Five Solas Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 Three questions: What stands out to you most about the life of Billy Graham? Who among LDS leaders do you think is most comparable? Lastly, how do you think the obituary coverage compares to the late Thomas S. Monson? (For the last question, recall some LDS were pretty scandalized by Monson’s treatment in the NYT, leading them to condemn the very institution.) Here’s coverage on Graham from the BBC. --Erik _____________________________________ What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. --James 4:14 2
Gray Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 Commendable that he preached against segregation, but his antisemitic views were disturbing. RIP
CA Steve Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 Here is a link to the long NYT obituary on Graham for comparison. Billy Graham, 99, Dies; Pastor Filled Stadiums and Counseled Presidents - NYT 2
bluebell Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 I've always had favorable impressions of Billy Graham but I don't know that much about him. My heart goes out to his family and friends and those who looked to him for spiritual guidance. It's hard to say good-bye, even when you know it's not forever. 4
Popular Post Robert F. Smith Posted February 21, 2018 Popular Post Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Five Solas said: Three questions: What stands out to you most about the life of Billy Graham? Who among LDS leaders do you think is most comparable? Lastly, how do you think the obituary coverage compares to the late Thomas S. Monson? ....................... No LDS leaders are comparable to Billy. They are all part of a very different world. We would have to say the same of Jewish leaders. However, as evangelical preachers go, Billy was the best of his generation, no question, and I used to enjoy listening to him during his crusades. Too bad that his son Franklin doesn't have his father's personality or attitude. Billy did do and say some things to reporters which would have been better left unsaid (especially about castration as a punishment for rape), but he was a fallible human like all of us, and he said so. A good, honest Christian gentleman. Would that we had more like him. 12
Anakin7 Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 I used to watch a # of his crusades on T.V, he talked of Faith, Repentance from sin, giving ones life to Jesus Christ, all of which are True LDS Doctrines,Teachings, Practices. I have his DVD "Gods Ambassador" which I have watched in the past concerning his life's journey, I grew to Love The man. sad he is Gone. May True Grace be with him in the realm where he is now. May His Family be blessed as well. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior 4
JAHS Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 Just out of curiosity my wife and I took our family to one of his crusade gatherings at the Arco Arena in Sacramento. The place was so full we had to sit outside on the grass and listen from the many speakers that were set up out there.
Jeanne Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 Interesting...I thought anyway.. Sometimes his voice was like Mr. Rogers...and he would put the kids asleep for me. 1
Guest Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 I grew up a Baptist, and my family never missed any televised sermon. I would lie on the floor in front of the TV, my elbows on the floor, my head propped up in my hands, listening and watching him. I for one will miss him. 4
LittleNipper Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 I believe no one had a better grasp of the salvation message than Rev. Graham. He personified the 1950's and continued to be relevant through to his last crusade. He is in heaven now. 1
USU78 Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 A hard-won change of heart from him increased my respect by leaps: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/10/19/billy-graham-no-longer-thinks-mormonism-is-a-cult/ And he took some grief from his own on his change in stance: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/billy-graham-faces-backlash-over-mormoncult-removal/2012/10/24/2f9ca0c6-1e1b-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html?utm_term=.e0db0f182a39 4
LittleNipper Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Gray said: Commendable that he preached against segregation, but his antisemitic views were disturbing. RIP I feel that under the circumstances it's hard to say anything without offending someone. I'm sure that the Rev Graham fully understood that Jews were and are GOD's chosen people. Even Jesus would come under criticism of what He said concerning the Jewish leadership... Just read the New Testament concerning those children of the devil/vipers! People don't always like the truth. 1
Gray Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: I feel that under the circumstances it's hard to say anything without offending someone. I'm sure that the Rev Graham fully understood that Jews were and are GOD's chosen people. Even Jesus would come under criticism of what He said concerning the Jewish leadership... Just read the New Testament concerning those children of the devil/vipers! People don't always like the truth. John has a lot of antisemitism because it's written late and it represents a separation from Judaism, in the midst of Roman persecution of the Jews. It did not pay to be associated with the Jewish people - it could cost you money or even your life. Early Christianity, however, was merely another sect of Judaism. The only Jewish people Jesus seemed to object to were those who collaborated with Roman occupiers. Jesus was himself thoroughly Jewish. From the Nixon tapes, Billy Graham said: Quote ''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances.'' This is typical antisemitic garbage. Edited February 21, 2018 by Gray
Storm Rider Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) I respected the man. His ecumenical approach to teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ is worthy of emulation. There does seem to be a difference between how the obituaries of Billy Graham and Thomas Monson. Graham was not favorable or supportive of LGBTQ lifestyles. He stated: In 1974, when a young woman wrote to the famous evangelist about her sexual love for another woman, Graham immediately replied with a hellish threat: Homosexual perverts, with their “ungodly spirit of self-gratification,” will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. “[L]et me say this loud and clear!” he added. “We traffic in homosexuality at the peril of our spiritual welfare.” (That position was no surprise to Graham’s minions: Several years earlier he had described homosexuality as “a sinister form of perversion” contributing to the decay of civilization.) Monson was held to a much higher scrutiny on this golden calf of today than Graham. Why the difference? I suspect because Billy Graham was more well known than Monson and, of course, Mormons remain a distrusted group for the majority of the US if we used as evidence the number of people who would not vote for a Mormon as President. Edited February 22, 2018 by Storm Rider 3
carbon dioxide Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: However, as evangelical preachers go, Billy was the best of his generation, no question, There were some other that are contenders. Peter Popoff along with Earnest Angley could keep me watching for a while. Doctor Gene Scott also was awesome. He would blow smoke into the camera and one time he was upset about something and was threatening to excommunicate certain people on air. Very good stuff. Edited February 22, 2018 by carbon dioxide 2
Calm Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: Why the difference? I suspect because Billy Graham was more well know than Monson and, of course, Mormons remain a distrusted group for the majority of the US if we used as support the number of people who would not vote for a Mormon as President. Anything more recent than 1974? Pres. Monson directing the Church to release a policy on apostasy in 2015 is a bit more present in people's minds than a 1974 comment. 1
Storm Rider Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, Calm said: Anything more recent than 1974? Pres. Monson directing the Church to release a policy on apostasy in 2015 is a bit more present in people's minds than a 1974 comment. I did not do a comprehensive search. The link was dated 2014 and appeared to compare Billy with his son's position on homosexuality. His son has stated their views were the same. I assumed 2014 is recent enough.
