Why Pray "thy Will Be Done?"

[jkwilliams]

For me, it's always been about being able to accept whatever God has in mind for me, regardless of what I want, and then seeing if I could see the reasons behind what was happening. (Of course, that leaves open the question of what to do if it's God's will that I not accept His will for me.)

 

When my brothers died, I came to realize that things often have nothing to do with God's will but with human choices or random chance. Since that time, I've simply prayed that I would be able to make the best of any situation, regardless of its causes. 

[Vanguard]

For me, it's always been about being able to accept whatever God has in mind for me, regardless of what I want, and then seeing if I could see the reasons behind what was happening. (Of course, that leaves open the question of what to do if it's God's will that I not accept His will for me.)

 

When my brothers died, I came to realize that things often have nothing to do with God's will but with human choices or random chance. Since that time, I've simply prayed that I would be able to make the best of any situation, regardless of its causes. 

 

And therein lies the power of prayer. That we make the best of any situation together with our God IMO is the best stance to be striving for always. Getting hung up on whether the situation was his will, or whether this was a blessing for a good deed or prayer, or whether we are sufficiently "clean" enough to merit a blessing is largely not helpful despite our certainties about why we received or didn't receive the blessing. 

[Kenngo1969]

For me, it's always been about being able to accept whatever God has in mind for me, regardless of what I want, and then seeing if I could see the reasons behind what was happening. (Of course, that leaves open the question of what to do if it's God's will that I not accept His will for me.)

 

When my brothers died, I came to realize that things often have nothing to do with God's will but with human choices or random chance. Since that time, I've simply prayed that I would be able to make the best of any situation, regardless of its causes. 

There's a lot of wisdom in that, John.  I don't think we should attribute things to God's will that are actually the result of: (1) man's inhumanity to man; (2) Mother Nature getting into a snit; (3) hap crappening ; (4) being tested by life; and so on.  Sometimes, there's no getting around the fact that life simply sucks.  Prayer and knowing that God loves us might help us deal with the suckiness, but they're not necessarily going to make it suck less.

[Kenngo1969]

I think 3 and 4 would be the most common by far. It seems God wants us to work things out and make our own decisions instead of being told what to do. To me this also means that he is accepting of wide variability in action and belief.

I agree completely with your first and second sentences, and, with reservations, with your third.  I'm reminded of Doctrine and Covenants 58:26:

 

26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

 

I'm also reminded of this, from Elder Dallin H. Oaks's talk, "Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall." See here, last accessed today: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/10/our-strengths-can-become-our-downfall?lang=eng.  After speaking of how, while questing after knowledge is a good thing, a desire to know all (whether or not it is on a subject about which God has not yet chosen to reveal certain things) he says:

 

 

Closely related to this example is the person who has a strong desire to be led by the Spirit of the Lord but who unwisely extends that desire to the point of wanting to be led in all things. A desire to be led by the Lord is a strength, but it needs to be accompanied by an understanding that our Heavenly Father leaves many decisions for our personal choices. Personal decision making is one of the sources of the growth we are meant to experience in mortality. Persons who try to shift all decision making to the Lord and plead for revelation in every choice will soon find circumstances in which they pray for guidance and don’t receive it. For example, this is likely to occur in those numerous circumstances in which the choices are trivial or either choice is acceptable.

 

We should study things out in our minds, using the reasoning powers our Creator has placed within us. Then we should pray for guidance and act upon it if we receive it. If we do not receive guidance, we should act upon our best judgment. Persons who persist in seeking revelatory guidance on subjects on which the Lord has not chosen to direct us may concoct an answer out of their own fantasy or bias, or they may even receive an answer through the medium of false revelation. Revelation from God is a sacred reality, but like other sacred things, it must be cherished and used properly so that a great strength does not become a disabling weakness.

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[HappyJackWagon]

I agree completely with your first and second sentences, and, with reservations, with your third.  I'm reminded of Doctrine and Covenants 58:26:

So why don't you agree with my final thought that God must be comfortable in variability in action and belief. If God wants us to choose, knowing that we won't all come up with the same answers then he must be comfortable with variability.

