Why Pray "thy Will Be Done?"

[HappyJackWagon]

When we pray in faith or give a priesthood blessing we often end with a sentiment of "Not my will but thine be done."

 

Simple question- Do we have any reason to think God's will would not be done? If his will is guaranteed to be done, what is the use in praying for it? Is it a faux show of humility? Or is the act simply for our own benefit to remind us that we may not receive the blessing or answer we're desperate for so that we can feel good about not receiving what we feel we need?

 

 

[Spammer]

When we pray in faith or give a priesthood blessing we often end with a sentiment of "Not my will but thine be done."

 

Simple question- Do we have any reason to think God's will would not be done? If his will is guaranteed to be done, what is the use in praying for it? Is it a faux show of humility? Or is the act simply for our own benefit to remind us that we may not receive the blessing or answer we're desperate for so that we can feel good about not receiving what we feel we need?

 

In the Orthodox tradition, we pray "thy will be done" in order to attain to divine union.  This requires uniting our will with God's will, whereby the ego is eliminated and we become one with God, living the divine life of absolute self-giving.

[Kenngo1969]

It's not that we don't believe God's will will be done.  It's an indication that we will submit our will to His.  As I have written elsewhere, our will is the only thing we can give back to God that He didn't give us in the first place. https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/06/08/on-submitting-my-will-to-gods/

 

P.S.: I see Spammer beat me to it.  Good call!

Edited July 18, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

A few years ago, Elder Dallin H. Oaks spoke regarding the elements of a Priesthood blessing, including anointing, sealing, the words of the blessing, the faith of the recipient, and the will of the Lord. Regarding the last element, he said:

 

Will of the Lord

 

Young men and older men, please take special note of what I will say now. As we exercise the undoubted power of the priesthood of God and as we treasure His promise that He will hear and answer the prayer of faith, we must always remember that faith and the healing power of the priesthood cannot produce a result contrary to the will of Him whose priesthood it is. This principle is taught in the revelation directing that the elders of the Church shall lay their hands upon the sick. The Lord’s promise is that “he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed” (D&C 42:48; emphasis added). Similarly, in another modern revelation the Lord declares that when one “asketh according to the will of God … it is done even as he asketh” (D&C 46:30). 14

 

From all of this we learn that even the servants of the Lord, exercising His divine power in a circumstance where there is sufficient faith to be healed, cannot give a priesthood blessing that will cause a person to be healed if that healing is not the will of the Lord.

 

As children of God, knowing of His great love and His ultimate knowledge of what is best for our eternal welfare, we trust in Him. The first principle of the gospel is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and faith means trust. I felt that trust in a talk my cousin gave at the funeral of a teenage girl who had died of a serious illness. He spoke these words, which first astonished me and then edified me: “I know it was the will of the Lord that she die. She had good medical care. She was given priesthood blessings. Her name was on the prayer roll in the temple. She was the subject of hundreds of prayers for her restoration to health. And I know that there is enough faith in this family that she would have been healed unless it was the will of the Lord to take her home at this time.” I felt that same trust in the words of the father of another choice girl whose life was taken by cancer in her teen years. He declared, “Our family’s faith is in Jesus Christ and is not dependent on outcomes.” Those teachings ring true to me. We do all that we can for the healing of a loved one, and then we trust in the Lord for the outcome.

 

 

Elder Dallin H. Oaks (April 2010) “Healing the Sick,” accessed on line at https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/healing-the-sick?lang=eng on July 18, 2015.

[JLHPROF]

Personally I think we do that when we don't KNOW the will of the Lord going in.  Administering against God's purposes would definitely be considered "asking amiss".  So we ask in faith and trust God.

 

However, if the spirit has already revealed the will of the Lord then we are acting as his servants in administering his blessing to man and should not use that phrase.

Joseph didn't use that phrase during the "day of power" in Nauvoo.  Christ didn't use it when healing.  They already knew what it was that God wanted.

Edited July 18, 2015 by JLHPROF

[HappyJackWagon]

I understand the concept of being unified with God but does that unity come through a vain repitition. The act of praying in this way accomplishes nothing of itself aside from making a statement that we will follow God's will. I don't know that a pray is necessary to accept God's will. The prayer or blessing itself effects no change whatsoever. Everything could be cut except for "thy will be done," as a show of solidarity with God.

