Recall the scene in which King David was confronted by the Prophet Nathan:  Nathan told the king a story of theft by a rich man of a lamb from a poor man.  David was enraged and vindictive, until Nathan declared "Thou art the man!"  For David had taken a man's wife in adultery, and then had the man murdered to cover his tracks.  David had judged himself, but at least he realized his sin.  He came to understand that God's punishment would fit the crime, and he humbled himself.  How often, instead, we make lame excuses, pretending and posturing as though we are above all that.  And, if a man does the right thing, we condemn him.

[Rajah Manchou]

8 minutes ago, provoman said:

Clearly there isn't clear what is right in the situation; but some on both side of the issue will state their position is the only right position.

If Trump was a democrat, certainly all republicans would know his actions were horrific, undemocratic and impeachable. And all the democrats would do nothing.

Let's stop pretending we even consider what is clearly "right" when it comes to decisions like this.

[Robert F. Smith]

5 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

If Trump was a democrat, certainly all republicans would know his actions were horrific, undemocratic and impeachable. And all the democrats would do nothing.

Let's stop pretending we even consider what is clearly "right" when it comes to decisions like this.

Come on, Rajah.  We need our masks:

"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts."  Will Shakespeare.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I see the use of the hymn as him saying that he was doing what he believed to be right, not that God had told him it was right.

I hope that’s what he means. Again, I’m afraid that won’t come across to some. 

[Scott Lloyd]

52 minutes ago, pogi said:

His duty before God was to judge impartially.  He followed his conscience in judging impartially instead of following party.  How is that “perilously close to implying divine approbation”?

Following your conscience to do your duty is doing what is right and letting the consequence follow.  It is not implying that Mike Lee did not do what is right in following his conscience in doing his duty to judge impartially.

I’m afraid some will understand it to mean convicting Trump, not voting, his conscience, is “doing what’s right.”