CV75 Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 19 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: No LDS leaders are comparable to Billy. They are all part of a very different world. We would have to say the same of Jewish leaders. However, as evangelical preachers go, Billy was the best of his generation, no question, and I used to enjoy listening to him during his crusades. Too bad that his son Franklin doesn't have his father's personality or attitude. Billy did do and say some things to reporters which would have been better left unsaid (especially about castration as a punishment for rape), but he was a fallible human like all of us, and he said so. A good, honest Christian gentleman. Would that we had more like him. Amen Brother, and Hallelujah, just like Moroni! (Alma 48:17-19)!!!
Anakin7 Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 9 hours ago, rodheadlee said: I miss Dr Gene Scott. It's because of his teachings that we were ready for our discovery of the Church. I used to Love watching him on T.V. He was big on Tithing and mentioned one time " Hell, At least The Mormons Tithe" The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior 1
LittleNipper Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Gray said: John has a lot of antisemitism because it's written late and it represents a separation from Judaism, in the midst of Roman persecution of the Jews. It did not pay to be associated with the Jewish people - it could cost you money or even your life. Early Christianity, however, was merely another sect of Judaism. The only Jewish people Jesus seemed to object to were those who collaborated with Roman occupiers. Jesus was himself thoroughly Jewish. From the Nixon tapes, Billy Graham said: This is typical antisemitic garbage. I'd have to agree with Pastor Billy Graham. Messianic Jews are disavowed by Jews clinging to the Torah as their means of salvation. And many Jews are agnostic and atheistic. I personally heard one Jew say that he'd prefered an atheistic Jew to one committed to Christ. And then we have Hollywood, with all the splendor of a cesspool. But the reality is that unless one is regenerated (baptised by the Holy Ghost) through faith in the Messiah, such an individual is a pawn of the devil! I see that Pastor Graham was rather astute in his words about human nature. And frankly, Jesus Christ said this and more! I imagine Pastor Graham simply did not wish to get onto some cheap sensationalistic scandal sheet that would certainly attempt to remove the vocus from CHRIST and redirect it towards Billy Graham. Edited February 22, 2018 by LittleNipper
Gray Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I'd have to agree with Pastor Billy Graham. Messianic Jews are disavowed by Jews clinging to the Torah as their means of salvation. And many Jews are agnostic and atheistic. I personally heard one Jew say that he'd prefered an atheistic Jew to one committed to Christ. And then we have Hollywood, with all the splendor of a cesspool. But the reality is that unless one is regenerated (baptised by the Holy Ghost) through faith in the Messiah, such an individual is a pawn of the devil! I see that Pastor Graham was rather astute in his words about human nature. And frankly, Jesus Christ said this and more! I imagine Pastor Graham simply did not wish to get onto some cheap sensationalistic scandal sheet that would certainly attempt to remove the vocus from CHRIST and redirect it towards Billy Graham. Sorry, I reject antisemitism in all its forms. 4
LittleNipper Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gray said: Sorry, I reject antisemitism in all its forms. If Jesus said it and you reject it, you reject Jesus. Jesus is perfect and what Jesus said or says is perfection. I for one do not believe in races. We are all sinful and very human and all related to Adam and Eve through Noah. If you accept anything apart from that , you are establishing a racist argument. You are most certainly not any better than anybody else. Edited February 22, 2018 by LittleNipper
CA Steve Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: If Jesus said it and you reject it, you reject Jesus. Jesus is perfect and what Jesus said or says is perfection. I for one do not believe in races. We are all sinful and very human and all related to Adam and Eve through Noah. If you accept anything apart from that , you are establishing a racist argument. You are most certainly not any better than anybody else. I'll make you a deal. I will not claim to define for you how to interpret the Bible if you will show me the same courtesy. 2
Jane_Doe Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) On 2/21/2018 at 8:12 AM, Five Solas said: What stands out to you most about the life of Billy Graham? His wonderful love of God, radiating so clearly. RIP. The mortal world has lost a great man. On 2/21/2018 at 8:12 AM, Five Solas said: Who among LDS leaders do you think is most comparable? I really perfer to just see people as individuals. Edited February 23, 2018 by Jane_Doe 3
Five Solas Posted February 23, 2018 Author Posted February 23, 2018 11 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I'd have to agree with Pastor Billy Graham. Messianic Jews are disavowed by Jews clinging to the Torah as their means of salvation. And many Jews are agnostic and atheistic. I personally heard one Jew say that he'd prefered an atheistic Jew to one committed to Christ. And then we have Hollywood, with all the splendor of a cesspool. But the reality is that unless one is regenerated (baptised by the Holy Ghost) through faith in the Messiah, such an individual is a pawn of the devil! I see that Pastor Graham was rather astute in his words about human nature. And frankly, Jesus Christ said this and more! I imagine Pastor Graham simply did not wish to get onto some cheap sensationalistic scandal sheet that would certainly attempt to remove the vocus from CHRIST and redirect it towards Billy Graham. And I must agree with Gray on this, LittleNipper. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you - but you appear to be arguing in favor of the words Graham apologized for, and for which he asked forgiveness. Is that really the case? Do you honestly think there was nothing wrong with his words recorded on the tapes? And if so, do you think his apology was a ruse, motivated by pragmatism? --Erik 1