 

Thinking of the question in a slightly different way- Why is prayer useful? If God's will assuredly will be done anyway is praying simply a social or personal ritual. Are there any tangible benefits to prayer? We act like there are but what would those be?

 

The only benefit I would see is sharing a social expression and praise to God, which is great, but I don't see any reason we would expect any tangible benefit beyond what God would already provide.

[strappinglad]

It's not a huge leap from not saying " if it be God's will " , to saying that everything that happens is God's will.

Personally I think God/Heaven can be influenced by a prayer of faith as well as blocked by a lack of faith. The scriptures have stories of conversations between man and God about this. Even Christ said He could do no miracles in some places. Not that He didn't want to, but that they could not be done.

[mfbukowski]

Because Jesus said so.

[Avatar4321]

I can't remember ever saying thy will be done on a blessing

[JLHPROF]

I understand the concept of being unified with God but does that unity come through a vain repitition. The act of praying in this way accomplishes nothing of itself aside from making a statement that we will follow God's will. I don't know that a pray is necessary to accept God's will. The prayer or blessing itself effects no change whatsoever. Everything could be cut except for "thy will be done," as a show of solidarity with God.

 

Thinking of the question in a slightly different way- Why is prayer useful? If God's will assuredly will be done anyway is praying simply a social or personal ritual. Are there any tangible benefits to prayer? We act like there are but what would those be?

 

The only benefit I would see is sharing a social expression and praise to God, which is great, but I don't see any reason we would expect any tangible benefit beyond what God would already provide.

 

I disagree.

I think the act of blessing (or praying) is fulfilling a law without which the blessing is not permitted to be given.  God can heal based on his own will, and does every day.  But he has also established a law concerning our actions in healing.  There is also a law of prayer that works according to its own laws too.

 

D&C 130

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

 

So if the law of healing, even the lesser law of healing, requires laying hands, anointing with oil, and either priesthood authority or strong faith in order for the blessing to be received then that is the law.

We know there are higher laws of healing that go beyond the laying on of hands as evidenced by both the Savior and Joseph Smith, but as Joseph taught us:

"What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord"

 

And then when our faith and knowledge and unity with the will of God has grown so too will our ability to move to a higher law of healing.  Just as the temple teaches us a higher law of prayer.

But to say following the law "effects no change whatsoever" is just not true.

Edited July 18, 2015 by JLHPROF

[David13]

Everything that happens is not necessarily God's will.  There are many self-willed people in this world.

We all have free will or agency.

This part of the prayer is to remind us where we should go.

Too many people forget.

dc

[bluebell]

When we pray in faith or give a priesthood blessing we often end with a sentiment of "Not my will but thine be done."

Simple question- Do we have any reason to think God's will would not be done? If his will is guaranteed to be done, what is the use in praying for it? Is it a faux show of humility? Or is the act simply for our own benefit to remind us that we may not receive the blessing or answer we're desperate for so that we can feel good about not receiving what we feel we need?

Since true prayer is not getting God to do what we want but getting ourselves to want what God will do, using that phrase (when we mean it) is both a reminder of prayer's purpose as well as a way for us to voice our faith and trust in the Being we are praying to.

[Teancum]

If God knows the beginning and the end, if God is omniscient then when someone is ill why pray at all? What impact on the outcome can our prayers have really?

[bluebell]

If God knows the beginning and the end, if God is omniscient then when someone is ill why pray at all? What impact on the outcome can our prayers have really?

Prayer is a "work" that must be done to access certain blessings that God is very will to give but which are predicated upon us asking for them.

[JLHPROF]

If God knows the beginning and the end, if God is omniscient then when someone is ill why pray at all? What impact on the outcome can our prayers have really?

 

Prayer is a "work" that must be done to access certain blessings that God is very will to give but which are predicated upon us asking for them.

 

This exactly.  There is a law attached to every blessing.

It's like someone asking "Why did Jesus have himself baptized?"  He had no sin to be forgiven.  The covenant we make at Baptism is to take upon ourselves the name he already had.  God could have given him every blessing without baptism...couldn't he? 

Why was he baptized?