[JLHPROF]

This is my point. We pray for God to change the circumstances we find undesireable and replace them with better circumstances. The point is God does not change our circumstances because we ask for them. His will must be done and we're NOT going to change him so why bother with the prayer to begin with? His will WILL be done either way.

 

Not necessarily.  You are assuming our situations/circumstances are in line with his will.  God allows us agency.

Sometimes God's only will is that we ask for our circumstances to change.

[Avatar4321]

I don't agree with this at all. Blessings are given regardless of the whether the individual is under the influence of the spirit. The individual's spirituality has nothing to do with it. Those who we might consider to be detestable morally are blessed on a daily basis from their God and many times in ways far greater than those who we might consider spiritually upright. The difference is that the "detestables" are more likely not to conclude that indeed these blessing came from a loving God thereby denying themselves the opportunity to grow closer to him.

"Let the Elders either obtain the power of God to heal the sick, or let them cease to administer the form without the power." (Quoted by Joseph Noble, See Juvenile Instructor, 15:112)

I don't think we should be administering blessings I'd we aren't prepared. Some times we need to fast and pray to obtain the necessary power and spirit of our office.

[Kenngo1969]

So why don't you agree with my final thought that God must be comfortable in variability in action and belief. If God wants us to choose, knowing that we won't all come up with the same answers then he must be comfortable with variability.

Do yourself a favor: Don't try to pick bones with people who say that, largely, they agree with you.  Save the bone-picking for major disagreements.  (Just kidding; I know you're just asking ...)  I don't know that I do disagree with your final thought, but I also don't know that I can put my finger on why I might have reservations about it.  I do believe, though, that God is capable of working through people of varying religious persuasions and perspectives: our job, whatever our religious persuasion might be, is to respond the best we know how to whatever light we've been given, and I believe God is pleased when we do that, whether we're Mormon or Baptist or Lutheran or Hindu or a devotee of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[thatjimguy]

Or is the act simply for our own benefit to remind us that we may not receive the blessing or answer we're desperate for so that we can feel good about not receiving what we feel we need?

 

I think this fits it. Since we talk a lot about positive thinking in the church, this actually makes sense.

[Stargazer]

I believe you would have found the tent rope regardless - the difference being that because you prayed beforehand you immediately recognized from whence such good fortune comes whereas had you not prayed you may well have let out a few expletives and perhaps blamed it on your companion for having left it there or some such. Over time, these kinds of conclusions can begin to make a difference in the quality of our lives.

Of course I would have found the rope eventually! The slumped tent might not have even been noticed by the drill sergeant in the dark, or in the morning. The point was, I wanted it right then, and I asked for help finding it. And I got the help. You're entitled to believe otherwise, of course.

But I expected this. If you didn't experience it yourself, then all you can do is attempt to find alternate explanations that you hope don't involve divine intervention. But I was there. I couldn't see a freaking thing in the dark, not even my own hands in front of my face, and after I saw the tent rope and picked it up it didn't emit any more light and I installed it on the tent by feel. Look, the darned rope seemed to emit a faint enough light to see it. If you don't want to accept that, I can't make you.

And it never occurred to me to blame it on my companion.

I do think quality of life can be impacted adversely if one ignores the promptings of the Spirit. Several years ago I left a valuable object in my car overnight. Just as I was laying down to sleep I had a sudden impulse thought, that I needed to get dressed and get the object out of the car (parked on the street). I ignored it -- I had left the object in the car lots of times before, so what's the big deal now? Next morning I found the car stolen and when it was recovered the object was gone and was not recovered. You would say that the Spirit had nothing to do with it. I would counter that that was the first and last time I had an impulse like that. Like I said: you weren't there.

Over time I've had lots of little experiences that have confirmed my perception of divine interest in my situation. That was for me.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

I believe you would have found the tent rope regardless - the difference being that because you prayed beforehand you immediately recognized from whence such good fortune comes whereas had you not prayed you may well have let out a few expletives and perhaps blamed it on your companion for having left it there or some such. Over time, these kinds of conclusions can begin to make a difference in the quality of our lives.

