mfbukowski Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bluebell said: I believe that we (both you and I) can be privy to knowledge beyond our senses (I believe this partly because I have personally experienced such). We do not have the ability on our own but with the Spirit and God’s blessings and mercy, definitely. And that’s why absolute truth is not irrelevant. 😊 YOU experienced it! You know it's true because you experienced it, and yes it's therefore absolute! I feel exactly the same. That is THE point! But others have not experienced it! So what do you think is absolute is different than what they think.!! So now are you just going to go back and forth with them saying I'm right or you're right? Will that convert them? Edited April 7, 2019 by mfbukowski 1
bluebell Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 Just now, mfbukowski said: YOU experienced it! You know it's true because you experienced it, and yes it's therefore absolute! That is THE point! But others have not experienced it! So what do you think is absolute is different than what they think.!! So now are you just going to go back and forth with them saying I'm right or you're right? Will that convert them? I honestly have no idea what you are saying mfb, but it’s probably time for us to agree to disagree too. 😊
SeekingUnderstanding Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I’ve never bought in to the notion that whatever “moves have been made by the Church toward women” are attributable to Kelly’s group and their bullying pressure tactics. More likely that society’s move in general towards an intolerance of gender discrimination caused both the churches changes and the Kate Kelly phenomenon. 2
Popular Post The Nehor Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Posted April 7, 2019 Good for President Nelson to cut down on the verbal outbursts during temple announcements by telling them not to. 7
provoman Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: Good for President Nelson to cut down on the verbal outbursts during temple announcements by telling them not to. I was glad he said that.
MustardSeed Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: Good for President Nelson to cut down on the verbal outbursts during temple announcements by telling them not to. I had anxiety all day about that lol. I’m a lightweight
provoman Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 19 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Probably too late to answer this, but the broadcast was carried live over BYU TV Channel 11 at 6 pm. I believe it also available in on-demand streaming on the Church’s website. I’ll check now, and if I’m wrong will come back and correct it. Thank You, I realized at 725pm last night while at a Stake building that I could have streamed it at home.
SouthernMo Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Good for President Nelson to cut down on the verbal outbursts during temple announcements by telling them not to. Why do you think it was bad to express excitement about those announcements?
bluebell Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 It felt like those outbursts were getting more and more each time. 2
MustardSeed Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, SouthernMo said: Why do you think it was bad to express excitement about those announcements? We have always exercised reverence in our sacred meetings, which precludes shouting from the congregation. We don’t clap for outstanding musicians and we don’t shout approval for announcements. At an informal meeting, go for it.
The Nehor Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Why do you think it was bad to express excitement about those announcements? It is not but verbal outbursts are inappropriate and the prophet agrees with me. Sweet vindication! Edited April 7, 2019 by The Nehor
JAHS Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Why do you think it was bad to express excitement about those announcements? 4 minutes ago, bluebell said: It felt like those outbursts were getting more and more each time. Have you seen Utah Jazz fans at a game? Best to nip it in the bud before it gets louder. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Why do you think it was bad to express excitement about those announcements? 2 minutes ago, bluebell said: It felt like those outbursts were getting more and more each time. It isn't "bad," any more than typical childish outbursts are "bad." It is just sad, however, that Pres Nelson had to admonish the Saints to be reverent and restrained. They should already know how to properly behave in that setting. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 Seventy Pablo Vilar's day with his missionary brother touched my heart deeply. That is what the Gospel is all about, not vapid, abstruse, and abstract theorizing about theology. 4
provoman Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Why do you think it was bad to express excitement about those announcements? Decorum; time and place Edited April 7, 2019 by provoman 3
bluebell Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: It isn't "bad," any more than typical childish outbursts are "bad." It is just sad, however, that Pres Nelson had to admonish the Saints to be reverent and restrained. They should already know how to properly behave in that setting. I feel like a spontaneous outburst of joy at unexpected news is different than people planning on whooping it up should something exciting happen. After the last conference, it felt more like planned “whooping and “hollering” was going to be the norm. I’m glad they shut it down early. 2
member10_1 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 36 minutes ago, bluebell said: I believe that we (both you and I) can be privy to knowledge beyond our senses (I believe this partly because I have personally experienced such). We do not have the ability on our own but with the Spirit and God’s blessings and mercy, definitely. And that’s why absolute truth is not irrelevant. 😊 Help me understand the point at which a belief ceases to be only an interpretation of sensory experience and becomes knowledge of the absolute. Let’s say I’m trying to know if Joseph Smith really translated an ancient record by the power of God in order to publish the Book of Mormon. 1. I read it 2. I abide by its precepts 3. I pray about it. 4. I feel really good when reading and praying about it 5. I see good results from living its precepts. Without engaging in circular reasoning, describe the point at which I can know that my perceptions of and beliefs about the Book of Mormon correspond to what is beyond my perception.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Good for President Nelson to cut down on the verbal outbursts during temple announcements by telling them not to. 46 minutes ago, provoman said: I was glad he said that. In posts on this board, I expressed annoyance at the outbursts when they happened before. Feels so nice to be vindicated. Edited April 7, 2019 by Scott Lloyd 4