It was the law.

Edited July 19, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Vanguard]

I understand the concept of being unified with God but does that unity come through a vain repitition. The act of praying in this way accomplishes nothing of itself aside from making a statement that we will follow God's will. I don't know that a pray is necessary to accept God's will. The prayer or blessing itself effects no change whatsoever. Everything could be cut except for "thy will be done," as a show of solidarity with God.

 

Thinking of the question in a slightly different way- Why is prayer useful? If God's will assuredly will be done anyway is praying simply a social or personal ritual. Are there any tangible benefits to prayer? We act like there are but what would those be?

 

The only benefit I would see is sharing a social expression and praise to God, which is great, but I don't see any reason we would expect any tangible benefit beyond what God would already provide.

 

I disagree. Hearing myself say the words "Thy will be done" after I have expressed in prayer my hopes for the day is anything but vain repetition. I believe the tangible benefit rests in my thinking of the fact that life is not primarily about getting what I want but rather that - despite my hopes - I will learn how to deal with whatever hand is dealt me as long as I retain my belief that everything given is for His purposes. For me, it requires a significant reworking of the purpose behind prayer. I no longer - at least for the time being - believe prayer is to call down the powers of heaven but rather an opportunity to understand what those powers plan on doing in my life regardless of my actions. I want those plans to be rolling out while I am in the habit of taking my feelings to the Lord on a regular basis. In this way, when negative experiences happen to me they can be understood as His will and not as a result of some arbitrary punishment or a reflection of a God who does not love me. It indeed does result in a tangible difference for my well-being.

[Stargazer]

A few years ago, Elder Dallin H. Oaks spoke regarding the elements of a Priesthood blessing, including anointing, sealing, the words of the blessing, the faith of the recipient, and the will of the Lord. Regarding the last element, he said:

 

Elder Dallin H. Oaks (April 2010) “Healing the Sick,” accessed on line at https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/healing-the-sick?lang=eng on July 18, 2015.

 

I certainly concur with this.  When it came down to cases, I blessed my wife to be healed from her cancer, but cautioned her that the blessing was conditioned upon her faith, and especially also upon the will of God.  And she has been accepting of the fact that God wants her to come home now, and not later.  As am I, although I would choose a different outcome.

[Stargazer]

I understand the concept of being unified with God but does that unity come through a vain repitition. The act of praying in this way accomplishes nothing of itself aside from making a statement that we will follow God's will. I don't know that a pray is necessary to accept God's will. The prayer or blessing itself effects no change whatsoever. Everything could be cut except for "thy will be done," as a show of solidarity with God.

 

Thinking of the question in a slightly different way- Why is prayer useful? If God's will assuredly will be done anyway is praying simply a social or personal ritual. Are there any tangible benefits to prayer? We act like there are but what would those be?

 

The only benefit I would see is sharing a social expression and praise to God, which is great, but I don't see any reason we would expect any tangible benefit beyond what God would already provide.

 

Let me tell you of an experience I once had. 

 

I was in US Army Basic Training.  We were "camping" in the field.  It was getting dark.  I sent my tent companion off to refill our canteens (because he was a dweeb and was more trouble than he was worth, or so I thought).  I got the tent erected, but during the final step, attaching the second tent rope to the tent, was stymied because I couldn't see the darned thing.  It was now full dark, we were underneath trees, and I couldn't find the darned tent rope.  I felt all around for it, but no luck.  I was getting desperate because if I couldn't get the tent erected properly then eventually I was going to get in trouble from the drill sergeant for screwing up.  Finally, I got humble and decided I needed to pray about it.  I knelt down and said a quiet prayer, confessing my high-handedness with my fellow soldier, apologizing for my pride, and asked humbly for help finding the tent rope.  Upon saying amen I opened my eyes and right in front of me, I could clearly see the tent rope in a little pile, as if there were a small light shining on it.  I gratefully scooped it up and finished putting the tent up.  I had definitely been mistreating the guy I had been assigned to tent with, being snarky and condescending, but when he returned with our canteens I stopped being a jerk to him and treated him properly.

 

The thing is, I am sure God wanted me to find the tent rope.  But He didn't do anything about helping me finding the darned thing until I asked Him for help.  I don't know why this was, exactly, but I'm sure He had a good reason for it.  Perhaps He was trying to teach me something?  I'm sure that's the case.  And I learned a lot in this experience.