Here's another one for you. Especially in light of some people mocking prayers when attempting to find lost keys.

My wife mislaid her keyring. It had house keys, car keys and even other people's house keys (she cleaned houses on the side for a little business). After a few days she couldn't find them and finally made the keys a specific point in our morning prayers. We both left to go to work, with her taking a spare set of house keys so she could get in later (she came home before me). When she came home from work and went to the bedroom there were her set of keys laying in the exact center of the bed, on the bedspread.

Now, she had made the bed that morning, and she darned well didn't put her own keys on the bed for her to "discover" later. The room was locked. Nobody else other than me had a key. And I didn't find them and put them there, either.

So what is it? The keys had a will of their own and teleported to the bed? Either my wife or I suffer from multiple personalities, and one of our tricksy selves did it just for fun? Please insert your alternative explanation here:

Personally, I am pretty darned certain that the Spirit put the keys on the bed. There is no other rational explanation.

[HappyJackWagon]

Here's another one for you. Especially in light of some people mocking prayers when attempting to find lost keys.

My wife mislaid her keyring. It had house keys, car keys and even other people's house keys (she cleaned houses on the side for a little business). After a few days she couldn't find them and finally made the keys a specific point in our morning prayers. We both left to go to work, with her taking a spare set of house keys so she could get in later (she came home before me). When she came home from work and went to the bedroom there were her set of keys laying in the exact center of the bed, on the bedspread.

Now, she had made the bed that morning, and she darned well didn't put her own keys on the bed for her to "discover" later. The room was locked. Nobody else other than me had a key. And I didn't find them and put them there, either.

So what is it? The keys had a will of their own and teleported to the bed? Either my wife or I suffer from multiple personalities, and one of our tricksy selves did it just for fun? Please insert your alternative explanation here:

Personally, I am pretty darned certain that the Spirit put the keys on the bed. There is no other rational explanation.

I'm glad you found the keys but ... I'm curious why this need would be fulfilled in a miraculous way while other less miraculous needs are ignored. It's hard to accept that the spirit physically placed keys in the middle of the bed. Spirits don't even have physical hands. Did it go all Patrick Swayzee on those keys

[Avatar4321]

And what less miraculous way could it have happened? Did someone break into their home for the sole purpose of putting the keys on the bed?

I've had a similar incident with my Bluetooth. I lost it somewhere and couldn't find it and I needed it to keep in touch with my wife. Looked everywhere for it and couldn't find it. Then I packed a bag to go see my wife. I was extremely worried.

I prayed about it and decided that I couldn't do any more until I came back from visiting my wife. Imagine my surprise when I unpacked and found the Bluetooth I did not pack in my bag.

May not be important to some but it was very important for communicating with my wife at the time.

[HappyJackWagon]

And what less miraculous way could it have happened? Did someone break into their home for the sole purpose of putting the keys on the bed?

I've had a similar incident with my Bluetooth. I lost it somewhere and couldn't find it and I needed it to keep in touch with my wife. Looked everywhere for it and couldn't find it. Then I packed a bag to go see my wife. I was extremely worried.

I prayed about it and decided that I couldn't do any more until I came back from visiting my wife. Imagine my surprise when I unpacked and found the Bluetooth I did not pack in my bag.

May not be important to some but it was very important for communicating with my wife at the time.

We lose and find things all the time without divine intervention. I don't know the comings and goings of the household to know whether or not it is possible that a small child may have hid them and then placed them on the bed. Or maybe they were folded up in the blankets so when the bed was made they were there. Don't know, don't really care.

 

I'm seriously trying to wrap my head around the concept that God would intervene in our lives to physically place keys on a bed when duplicates of those keys could have been made at walmart for $5. Simultaneously God is not intervening in ways that have major impact in the lives of millions of people. I just don't understand that. It seems to be the definition of capreciousness. A capricious God would be hard to love.

[Avatar4321]

I see tender mercies not capriciouness

[Gray]

We lose and find things all the time without divine intervention. I don't know the comings and goings of the household to know whether or not it is possible that a small child may have hid them and then placed them on the bed. Or maybe they were folded up in the blankets so when the bed was made they were there. Don't know, don't really care.