mfbukowski Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Loved the guy and quite honestly his altar calls made me start thinking about personal revelation and how and why some respond to the call and others do not. I responded to one on tv and would have gone down and take action on it, if I was there and did it privately anyway. I never went to church though because I had problems with the theology but accepting Christ? Absolutely. Pure experience without attachments to men and their doctrinal philosophies It was the beginning of what later became my "testimony" - it was more of the same feeling but one of degree and not quality. It is the immersion in God's love. HERE I found both the spirit AND doctrinal philosophy that actually made sense -Moroni 10:4-5. In my book Rev Graham was teaching Moroni in his altar calls. "Ask God and he wil speak to your heart" No difference 2
CV75 Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Loved the guy and quite honestly his altar calls made me start thinking about personal revelation and how and why some respond to the call and others do not. I responded to one on tv and would have gone down and take action on it, if I was there and did it privately anyway. I never went to church though because I had problems with the theology but accepting Christ? Absolutely. Pure experience without attachments to men and their doctrinal philosophies It was the beginning of what later became my "testimony" - it was more of the same feeling but one of degree and not quality. It is the immersion in God's love. HERE I found both the spirit AND doctrinal philosophy that actually made sense -Moroni 10:4-5. In my book Rev Graham was teaching Moroni in his altar calls. "Ask God and he wil speak to your heart" No difference I was brought up in a sporadically church-attending Protestant home but my mother taught me the Lord's prayer and to let my conscience be my guide (a lesson from Walt Disney's Pinocchio), and my father taught me to be honest (he was FBI). My beginning for what later became my testimony was a donation slip with a sketch of the Good Samaritan / Jesus and the repentant/forgiven feelings I felt when putting money in it for a (Jewish) kid I had punched in the nose. A six year-old's guilt assuaged... A few years later in my childhood I saw Billy Graham on TV and the way he spoke of the devil and Satan scared me to death -- I asked my father who this man was and that's where I first heard the word "evangelist"... and that teh devil was only symbolic ... Comparing the two feelings helped me later in life when I came across the Restored Gospel, an as you pointed out. 4
Calm Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: I did not do a comprehensive search. The link was dated 2014 and appeared to compare Billy with his son's position on homosexuality. His son has stated their views were the same. I assumed 2014 is recent enough. Did you do a search at all beyond going with a first hit? His son saying something in 2014 is not the same as him saying it. I am not attempting to get you to prove he held those views, just pointing out why NYT might not care enough to put them in his obit. If someone hasn't been vocal about their views for awhile, they don't tend to attract attention. A number of gay news and blog sites are talking about his views. Edited February 22, 2018 by Calm
Five Solas Posted February 22, 2018 Author Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Gray said: ... This is typical antisemitic garbage. 100% agree with you there, Gray. Worth noting that when the Nixon tapes came out, Graham didn't try to spin it or justify himself. He apologized and asked for forgiveness, personally, from a number of Jewish leaders. NPR talked a bit about that. --Erik 1
mfbukowski Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, CV75 said: I was brought up in a sporadically church-attending Protestant home but my mother taught me the Lord's prayer and to let my conscience be my guide (a lesson from Walt Disney's Pinocchio), and my father taught me to be honest (he was FBI). My beginning for what later became my testimony was a donation slip with a sketch of the Good Samaritan / Jesus and the repentant/forgiven feelings I felt when putting money in it for a (Jewish) kid I had punched in the nose. A six year-old's guilt assuaged... A few years later in my childhood I saw Billy Graham on TV and the way he spoke of the devil and Satan scared me to death -- I asked my father who this man was and that's where I first heard the word "evangelist"... and that teh devil was only symbolic ... Comparing the two feelings helped me later in life when I came across the Restored Gospel, an as you pointed out. No wonder we get along- you are a convert. 1
sunstoned Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 12 hours ago, Gray said: Commendable that he preached against segregation, but his antisemitic views were disturbing. RIP Billy Graham did say some unfortunate things. But he did apologize and he did issue a written apology to Jewish leaders: issued a written apology I find it refreshing that he would actually be humble enough to admit a mistake and apologize. I think there are many religious leaders who could take a lesson from brother Graham. RIP 3
rodheadlee Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: There were some other that are contenders. Peter Popoff along with Earnest Angley could keep me watching for a while. Doctor Gene Scott also was awesome. He would blow smoke into the camera and one time he was upset about something and was threatening to excommunicate certain people on air. Very good stuff. I miss Dr Gene Scott. It's because of his teachings that we were ready for our discovery of the Church. Edited February 22, 2018 by rodheadlee 1
Gray Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Five Solas said: 100% agree with you there, Gray. Worth noting that when the Nixon tapes came out, Graham didn't try to spin it or justify himself. He apologized and asked for forgiveness, personally, from a number of Jewish leaders. NPR talked a bit about that. --Erik He did deny making those statements until the tapes came and and proved he did. But, to be fair, he was already pretty advanced in age, he may have forgotten.
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