If God knows the beginning and the end, if God is omniscient then when someone is ill why pray at all? What impact on the outcome can our prayers have really?

If I hadn't prayed, I wouldn't have found the tent rope until morning (or until I had gotten the drill sergeant to help me using his flashlight -- which would have earned me a butt-chewing along with it).

Edited July 19, 2015 by Stargazer

[Vanguard]

 

Let me tell you of an experience I once had. 

 

I was in US Army Basic Training.  We were "camping" in the field.  It was getting dark.  I sent my tent companion off to refill our canteens (because he was a dweeb and was more trouble than he was worth, or so I thought).  I got the tent erected, but during the final step, attaching the second tent rope to the tent, was stymied because I couldn't see the darned thing.  It was now full dark, we were underneath trees, and I couldn't find the darned tent rope.  I felt all around for it, but no luck.  I was getting desperate because if I couldn't get the tent erected properly then eventually I was going to get in trouble from the drill sergeant for screwing up.  Finally, I got humble and decided I needed to pray about it.  I knelt down and said a quiet prayer, confessing my high-handedness with my fellow soldier, apologizing for my pride, and asked humbly for help finding the tent rope.  Upon saying amen I opened my eyes and right in front of me, I could clearly see the tent rope in a little pile, as if there were a small light shining on it.  I gratefully scooped it up and finished putting the tent up.  I had definitely been mistreating the guy I had been assigned to tent with, being snarky and condescending, but when he returned with our canteens I stopped being a jerk to him and treated him properly.

 

The thing is, I am sure God wanted me to find the tent rope.  But He didn't do anything about helping me finding the darned thing until I asked Him for help.  I don't know why this was, exactly, but I'm sure He had a good reason for it.  Perhaps He was trying to teach me something?  I'm sure that's the case.  And I learned a lot in this experience.

If I hadn't prayed, I wouldn't have found the tent rope until morning (or until I had gotten the drill sergeant to help me using his flashlight -- which would have earned me a butt-chewing along with it).

 

I believe you would have found the tent rope regardless - the difference being that because you prayed beforehand you immediately recognized from whence such good fortune comes whereas had you not prayed you may well have let out a few expletives and perhaps blamed it on your companion for having left it there or some such. Over time, these kinds of conclusions can begin to make a difference in the quality of our lives. 

[Kenngo1969]

Since true prayer is not getting God to do what we want but getting ourselves to want what God will do, using that phrase (when we mean it) is both a reminder of prayer's purpose as well as a way for us to voice our faith and trust in the Being we are praying to.

 

 

... Hearing myself say the words "Thy will be done" after I have expressed in prayer my hopes for the day is anything but vain repetition. I believe the tangible benefit rests in my thinking of the fact that life is not primarily about getting what I want but rather that - despite my hopes - I will learn how to deal with whatever hand is dealt me as long as I retain my belief that everything given is for His purposes. ...

Yep.  Prayer is about aligning our will with God's, not the other way around.

[Kenngo1969]

If God knows the beginning and the end, if God is omniscient then when someone is ill why pray at all? What impact on the outcome can our prayers have really?

Prayer is about aligning our will with God's, not the other way around.

[JLHPROF]

Prayer is about aligning our will with God's, not the other way around.

 

So true.

We do not pray to change God.  We pray for God to change us and our circumstances.

[Teancum]

Prayer is a "work" that must be done to access certain blessings that God is very will to give but which are predicated upon us asking for them.

If God knows the outcome our prayers have no influence. Logic dictates as such.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Teancum

[Teancum]

Prayer is about aligning our will with God's, not the other way around.

Is it? Who says so? Jesus said ask and it shall be given. He said nothing about aligning our will with God's. He said ask.

Yet still is God omniscient? If yes he knows the end. If your child has cancer do you ask God first whether you should pray your child is healed so your will aligns? Or do your just beg God to heal your child. And if yes how can your payers or mine for your child change the outcome if God is omniscient?

[Kenngo1969]

If God knows the outcome our prayers have no influence. Logic dictates as such.

Thank you, Mr. Spock.