Mormon Leaks

[Damien the Leper]

It seems someone has had the bright idea to share videos of GA meetings. Perhaps now we can get these Mormon church conspiracy theories out of the way. Either way, I love the dumping of pointless private drivel. It makes for good irony and obvious idiocy jokes.

http://kutv.com/news/local/watch-leaked-videos-show-briefings-of-lds-leadership

[mtomm]

Some not so pointless or drivel. I'd say the OR politician part is pretty disturbing. 

[flameburns623]

Trib article re: same:

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/4423214-155/leaked-videos-show-mormon-apostles-discussing?fullpage=1

Y-A-W-N😴😪😴😪

[cinepro]

7 minutes ago, mtomm said:

Some not so pointless or drivel. I'd say the OR politician part is pretty disturbing. 

Didn't watch it, but here's a write-up from someone who did.  It's former Oregon Senator Gordon Smith (served 1997 - 2009):

In this video the man introducing the senator referred to his Senate staff as "church broke", and claims that the staffers would call church officials asking for direction. Smith himself states that he was raised to "follow the brethren" and holds the 12 in higher regard than presidents, governments, and other dignitaries. Repeatedly states that his temple recommend was more important than the votes of his constituents. Paints a picture of his Senate career as having been started for the purpose of serving church interests in the government.

Also says that he voted for the Iraq war because he saw "the Lord's hand in it", and that he knew the church would never be able to send missionaries there under that regime.   This happens about 11:30 and he goes into great detail about how the war might allow the church to build there. He quotes President Hinkley as saying, "Our missionaries always follow in the footsteps of American soldiers" after being told that LDS military personnel were baptizing Iraqis in the field.

Says that Medicare, Medicaid, and social security are "pyramid schemes" that cause people to look toward government instead of God. This, he explains, is why more socialist countries are rejecting the church. He also makes the prediction that the economy of the United States will be destroyed by these programs if not fixed by 2015.

Beginning at 19:25 he advises the twelve to not reach out to the Gay community because they will never be satisfied, but instead focus on communicating with Americans who are against marriage equality, who at that time, were still the majority. He encourages them to double down on the kind of work they did on Prop 8.

Around 26:58 he discloses information about Iran's nuclear capabilities which he isn't sure whether is classified or not. He goes on to describe Armageddon and confirms that Israel has nuclear capabilities.

Around 33:00 someone specifically asks about the future of the Republican party, Obama had just been elected and won both houses, and Smith refers to democrats as assorted miscreants, to everyone's laughter. In general, every last one of his political and economic predictions ended up being completely false. If the 12 made decisions based on his predictions, then they probably regretted it.

At 37:00 he states that Catholics and evangelicals are unreliable allies. Says that Catholics don't believe their own doctrines and that evangelicals are guilty of priestcraft. He advises to "use them as you can" but not to be so open offering their support. Says the best way to use these groups is as a front to "lower the profile"of the church's political involvement.

At 42:00, the initial introduction speaker again emphasizes how important it's been to have five recommend holders in the Senate and many more in the house to allow the church to conduct business and influence decisions.

Around 45:00, Smith describes how the church should "use" it's senators like Harry Reid to open diplomatic doors. He describes how he used his office to establish the first LDS mission in India.

[Tacenda]

I don't understand how KUTV could report this. It seems like a breach of privacy. 

[Scott Lloyd]

Haven't watched all of them yet, but from the ones I've seen, those who are expecting some sort of sensational smoking gun that will condemn the Brethren are going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[Jeanne]

39 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Didn't watch it, but here's a write-up from someone who did.  It's former Oregon Senator Gordon Smith (served 1997 - 2009):

 

 

Doesn't anyone see a problem with info above? 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Doesn't anyone see a problem with info above? 

Not at the moment, but if you point out something in particular, perhaps we could discuss it.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Doesn't anyone see a problem with info above? 

Not at the moment, but if you point out something in particular, perhaps we could discuss it.

 

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Doesn't anyone see a problem with info above? 

I didn't watch it but only read Cinepro's write up from someone who did.  Given that, i'm not sure what I'm supposed to react to.  A church member (who happens to be a politician), has some interesting ideas, beliefs, and feelings about things.

Every ward in the church is probably full of 50 or more church members with interesting ideas, beliefs, and feelings about things.  I'm guessing that's true for most denominations regardless of which church it is.

Maybe I need to watch it to get the full understanding though.  

[Johnnie Cake]

Wow...72% of church youth are inactive by age 20 according to then Presiding Bishop Burton.

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I didn't watch it but only read Cinepro's write up from someone who did.  Given that, i'm not sure what I'm supposed to react to.  A church member (who happens to be a politician), has some interesting ideas, beliefs, and feelings about things.

Every ward in the church is probably full of 50 or more church members with interesting ideas, beliefs, and feelings about things.  I'm guessing that's true for most denominations regardless of which church it is.

Maybe I need to watch it to get the full understanding though.  

I think it's more our current culture's voyeuristic obsession and fascination with whistleblower leaks or hidden camera/hidden mike exposes. It doesn't really matter if there are smoking guns, or any guns at all --- it's just the existence and the fact of the expose that gets people excited. 

