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Avatar4321

By Avatar4321
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Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Sevenbak said:

I have a huge problem with the Kate Kelly stunt and the crowd she said she represented.  The news footage you saw was likely shot by me, as I was at the park with them during the "protest" for KSL.  I can tell you that the phones only came out AFTER the cameras showed up.  And even then it was very sporadic.  They were not there to watch the session on tv,  but to be on tv.   The whole event smelled fishy from the beginning and got worse as it went on.  Kate was supposedly the music director in her ward.  When she decided to lead everyone in a "hymn", with one of the most recognized and loved hymns in the church, The Spirit of God Like A Fire is Burning, she had to look up the words on her phone in order to lead it.   It wasn't the first time the media have been exploited in this fashion, but the event and subsequent events of that story still leave a bad taste in my mouth.

This is a good perspective, but I think it was fairly easy to detect the sham nature of this protest even without being a news videographer on the ground.

Afterthought: I suppose I have one thing to thank them for, however. Now in retirement and thus not having to be in the Conference Center, I was able to enjoy the priesthood session last night at home in my comfies rather than putting on a suit and going over to the stake center. And my wife and daughter joined me for at least half of it.

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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Sevenbak Mentor

Sevenbak

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is a good perspective, but I think it was fairly easy to detect the sham nature of this protest even without being a news videographer on the ground.

Afterthought: I suppose I have one thing to thank them for, however. Now in retirement and thus not having to be in the Conference Center, I was able to enjoy the priesthood session last night at home in my comfies rather than putting on a suit and going over to the stake center. And my wife and daughter joined me for at least half of it.

That is indeed a positive outcome, and I too enjoyed it from home yesterday.  Hope you're enjoying retirement Scott!  I'm glad to be out of that world as well.  The things I miss are far less than the things I don't miss.

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mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Just because the creator of the piece declares what the absolute truth is does not make it relative. 

No it just makes it her opinion, and does not make it absolute either.  ;)

Did I miss something?

And how does one verify if it is absolute truth or not?  Anyone can declare any alleged truth they like...

This is where the argument falls apart.  Now the choices become spiritual- the Moroni Promise- or scientific- objective evidence.

Different people will tell you they tried the Moroni Promise and got different answers.  Are they lying or just inferior humans to whom God will not give an answer?

And Science changes all the time through paradigm shifts etc- so is that the way to absolute truth if it always changes?

So those are the choices- either personal revelation differs for each individual- I don't see how that can be argued charitably without disparaging what someone says about themselves.  On the scientific side scientific truth is always changing.

So where is the absolute truth in either of those positions?  Is self defense always murder?  Obviously there are always shades of grey.

MY answer is that science is about what "works" and then is taken over by another theory that works "better" as a tool for predicting events and experiences.

On the other hand, my view says that someone MIGHT actually be better off in a different church until they grow into a spiritual plane ready for the Gospel, or until they are no longer captured by the "philosophies of men" and actually understand what truth is- personal revelation for God's personal answer for where he wants you TODAY- and that means if you are a drunk on skid row- hang out with the salvation army for a while, dry out, learn about Christ and THEN maybe see if the LDS church will let you in!

For that person- his "truth" would be not to join the church now- but take the preparatory steps necessary

So if we want to totally derail this thread and get into it- I am ready, but I don't think this is the time or the place.

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mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I don't doubt that many are geniune. But the fact is if my truth isn't true then it's not truth no matter how much I want it to be.

And how does one recognize truth from appearances?

All we can see are appearances and we see through a glass darkly.  Can you see truth through that dark glass?

Why are we on this world to walk by faith if you can see truth so clearly?   What is the purpose of the plan of salvation if we do not have to walk by faith?

The lack of ability to see absolute truth is built into the gospel itself and yet even some General Authorities seem to miss that point.

Again and again we are taught to seek our own testimonies- why is that if it is so easy just to see these absolute truths objectively?

Why do we need our OWN truth if it is out there being stated in conference infallibly?

And if infallible, why the policy changes on polygamy, race and the priesthood and now this gay parent issue?

