jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I think it's supposed to be hard to leave the LDS church. I know several people who would leave but are afraid of the social and family consequences. I don't blame them.
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Monitors..close this thread so we can leave Kate Kelly alone! May Kate Kelly have the same respite that she affords the Church and its members and as much as she seems to want, as evidenced by her actions. 3
Popular Post sheilauk Posted July 18, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 18, 2015 I haven't heard too many or any stories of people who were ostracized for leaving the Methodist church in the same manor as leaving the LDS church. People may not like to hear it, but many of the stories of exmormons have very similar family issues as what I have spoke of previously. The "you're either with us or against us" story is repeated over and over. I don't consider myself ostrazised but maybe I have been without me knowing about it! I'm used to leaving people behind when I change job, home, school, church. In the past, I tried to stay in touch - never works, so now I don't bother. I left Methodism to join the LDS. Several people warned me against the missionaries when they realised that I was meeting with them and I rarely see my old friends - though we chat politely if we meet in the street. When you move way from something - church, work, school, move house - it is incredibly hard to stay friends with people in the old thing because you no longer have things in common with them and they distrust you. I imagine that they feel abandoned and hurt as much as the person who left feels hurt. The more passionate people are about the thing, the more they will stay away from you. 5
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I think it's supposed to be hard to leave the LDS church. I know several people who would leave but are afraid of the social and family consequences. I don't blame them. Those same pressures that exist any devout family and community to which one might belong. 1
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Those same pressures that exist any devout family and community to which one might belong.As I said, the difficulty is in direct proportion to the investment.
bluebell Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Monitors..close this thread so we can leave Kate Kelly alone!She doesn't want to be left alone. If she did she would not still be publishing articles with the church as the main topic. As long as she keeps talking about the church and its members, members have a reasonable right to discuss and respond. 4
Popular Post ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 18, 2015 The funny thing about these accusations is that as I have sat in ward council meetings over the years the discussion has never been on how to "sock it to them" and ostracize them but rather how to reach out to them in friendship and brotherhood. 6
Kenngo1969 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) The funny thing about these accusations is that as I have sat in ward council meetings over the years the discussion has never been on how to "sock it to them" and ostracize them but rather how to reach out to them in friendship and brotherhood.Yep. And with absolutely no offense intended toward SDC, Jeanne, jkwilliams (while I realize some, perhaps many, try to do this for the wrong reasons, with strings attached, et cetera), sometimes, trying to fellowship disaffected and former members is the rough equivalent of trying to hug a porcupine. Edited July 18, 2015 by Kenngo1969 2
Calm Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 It is incredibly hard to stay friends with people in the old thing because you no longer have things in common with them and they distrust you. I imagine that they feel abandoned and hurt as much as the person who left feels hurt. The more passionate people are about the thing, the more they will stay away from you.And in the past if family was split over commitments, it could well mean hardship or even destruction of the family. Some cultural aspects of this need to maintain deep bonds continue even when the physical and economic realities have changed. 1
Jeanne Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 She doesn't want to be left alone. If she did she would not still be publishing articles with the church as the main topic.As long as she keeps talking about the church and its members, members have a reasonable right to discuss and respond.And all of us here are probably giving her exactly what she wants.
MorningStar Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Well if you sympathize with Kate Kelly, why do you care if people are giving her what she wants? She chose to make herself a public figure and she doesn't expect anyone not to talk about her.
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 And all of us here are probably giving her exactly what she wants. Then there should be no complants 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Her leaders made the right decision. I just hope more spiritual women don't follow her to the dark side.
MorningStar Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 You can leave Kate Kelly, but you can never leave Kate Kelly alone. 1
Jeanne Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Well if you sympathize with Kate Kelly, why do you care if people are giving her what she wants? She chose to make herself a public figure and she doesn't expect anyone not to talk about her. Actually, I sympathize with anyone who does not get a voice ...hers..yours..mine.. But those who respond with great disdain are just walking in the same shoes and I thought Mormons were more about example. See, I wish we could just leave everybody alone..
JAHS Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Actually, I sympathize with anyone who does not get a voice ...hers..yours..mine.. But those who respond with great disdain are just walking in the same shoes and I thought Mormons were more about example. See, I wish we could just leave everybody alone..But this is just one discussion board where only a relatively few members and nonmembers are discussing it. Our responses are limited to this board and the few people who read this thread. We are not submitting multiple news articles about her or having press conferences that are being read or seen by thousands of people. We are simply discussing it amoung ourselves so we can make some sense out of what is happening.