Popular Post strappinglad Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Posted April 7, 2019 " Two swallows do not a summer make " , and as Duncan will tell you, an announcement does not a building make. Save the shouting for that specific time and place during a dedication. 😶 5
Scott Lloyd Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: I care. But decorum is awesome too 😎 OK. I’ll delete the last paragraph of my post. 1
Calm Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Duncan said: Pres. Oaks talking about how harder it is to repent in the next life, is that for those who had a chance here to accept the Gospel but didn't? Because, 99% of humankind haven't been around to hear and accept the true Gospel and so are in the next life hopefully trying to repent-it's like showing up for the test of your life and for your life but you didn't even know their was a test and 99% of people doing it I haven't watched the talk yet...weird weekend, so I may be missing your point, but a thought hit me and I want to express it now before I forget it. My point of view is it is less the act we need to repent of and more the reasons we commit the act (our desires and values). Changing our commitment to those desires and values may be what is harder in the next life (perhaps because we can't experiment with different acts as a spirit as we could with physical bodies and thus experience the difference results, thus being able to impact our reasoning that way...how does one learn or be persuaded a Fuji apple tastes better than a Gala if they don't have eating and tasting as part of process of persuasion or that there are benefits to honoring one's body and controlling our appetites when we can't use our body to experience those benefits on a very intimate level and instead may only be able to learn secondhand through watching others who do....either through reliving memories and seeing others' experiences that way or somehow being able to watch those still living or something else?). However, many who were not exposed to the Gospel in sufficient detail to understand it could still have plenty of reasons, desires, and values in their heart and minds to accept it and there are likely many things in their past lives that make it clearer the Gospel achieves the godly desires they have once they see it in Gospel context when shown the Gospel exists and what it means. In essence when the reason of behaviour is a lack of knowledge and not a choice to act against knowledge that one knows, it may be even easier to receive and understand that knowledge if we lack the physical distractions or obstacles that impeded processing of knowledge. So repentance may be harder because we need to learn to act against old choices, to change our desires, but accepting the Gospel itself and fitting it into our lives may not be the least hampered by not knowing of it in our mortal lives because the 'soil' is prepared. Thus I believe many who put love and service of their fellowmen first in their lives in the best way they knew how or lived other gospel principles to the fullest extent their culture or individual limitations allowed them to...hearing the gospel may feel like coming home and wrapping up in one's favorite robe or blanket and feeling the cares of the world/past life melt away. They still need to repent of the actions that lessened them and their connection with the Spirit, but that connection may have been strong even without a knowledge of the Gospel so there is no sense to me of them having been unfairly handicapped by lack of knowledge. And if they were acting on those godly feelings of love without knowledge of the Gospel, they are likely much better off than those who had the Gospel, but for whatever reason chose not to act on charitable impulses. For the latter, the ground is still rocky. If all creation truly witnesses of God, then there are going to be ways to open ourselves to God even when we don't understand that is what we are doing. Being taught the Gospel allows that seeking a connection to become a more conscious, focused effort for those who desire it and thus learning the Gospel in mortality is a true blessing, but if it is our habits of our desires even more than our habits of behaviour that affect us in the next life, then I don't see not being exposed to the Gospel as an issue. Those who desire goodness and God may not have known there would be a test, but they are prepared for it nonetheless (flashback to Karate Kid polishing cars for some reason...I didn't even like the movie, lol). 3
Duncan Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, strappinglad said: " Two swallows do not a summer make " , and as Duncan will tell you, an announcement does not a building make. Save the shouting for that specific time and place during a dedication. 😶 the framing is kind of up now! 8, that's right 8 years after it was announced!!!!!!!!!! the Temple in the Congo was announced and built after ours was, how is the infrastructure better there than here? I am dumbstruck!
Calm Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, strappinglad said: Save the shouting for that specific time and place during a dedication. 😶 In fact, sometimes I think it would be nice to get that level of unrestrained joy in those moments. I think we can too often feel too uptight to let loose our joy even when appropriate because it is mostly not appropriate in our meetings and becomes disruptive. Edited April 7, 2019 by Calm 1
ALarson Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Duncan said: the framing is kind of up now! 8, that's right 8 years after it was announced!!!!!!!!!! the Temple in the Congo was announced and built after ours was, how is the infrastructure better there than here? I am dumbstruck! Hey, it's a process! I think (if I'm counting correctly) there are now 35 temples that have been announced with no ground breaking done yet. Just be grateful yours wasn't one of the ones that was suspended (rare, but it's happened). Edited April 7, 2019 by ALarson 1
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