Rivers Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) It’s a reasonable question. What’s a good response to this one? The Salt Lake Temple has a cameo. Edited November 27, 2018 by Rivers 1
Popular Post Amulek Posted November 27, 2018 Popular Post Posted November 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, Rivers said: It’s a reasonable question. What’s a good response to this one? 42 5
The Nehor Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 Ours might cost a bit more since it is also the Kingdom of God.
ksfisher Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 33 minutes ago, Rivers said: It’s a reasonable question. What’s a good response to this one? The Salt Lake Temple has a cameo. Some thoughts - God has commanded His people to build temples. The temple is His house. Temples are not dedicated to "religion" as the video says, but to God. All is His. If we took all the money that has been spent on churches, temples, etc throughout time and divided it among the poor, again throughout time, it wouldn't really make a difference. The money spent by the Church on temples and church buildings is not the solution to world poverty. 4
Popular Post smac97 Posted November 27, 2018 Popular Post Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Rivers said: It’s a reasonable question. What’s a good response to this one? The Salt Lake Temple has a cameo. First, I think the Church works hard to keep our meetinghouses clean and comely, but also simple and utilitarian. I am glad of that, even though it means we get criticized for the "sameness" of our buildings (since the Church uses standard architectural plans over and over). Man, you just can't win with some people... Second, I believe God does, in fact, want us to build temples to Him. The instructions to do so are right there in the Old Testament (and in the Doctrine & Covenants). Third, I am reminded of John 12: Quote 3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. 4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him, 5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. 7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this. 8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always. Fourth, there is a measure of reductionism here. This fellow's reasoning is admirable, but someone can easily come along and one-up him by saying "Hey, why do we even need religious buildings at all? We shouldn't have any. Let's instead sell them and give all the money to the poor." And then someone else could come along and say "Why do you have a house? You could live in a tent. We should all sell our homes and live in tents." And then someone else could come along and say "Why do you live in a tent? You are still consuming resources. We should all kill ourselves and have our property sold and the proceeds given to the poor." And then someone else . . . well, you get the idea. Fifth, I like the fellow's general sentiment regarding simple buildings and avoiding profligate spending on buildings. But "profligate" is sort of in the eye of the beholder. Moreover, the Church has 160 temples worldwide, for a membership of 16 million or so. And many of these have "smaller" designs, and hence reflect cost savings. Thanks, -Smac Edited November 27, 2018 by smac97 6
Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted November 27, 2018 Popular Post Posted November 27, 2018 Wouldn't the world be "poorer" without beautiful architecture? Imagine Salt Lake without the temple... you'd just have that ugly office building Imagine Rome without a single Catholic church... The argument is old protestant/puritan one and it reduces the worth of something to a monetary value. The beautiful religious building in the world are worth more than just the money it took to build them. 7
Teancum Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Rivers said: It’s a reasonable question. What’s a good response to this one? The Salt Lake Temple has a cameo. Nas it spot on.
Calm Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 29 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Wouldn't the world be "poorer" without beautiful architecture? Imagine Salt Lake without the temple... you'd just have that ugly office building Imagine Rome without a single Catholic church... The argument is old protestant/puritan one and it reduces the worth of something to a monetary value. The beautiful religious building in the world are worth more than just the money it took to build them. Cathedrals are often a gift to their communities if only for their beauty, imo. That they also bring sacred space into the world...I see this as priceless, just as I do our temples. I am less familiar with other faiths’ buildings but would likely feel the same way. I am not comfortable with serfs or others being forced to build or contribute, but if it is a willing sacrifice I don’t see why it can’t be viewed as a valued choice for a community. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Rivers said: How much should religion cost? ...................It’s a reasonable question. What’s a good response to this one? The Salt Lake Temple has a cameo. My initial response to that question is "Everything." After all Jesus told the Rich Young Man to go and give all he had to the poor and then come follow him. Yet Jesus and his disciples spent an inordinate amount of time at the Temple in Jerusalem, a tremendously expensive edifice. Jesus even took a whip and chased merchants out of his Father's House. That house, like Solomon's Temple and the Tabernacle in the Desert before it, were the most expensive bldgs possible, and their accoutrements were an integral part of those buildings by specific prophecy. Like the great cathedrals designed to replace that Temple, one can justly ask "why?" Why would God want an excessive amount of money spent on buildings which could certainly be rendered more cheaply? -- the way chapels are. A more basic question is whether poverty is even treatable simply by spending more money on it. Do homeless people become homebodies only because someone or some organization threw money at them? In fact, that is not how it works. Dealing with poverty, disease, and their attendant ills is a nightmare of dysfunctional people in the midst of addictions, crime, and psychological trauma needing costly professional help -- in addition to soup kitchens and shelters. Something only a very sophisticated and expensive organization can actually deal with. LDS Family Services, like Catholic Relief, is part of that organized solution. Pouring money down a rathole is not. LDS Pathway is a worldwide educational effort which seeks to help people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Moreover, saving the world includes saving all our dead, though some scoff at the notion. The LDS Church is, after all, not some spare Protestant Church focused solely on preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is also an ancient mystery religion with a whole panoply of complex rites and symbols built in to its structure -- a full Restoration of all ancient modes of religious worship and secular action. We merely try to fulfill God's demands, including his demand that we build expensive holy houses for him. 4
Jeanne Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 Common sense just doesn't make much sense to some. A shame.