Avatar4321 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Actually, I sympathize with anyone who does not get a voice ...hers..yours..mine.. But those who respond with great disdain are just walking in the same shoes and I thought Mormons were more about example. See, I wish we could just leave everybody alone..How can you possibly conclude that she doesn't have a voice when we are having a discussion on what she has said? 3
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Actually, I sympathize with anyone who does not get a voice ...hers..yours..mine.. But those who respond with great disdain are just walking in the same shoes and I thought Mormons were more about example. See, I wish we could just leave everybody alone.. And basically that is the way it works until people like Kate Kelly try to impose their will on others. Like you "I wish we could just leave everybody alone.."
sheilauk Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 And in the past if family was split over commitments, it could well mean hardship or even destruction of the family. Some cultural aspects of this need to maintain deep bonds continue even when the physical and economic realities have changed.Indeed. Its a trait throughout. In my father's family, there was some sort of argument and my aunt left the family home, taking valuable income with her since only she and my grandmother were working. She left two siblings, who were plunged into poverty. My father rarely spoke to her again. I only met her at my grandmother's funeral, when i was 18 years old and that was the only time. My father continues to put great store in family loyalty. I feel one problem is that people expect far too much of the Saints. We are not perfect people, we are all struggling with life and I really don't think its fair to expect more of them than any other group/Christian etc. All anyone can expect of anyone is that they do their best and this is my biggest beef with Kate Kelly, OW etc. They want perfection on Earth and they are never going to find it. And, in all the organisations I have belonged to, the LDS is one of the least sexist. (Kate should try being a female barrister in the UK). I fear that though Kate Kelly may feel happier now, it will not last because her expectations are so high. I also hope that I'm wrong. 2
Calm Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Actually, I sympathize with anyone who does not get a voice ...hers..yours..mine..How has she not got a voice? She is probably one of the most heard in the history of the Church given the amount she has been printed and quoted in newsarticles, podcasts and other interviews. 1
JAHS Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 How has she not got a voice? She is probably one of the most heard in the history of the Church given the amount she has been printed and quoted in newsarticles, podcasts and other interviews.I think Jeanne wants Kate's voice to be heard by the Church leaders. Oh wait a minute ...her voice was heard and the answer was No. 2
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 And basically that is the way it works until people like Kate Kelly try to impose their will on others. Like you "I wish we could just leave everybody alone.."I still don't understand how protesting is trying to impose someone's will on others.
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 We are simply discussing it amoung ourselves so we can make some sense out of what is happening. and she deserves no attention because nothing she says is important. I think Jeanne wants Kate's voice to be heard by the Church leaders. Oh wait a minute ...her voice was heard and the answer was No. and what a waste of time, there are more important questions for church leaders.
Storm Rider Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Actually, I sympathize with anyone who does not get a voice ...hers..yours..mine.. But those who respond with great disdain are just walking in the same shoes and I thought Mormons were more about example. See, I wish we could just leave everybody alone.. I appreciate your sympathy for others, but I am not sure how you think we should treat Ms. Kelly. She has been an aggressive, vocal opponent of the Church of Jesus Christ. She has never lost her voice; to the contrary, she has had her story printed in newspapers and magazines around the world. The voice that was missing in every one of those stories is that of the Church. Not a word on her excommunication and the reasons for it; no rebuttal to all the allegations made by Ms. Kelly; in fact, all we have gotten is silence from the Church. Those who strive to be seen as a victim, particularly women, and especially when they are they aggressors and anything but a victim, do not help make women appear strong, independent, citizens. Portraying oneself as a victim and allow others to be a victim is not helpful to any cause. Ms. Kelly is not a victim and never was. Ms. Kelly obviously has a voice and takes every opportunity to share it. 4
Scott Lloyd Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Actually, I sympathize with anyone who does not get a voice ...hers..yours..mine.. But those who respond with great disdain are just walking in the same shoes and I thought Mormons were more about example. See, I wish we could just leave everybody alone..Dan Peterson has on occasion quoted a French saying, something along the lines of "This animal is extremely vicious; when attacked, it defends itself."
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