Gray Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) On 2/22/2018 at 3:55 PM, LittleNipper said: If Jesus said it and you reject it, you reject Jesus. Jesus is perfect and what Jesus said or says is perfection. I for one do not believe in races. We are all sinful and very human and all related to Adam and Eve through Noah. If you accept anything apart from that , you are establishing a racist argument. You are most certainly not any better than anybody else. Sorry, but antisemitism is a rejection of Jesus. Jesus was Jewish, not Christian. I cast my lot with Jesus, not with people who tout conspiracy theories against Jewish people. Edited February 28, 2018 by Gray 3
The Nehor Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 22 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I'd have to agree with Pastor Billy Graham. Messianic Jews are disavowed by Jews clinging to the Torah as their means of salvation. And many Jews are agnostic and atheistic. I personally heard one Jew say that he'd prefered an atheistic Jew to one committed to Christ. And then we have Hollywood, with all the splendor of a cesspool. But the reality is that unless one is regenerated (baptised by the Holy Ghost) through faith in the Messiah, such an individual is a pawn of the devil! I see that Pastor Graham was rather astute in his words about human nature. And frankly, Jesus Christ said this and more! I imagine Pastor Graham simply did not wish to get onto some cheap sensationalistic scandal sheet that would certainly attempt to remove the vocus from CHRIST and redirect it towards Billy Graham. Wait, did you just implicitly support the idea that a secret cabal of Jews controls Hollywood? Get help! 3
The Nehor Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Billy Graham was one of the best of the Evangelical megapreachers. Admittedly that is not a high standard to aspire to. Edited February 23, 2018 by The Nehor 2
Anakin7 Posted February 24, 2018 Posted February 24, 2018 I for one respected him. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS, Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior
aussieguy55 Posted February 24, 2018 Posted February 24, 2018 I remember in my teens attending a Lutheran boarding school being bused to attend the Billy Graham meeting in Brisbane. Many of the local clergy on the stand with him. Now years later after a Royal Commission into Child Abuse in churches and associated organisations like children's homes the churches are slowly losing influence. The census shows increasing numbers of people associated with no religion. The Lutheran church I was associated with has an aging membership and soon may split over women's ordination. I found Richard V Peace's book Conversion in the New Testament interesting as it has a section dealing with "encounter evangelism" Peace talks about conversion as "insight, turning and transformation" He writes that research into conversion at mass meetings has not been that effective. Only a small number remained committed to Christ. Why is it that the Mormon experience is insight (missionary instruction), turning (baptism etc) and transformation (activity, serving etc) does not get through to many converts as census records show a large difference between those active and those not. Korean christians I hear use the process model. For example a group of Korean businessmen will invite a nonchristian businessmen to their small group. Upon conversion he attends the larger church and is already familiar with some people there.
Alan Posted February 24, 2018 Posted February 24, 2018 I think the LDS leader who was closest to Billy Graham in terms of delivery style was undoubtedly Paul H. Dunn. In terms of theological explanation and exhortation either Neal A Maxwell or Bruce R. McConkie, with McConkie just shaving it I think. In contemporary terms, Jeffrey R Holland is the closest we have now.
JAHS Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 It would be interesting to know if he eventually accepts the gospel in the spirit world. He could make a pretty good missionary to the rest of those in spirit prison.
Five Solas Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 11 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Ah, what conservatism used to look like. It's cool the Hoover Institute took the trouble to dust this off and make it available. I'll try to finish it later. Interesting how Graham speaks of a revolt against the organized Church and distinguishes it from a revolt against Christ. This could be confusing for LDS who I think struggle with such distinction... Much obliged for the post, Mr. Smith. --Erik
Robert F. Smith Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Five Solas said: Ah, what conservatism used to look like. It's cool the Hoover Institute took the trouble to dust this off and make it available. I'll try to finish it later. Interesting how Graham speaks of a revolt against the organized Church and distinguishes it from a revolt against Christ. This could be confusing for LDS who I think struggle with such distinction............................................ I was quite taken with Rev Graham's belief in beings on other planets, and that we are "little gods." As to the firmly based LDS theological notion of the Church of Christ as the formal Kingdom of God on Earth, I see no confusion at all. Indeed, it goes well together with Graham's argument that a "Christian" is someone who has a deep commitment to Christ. Graham describes that as a "supernatural" birth from above, thus avoiding the obvious place of the Holy Spirit in that event (which Mormon theology describes as natural). I also appreciate Graham's NT description of Christianity as the Way, since the LDS religion is not just a Sunday-go-to-meeting religion, but is instead a way of life. Far from struggling with the distinction between Christ and His Church, Mormons find them inextricably connected and fully authorized through the priesthood of the Order of the Son of God. Edited February 26, 2018 by Robert F. Smith 2
Gray Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Five Solas said: Ah, what conservatism used to look like. How far they've fallen. 1
RevTestament Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 I was raised Baptist, and just was never exposed to Billy Graham, but I've found a new reason to respect Billy Graham. He paid the bail for Martin Luther King several times. Once when an usher refused to remove a segregating barrier, Graham went and removed it himself, and told the people to sit where they wanted. 4
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