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Everything posted by Sevenbak

  1. Edwin Rushton recorded the WHP about 1900. The other references to the specific part about the constitution are too numerous and too early to be even lumped into the same category with his version and all the extraneous stuff that is in dispute. The chicken clearly came first and Rushton has egg on his face. :-)
  2. Not trying to delve into mysteries. Just trying to answer your question. It would seem the question is best answered with another... which came first, the chicken or the egg? Or in this case, WHP or Constitution/thread...
  3. Elder Hyde, from the Ensign article linked above, does not say it's a rumor, he say's that's how he recollected it. You'll have to show me where Hyde said the statement was dubious, because I can't find any such reference. Or is that your idea? "Orson Hyde recalled that the Prophet predicted that “the time would come that the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow and said he, if the constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language as nearly as I can recollect it.”
  4. If White Horse is rooted in them... There, fixed it for ya. The WHP spouts a lot more than just the constitution hanging by as thread. That isn't the part that has been rejected. The constitution hanging by a thread was preached about both before and after the WHP came to surface. Be careful not to confuse the 2...
  5. Lots. Ensign, Various Authors, June 1976 [T]he time would come when the constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the Latter-day Saints will step forth and save it. —Recorded by James Burgess Even this nation will be on the verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is on the brink of ruin this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of dest
  6. In related news, the science keeps changing, and statements made in the past have to be changed to to support the status quo. Remember that ice age horse discovered a couple years ago in Lehi Utah? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/science/horse-skeleton-utah.html Well... this week they announced that the horse had been ridden, and so naturally could only be a few hundred years old, instead of thousands of years. https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/29706/20210217/horse-skeleton-ice-age-found-utah-backyard-isnt-what-seems.htm Oh the frailties of
  7. Me too. I love how rich and deep, and how detailed the color and texture is...
  8. Have you seen all the pics? Wide ones too? There are 8 miles of these cliffs, that are full of the art panels. And while some naturally have overhangs, others don't. You can literally see the water marks, and the still clear imagery.
  9. Obviously the Behr paint reference was in jest, but pointing out how paints and finishes fade. I actually am one that tends to give the ancients a lot of credit they don't normally get from scientific circles. They knew and did a lot more than we typically attribute to them. But I have seen a ton of faded red ochre rock art (My graduate thesis was about documenting So. Utah rock art) dating to much later time periods and milder climates than these in Columbia, which are largely pristine. It needs further study. They look too good to be 12000 years old, exposed in the rainforest.
  10. If Behr came out with a 12000 year guarantee on an exterior paint, I'd be a believer. As it is, I think they do offer a 15 year Warranty. 😉
  11. Sorry, no sale here. Even with today's highly refined and fortified paints, things out in the open - houses, bridges, etc, MUST be repainted on a regular basis every 10-20 years. 12000 years out in the open in wet and extreme conditions looking clear and sharp is just improbable. I've seen red ochre paint on glyphs in the southwest, where it's dry and enclosed, and have been dated to 1000 years ago using fire hearth charcoal and lithic fragments, that have faded compared to more recent rock art.
  12. The article states that the age determination was made because those animals didn't exist here prior to accepted theories. Talk about the cart driving the (ahem) horse. What I would like to know is how does such a massive and broad collection of red ochre paint that is out in the open in a humid tropical rainforest, on exposed clif walls, with runoff etc, survive intact for 12000 years. My son served his mission in the amazon rainforest just south of there. When it rains, as it does often, it's torrential deluge! Something doesn't pass the smell test... 'Some drawings depic
  13. If I'm understanding you right, you're saying that you think Lehi left Jerusalem after it was sacked? Why do you not think it happened before Nebuchadnezzar? There were 2 invasions from him, in 597 BC and 587 BC. Lehi left around 600 BC. In fact, Jacob sees in vision the destruction of Jerusalem and its inhabitants being carried away captive, after they were in the promised land, years later. (2 Nephi 6:8) Does the references you mentioned happen during the first of 2nd siege from Babylon? If it was in the first year of the reign of Zedekiah, then Jerusalem still had a king (albei
  14. We are admonished to seek good men to be our leaders, not just good leaders... D&C 98: 9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn. 10 Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.
  15. Agreed! In addition to crossing a huge line, I think Mike Lee forgot about this passage... "Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men."
  16. So this just happened..."To my Mormon friends, my Latter-day Saint friends, think of him as Captain Moroni," Lee said at the Latter-day Saints for Trump event. Around 436,000 LDS members live in Arizona."He seeks not power, but to pull it down. He seeks not the praise of the world or the fake news, but he seeks the wellbeing and the peace of the American people," Lee said of Trump. https://www.newsweek.com/mike-lee-donal ... on-1543117
  17. Pretty much every prophet and apostle since the beginning of the restoration... starting here: “Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.” -Joseph Smith - Introduction page in the BoM
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