Calm Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Common sense just doesn't make much sense to some. A shame. Common sense generally ends up meaning something I accept without question and think everyone else should as well. Art is a useless endeavor that is a plaything for the rich to feel good about themselves, let's toss opera, plays, and art museums. We should even toss rock, hip hop, polka, whatever music as we don't need that to live. And everyone should just live in mass produced apartments painted white as that makes best use of energy as it spreads the light around the most. And clothing will be most cost efficient if we just go with natural beiges and one style for all. And we should all wear flats as healthiest alternative. Anything applied to religion can be applied to all the nonreligious activities and luxury possessions we have. At some point insisting on everyone operating on absolute needs only mode is likely self destructive as a community. Edited November 28, 2018 by Calm 4
MustardSeed Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) I’ll admit I attended an lds meetinghouse in Utah that was rockin’... with the slanted auditorium floor in the chapel and super fancy decor. I was told that this type of church house design had been stopped. I was a little glad. but my stake center smells like feet and our electric system cant handle a hair dryer. It could use some tszujing. Edited November 28, 2018 by MustardSeed 1
MiserereNobis Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: Common sense just doesn't make much sense to some. A shame. Common sense is often just an unexamined ideology hiding itself in some nebulous idea of "this is what most people think and it's right." 4
rpn Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 Are you asking how much should the trappings of a religion cost? Wasn't it JS who said that if a faith didn't require all things, it didn't have power to save? "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things, never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation". Lectures on faith. 1
The Nehor Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 5 hours ago, Amulek said: 42 Is that dollars or Euros or the answer to a cosmic question?
Meerkat Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) On 11/27/2018 at 3:20 PM, Calm said: I am not comfortable with serfs or others being forced to build or contribute, but if it is a willing sacrifice I don’t see why it can’t be viewed as a valued choice for a community. Right. The cathedrals, mosques and temples are beautiful and inspiring. When I see them, I don't think about forced labor. If that's how some were built, the workmanship appears to to have been done by proud craftsmen. I hope it was a statement of their faith. That's how I take it because I have been inspired.. Regarding the poor, money can't be the limiting factor. Microsoft was just an idea to a couple of teenagers. The mind of God is full of them when we need them, and just for the asking and a little labor. Perhaps poverty has more to do with the agency of despots, our own greed and insensitivity and also some of the poor. Christ said the poor will always be with us. How we treat the poor is probably an important part of our test. In the end, the last will be first. I don't believe lack of money is the problem. Edited November 29, 2018 by Meerkat
MustardSeed Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 On 11/27/2018 at 6:14 PM, rpn said: Are you asking how much should the trappings of a religion cost? Wasn't it JS who said that if a faith didn't require all things, it didn't have power to save? "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things, never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation". Lectures on faith. Well this morning after listening to an Amish man talking about a community member giving up all and living in a chicken coop eating table scraps for months on end as a way of atoning for his “sins” I have to side with common sense. Sometimes what looks like faith from the inside looks like absolute foolishness from the outside.
JLHPROF Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 Everything is already God's, nothing is ours. So asking how much of God's possessions get used for his work seems above our pay grade. It's never ours to worry about. 2
The Nehor Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Everything is already God's, nothing is ours. But that is set to change. Mwahahahahahaha! (Breaks out into “I just can’t wait to be King” from The Lion King)
bluebell Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 This question, as it's asked in the video, presupposes that there is nothing that God wants His children to spend money on more than taking care of the physical needs of the poor. I don't think we have any scriptures that support that assertion (and one scripture that contradicts it). I very much believe that God does want us to take care of the poor and those in need (and probably very few of us are doing enough in that regard) but I don't believe that physical and monetary needs are the only needs that He wants met for His children. 3
pogi Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 5 hours ago, bluebell said: This question, as it's asked in the video, presupposes that there is nothing that God wants His children to spend money on more than taking care of the physical needs of the poor. I don't think we have any scriptures that support that assertion (and one scripture that contradicts it). I very much believe that God does want us to take care of the poor and those in need (and probably very few of us are doing enough in that regard) but I don't believe that physical and monetary needs are the only needs that He wants met for His children. I think we have more than one that contradicts it. This line of questioning is reminiscent of Jesus's disciples who rebuked the women who anointed Jesus's head with expensive perfume, and asked "why this waste?" Quote While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of Simon the leper, a woman came to Him with an alabaster jar of expensive perfume, which she poured on His head as He reclined at the table. When the disciples saw this, they were indignant and asked, “Why this waste?… This perfume could have been sold at a high price, and the money given to the poor.” Aware of this, Jesus asked, “Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful deed to Me... Matthew 26 The scriptures make it sound like it was this saying by Jesus that was the straw that broke Judas Iscariot's back. After hearing this, Judas went and betrayed Jesus. This video is as blind as Judas. I also think of Solomon's temple, etc. 2
The Nehor Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 “He that seeketh to save his bank account shall lose it. He who loses his bank account for my sake and for the sake of my gospel shall find it.” - The Savior (heavily edited to the point I should probably fear getting struck by lightning)
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