Edited by mfbukowski
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cinepro Grand Master

cinepro

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In 2013. See this link:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/church-expands-options-for-viewing-priesthood-session?lang=eng

 

Quote

However, where distances permit, the Church is encouraging priesthood holders to attend the general priesthood meeting at their local chapel. The meetinghouse broadcast represents an important tradition and is an especially uplifting experience for young men who hold the Aaronic Priesthood.

I'm guessing that tradition ended sometime in April 2014.

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stemelbow Grand Master

stemelbow

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is a good perspective, but I think it was fairly easy to detect the sham nature of this protest even without being a news videographer on the ground.

Afterthought: I suppose I have one thing to thank them for, however. Now in retirement and thus not having to be in the Conference Center, I was able to enjoy the priesthood session last night at home in my comfies rather than putting on a suit and going over to the stake center. And my wife and daughter joined me for at least half of it.

I find it I interesting some are still talking about it.  And the effort to dismiss it has been embarrassing.  Each time it appears the effort to dismiss is to say the entire groups mitive was...of course with many people involved you get tons of various and complicated web of motives.  And it’s perhaps a good note to make that some still are intent on talking about it and complaining about it.  And since moves have been made by the church towards women.  So...not so easy to dismiss unless, of course, you have in your complex set of motivations there remains an axe to grind, as they say.  

Edited by stemelbow
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bluebell Grand Master

bluebell

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

No it just makes it her opinion, and does not make it absolute either.  ;)

Did I miss something?

And how does one verify if it is absolute truth or not?  Anyone can declare any alleged truth they like...

This is where the argument falls apart.  Now the choices become spiritual- the Moroni Promise- or scientific- objective evidence.

Different people will tell you they tried the Moroni Promise and got different answers.  Are they lying or just inferior humans to whom God will not give an answer?

And Science changes all the time through paradigm shifts etc- so is that the way to absolute truth if it always changes?

So those are the choices- either personal revelation differs for each individual- I don't see how that can be argued charitably without disparaging what someone says about themselves.  On the scientific side scientific truth is always changing.

So where is the absolute truth in either of those positions?  Is self defense always murder?  Obviously there are always shades of grey.

MY answer is that science is about what "works" and then is taken over by another theory that works "better" as a tool for predicting events and experiences.

On the other hand, my view says that someone MIGHT actually be better off in a different church until they grow into a spiritual plane ready for the Gospel, or until they are no longer captured by the "philosophies of men" and actually understand what truth is- personal revelation for God's personal answer for where he wants you TODAY- and that means if you are a drunk on skid row- hang out with the salvation army for a while, dry out, learn about Christ and THEN maybe see if the LDS church will let you in!

For that person- his "truth" would be not to join the church now- but take the preparatory steps necessary

So if we want to totally derail this thread and get into it- I am ready, but I don't think this is the time or the place.

I disagree.  As the creator, it is not his or her opinion. It is fact, absolute. 

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SouthernMo Mentor

SouthernMo

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I disagree.  As the creator, it is not his or her opinion. It is fact, absolute. 

Different perspective: I once created a truck when I was a kid. To me it was a truck. To others it was a cardboard box with sharpie marks all over it.

Im not sure even a creator can create an absolute.

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bluebell Grand Master

bluebell

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Different perspective: I once created a truck when I was a kid. To me it was a truck. To others it was a cardboard box with sharpie marks all over it.

Im not sure even a creator can create an absolute.

I think your talking about the “this is not a pipe” issue illustrated best by Magritte. Even as a kid I’m sure you recognized the difference between your truck and a real truck.  

That does not change the fact that your creation was a truck. No one could look at your creation and tell you “no, you did not create a truck. You created a giraffe. I see a giraffe so you created a giraffe.”

Edited by bluebell
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mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I disagree.  As the creator, it is not his or her opinion. It is fact, absolute. 

Read it again. I didn't say that

 

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The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Christofferson is taking on a divisive topic (for some). Admirable, but I wish I could ask questions about specifics.

I also was waiting for a timetable. I am with my sister and said after one line, “And it will be next week.” She giggled and rolled her eyes.

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bluebell Grand Master

bluebell

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Best talk - sister Eubanks!  No sing song voice. Strong message, calling us to repentance!  Inspiring and loving.  

Encore! 

Seriously!!  She spoke with authority. And she wasn’t all smiley. 

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