[JAHS]

Here's a response from the Church:

LDS Church responds to leaked videos of private meetings of Mormon apostles

An LDS Church spokesman responded Sunday to the unauthorized leak of 15 videos of members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in private meetings.

"Most of these videos appear to be from briefings received by senior church leaders between 2007 and 2012," church spokesman Eric Hawkins said. "In these committee meetings, presentations are routinely received from various religious, political and subject-matter experts on a variety of topics.

"The purpose," he added, "is to understand issues that may face the church and is in pursuit of the obligation church leaders feel to be informed on and have open discussion about current issues. This is an informational forum, not a decision-making body."

[rpn]

3 hours ago, mtomm said:

Some not so pointless or drivel. I'd say the OR politician part is pretty disturbing. 

But if you actually listen, you know that he specifically didn't talk about what was classified and the rest of cinepro's quote is equally different from what you see on the recording.

My takeaway from the videos is that one can listen to them all if they want but you should not believe any of the descriptions offered by those who didn't actually wade through them themselves because, so far the descriptions I've read are not true to the videos (and in some cases it isn't even possible to understand how the descriptions came about).  (And the videos are done in a way that should make it really easy for the Church to identify whom was recording.)

And the meetings don't appear to be "meetings of the 12" either.   In most cases there are some apostles, but others as well.

Update: some of what has been said about the Manning video has a kernel of accuracy.

Edited October 2, 2016 by rpn

[JulieM]

I have not watched the videos but just read there's some things said about the gays and the "gay agenda".  

Can anyone post what was said?

[Calm]

There is quite

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

Didn't watch it, but here's a write-up from someone who did.  It's former Oregon Senator Gordon Smith (served 1997 - 2009):

 

 

The wiki entry on him makes this rather surprising.  When grandkids go home, I will have to watch it.

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, rpn said:

 (And the videos are done in a way that should make it really easy for the Church to identify whom was recording.)

And the meetings don't appear to be "meetings of the 12" either.   In most cases there are some apostles, but others as well.

It looks like these are professional recordings made of briefing meetings for the Church, not secretly recorded.  Several camera angles, decent audio, etc.. someone probably hacked archives.

The one I glanced at the room was packed so I don't see these as the confidential meetings, but looks like just info gathering.  And there would be tons more so we don't know if the appearance of an echo chamber is accurate, but I would not expect much debate to take place among the group at that time anyway.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Calm

[SteveO]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

It looks like these are professional recordings made of briefing meetings for the Church, not secretly recorded.  Several camera angles, decent audio, etc.. someone probably hacked archives.

Employee in the church's media department?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Wow...72% of church youth are inactive by age 20 according to then Presiding Bishop Burton.

Which vid has that info?

[Johnnie Cake]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Which vid has that info?

"The fret over young single adults" video

[Calm]

Thank you

[mtomm]

If they haven't before  LDS members running for office will now have to contend with the perception that members have allegiance to the a church over their constituents.  Like concerns over Mitt Romney in 2012. That's a shame.

Edited October 2, 2016 by mtomm

[juliann]

2 hours ago, cinepro said:

Didn't watch it, but here's a write-up from someone who did.  It's former Oregon Senator Gordon Smith (served 1997 - 2009):

 

 

Uh, there is some liberal paraphrasing in that write-up....there is no need to not be deadly accurate, he spoke as if he was auditioning for apostlehood he was so obsequious and self-congratulatory.  

Quote

At 37:00 he states that Catholics and evangelicals are unreliable allies. Says that Catholics don't believe their own doctrines and that evangelicals are guilty of priestcraft. He advises to "use them as you can" but not to be so open offering their support. Says the best way to use these groups is as a front to "lower the profile"of the church's political involvement.

Not quite, this leaves out a lot...after all, Smith is a politician and crafts words carefully. He calls them fair weather friends...but "the only thing worse than allies is not having any." The American Catholic church that is libertarian in that members don't  believe what they" teach on abortion and the sanctity of the family." Many run businesses that are priestcraft, they run business off of religion and make money off of Mormons. His point was that they couldn't be expected to come to the church's defense in the public square. 

I also left out a lot because this guy qualifies everything, he is giving praise in the middle of his take down. What this summary does is make it sound like he is talking about these religions as a whole when he was actually talking about specific things within the religion. And he is obviously talking about professional anti-Mormon EVs who make money off of denouncing other religions (and those are the types a politician would likely know...we see them on the political stage all the time.) 

I think this video is going to do far more damage to Smith than the church. I think his saying God had a hand in the Iraq war so missionaries could get in was the worst of all. The point being, however, is don't trust summaries that feel they have to add to something that is already awful. Not a particularly important point....but accuracy rules.

[Duncan]

I've heard of these before. A guy who was a Area Presidency exec. sec. took screen shots of these meetings and put them up on his blog. I screenshotted one with some guy asleep in the back and put it up on my facebook

[cdowis]

 

Quote

I think this video is going to do far more damage to Smith than the church.

This will hurt the church -->  Anyone who wants to speak off-the-record now faces the possibility that their remarks will come back to haunt them.

Edited October 3, 2016 by cdowis