 

I'm seriously trying to wrap my head around the concept that God would intervene in our lives to physically place keys on a bed when duplicates of those keys could have been made at walmart for $5. Simultaneously God is not intervening in ways that have major impact in the lives of millions of people. I just don't understand that. It seems to be the definition of capreciousness. A capricious God would be hard to love.

 

Yes, it's very hard to see God intervening to help wealthy people find our small precious possessions, but then not intervening, for example, on behalf of a child who is being sexually abused. 

[HappyJackWagon]

I see tender mercies not capriciouness

Tender mercies for the children God really loves? Application of these "tender mercies" is totally capricious.

[Calm]

We don't usually know the intimate details of the lives that appear to us beyond tragic.  We don't know if God has offered significantly more tender mercies to help them in surviving their ordeals.  We can only view what is happening to us and attempt to understand it as best as possible.

 

There is no inherent implication in a belief that God has granted us a tender mercy means that he loves us more.  I would think the majority of people who see these kinds of things in their lives assume that this is happening in everyone's lives even when we can't see or understand how that can be.

[SmileyMcGee]

Prayer is about aligning our will with God's, not the other way around.

Then what's the point of asking for blessings in prayers or giving a priesthood blessing. If Gods will is going to be done regardless then what the point of asking or blessing?

[ksfisher]

Then what's the point of asking for blessings in prayers or giving a priesthood blessing. If Gods will is going to be done regardless then what the point of asking or blessing?

 

Sometimes the answers to questions are found in the asking.  Also, dialogue is a two way street.  How can we expect God to open his heart to us if we won't open ours to him.  And if nothing else I believe our Father in Heaven enjoys hearing from us.

[Kenngo1969]

I'm glad you found the keys but ... I'm curious why this need would be fulfilled in a miraculous way while other less miraculous needs are ignored. ...

See, that's what you're rather hung up on here, you JackWagon!  (What?  Oh.  Sorry; couldn't resist! ) it's not that they're ignored, and it's not that, "Well, I always knew that Heavenly Dad loves you best!", as one might say in a fit of "spiritual sibling rivalry."  It's that God has his own purposes for granting or for delaying (or even for withholding) blessings, even if we don't understand them.  I agree: a lot of the things that happen in this Second Act wouldn't make sense to me, either, if I didn't know that there was a pre-mortal First Act and that there will be a post-mortal Third Act. The reason why the whole play doesn't make sense is because we only know about the Second Act: We can't remember the First Act, and the Third Act hasn't been presented yet.

 

And in the case of Stargazer's wife, a lot of other people's lives would have been affected had she not found those keys: that's a lot of business for a lot of locksmiths.  That probably had a lot to do with the fact that she found them.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

Tender mercies for the children God really loves? Application of these "tender mercies" is totally capricious.

To the mortal, finite mind, perhaps.  I love the hymn God Moves in a Mysterious Way:

 

 

God moves in a mysterious way, His wonders to perform.

He plants His footsteps in the sea and rides upon the storm.

Ye fearful Saints, fresh courage take; the clouds ye so much dread

Are big with mercy and shall break in blessings on your head.

His purposes will ripen fast, unfolding every hour.

The bud may have a bitter taste, but sweet will be the flower.

Blind unbelief is sure to err and scan His works in vain.

God is His own interpreter, and He will make it plain.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

Then what's the point of asking for blessings in prayers or giving a priesthood blessing. If Gods will is going to be done regardless then what the point of asking or blessing?

Sometimes, the blessing is contingent on the asking, and sometimes God wants us to acknowledge that we're willing to do (and to accept) His will.  I have to leave for work.  More later.

[Calm]

Then what's the point of asking for blessings in prayers or giving a priesthood blessing. If Gods will is going to be done regardless then what the point of asking or blessing?

What is the point of doing math homework if the teacher already knows the answer and nothing we do is going to change that?

[Kenngo1969]

What is the point of doing math homework if the teacher already knows the answer and nothing we do is going to change that?

Great analogy.  I like it.  We are, after all, here to learn.