jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Presenting or prolonging discussion about a non-consenting individual in a toxic environment is not a good thing either. But you're right that this is a derail. That was not my intent. I intended only a one-time notice about why I will be guarded about interacting with you going forward.You mean something like participating in a thread about Kate Kelly? But OK, I will refrain from discussing you elsewhere. Edited July 18, 2015 by jkwilliams
Scott Lloyd Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 You mean something like participating in a thread about Kate Kelly? But OK, I will refrain from discussing you elsewhere.Unlike MDB, this is not a toxic environment. But thank you for that pledge.
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Unlike MDB, this is not a toxic environment. But thank you for that pledge.I would imagine Kate Kelly would find this place toxic.
bluebell Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 You mean something like participating in a thread about Kate Kelly? I think we can all agree that there is a difference between publishing an article and distributing it far and wide and having a discussion with a few people on a message board. When you talk to the public it's reasonable for the audience to discuss and share their opinions on what you have said and your credentials for saying it. That's different than going behind someone's back and talking about them to people who were never invited to be a part of the discussion. 2
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Your leaving Methodism would be an interesting story. Just a few questions if you will.1. Did you have to submit a letter to your pastor to indicate your intentions?2. Did your pastor have you wait 30 days to make sure you were not acting hastily and then call you to make sure that it was your intention?3. Did a relative call to say they were never speaking to you again for leading your family away from Methodism?4. (only if you're married) Did your wife NEVER hear from any of her relief society "friends" again because of her/your choice?5. Did your children's best friend's parents disallow them to come over to spend the night ever again? (explain that one to your 10 and 12 year old)6. Did your brothers say, "I feel so sorry for you" because of your decision to leave? 1) Is that also the procedure for the Methodists?2) A good practice to make sure someone is not acting in the heat of the moment, wouldn't you think?3) Sorry for your rude, ill mannered relatives.4) If that is the case it was also rude and ill-mannered. It might be interesting to hear their story.5) Again ill-mannered and rude. It would also be interesting to hear their reasoning.6) Seems a reasonable position for a person who is a sincere believer. It probably could have been expressed differently but was probably from sincere concern. How did you approach your exit? Was it quietly, without fanfare and animus or was it with recriminations to those not smart enough to see what you saw? Before your questions can be answered there are a few variables that need examined. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I would imagine Kate Kelly would find this place toxic.Kate Kelly finds the Church of Jesus Christ toxic -- or so it would appear. 1
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Your leaving Methodism would be an interesting story. Just a few questions if you will.I once saw a therapist who could not understand why I was struggling so much with the religious change. He said, I am Methodist, and my wife is Presbyterian, so we go to her church. What is the big deal?
why me Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I agree, but I didn't want to add Satan into the mix because that tends to stir up the mockers.That is because the mockers don't want to recognize the role of satan in undermining the church and turning the hearts of faithful members into enemies of the church. The pattern has been the same since the church was organized. What is amazing for the haters is the love that they had for their fellow brothers and sisters and the love they had for the church. Not to mention the many times standing at the podium giving their testimonies with tears of joy. Or how heavenly father helped them when in a crisis or having the holy ghost with them. How to understand the abrupt about turn now? It is even a puzzle for those who are doing the apostate routine.
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I would imagine Kate Kelly would find this place toxic. Different POV. Odd how that works.
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I think we can all agree that there is a difference between publishing an article and distributing it far and wide and having a discussion with a few people on a message board. When you talk to the public it's reasonable for the audience to discuss and share their opinions on what you have said and your credentials for saying it. That's different than going behind someone's back and talking about them to people who were never invited to be a part of the discussion. It isn't going behind someone's back if they can see it.
bluebell Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 It isn't going behind someone's back if they can see it.It is if you do it without telling them you are doing it and you are doing it in a different venue than the original conversation took place so they might not be aware it's happening.
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 How to understand the abrupt about turn now? It is even a puzzle for those who are doing the apostate routine.The dust has settled somewhat, and she has changed her mind. It's not puzzling for this apostate.
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 It is if you do it without telling them you are doing it and you are doing it in a different venue than the original conversation took place so they might not be aware it's happening.Well, I said I won't do that again. Can we end the derail now?
why me Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Unlike MDB, this is not a toxic environment. Over on MDB one must do something extremely terrible to get banned. It is an open microphone. However, on this board there are bannings and people being put on limited for various of reasons. I do believe that this board could be even less toxic if the limiting process would have a time limit. As it is, the limiting status can last a lifetime with no mercy in site. That can create a little of a toxic mixture. I am basing my remarks on a poster's agony of being on limited for quite some time. He gave a very heartfelt post about it and he did seem to convey how he has struggled with it. I had this feeling that he felt a little toxic about his length of time on limited. Edited July 18, 2015 by why me
bluebell Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 So, the consensus is that she's a bad seed. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think she's a bad seed. I think she's not handling not getting her way very well. 3
bluebell Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Well, I said I won't do that again. Can we end the derail now? Of course! But don't say you want to end it and then keep talking about it. 1
why me Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The dust has settled somewhat, and she has changed her mind. It's not puzzling for this apostate.I wasn't addressing the kate issue but how apostates can be so hateful toward the organization that they once loved and bore testimony over. The MO has not changed since the church began. Some of the biggest haters have been former members throughout church history. 2
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I wasn't addressing the kate issue but how apostates can be so hateful toward the organization that they once loved and bore testimony over. The MO has not changed since the church began. Some of the biggest haters have been former members throughout church history.In my experience, it's in direct proportion to how invested they were and how painful it was to leave. It's like any other relationship. You can handle being hurt by a casual acquaintance, but it's much harder when it's your spouse.
sdc999 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 How did you approach your exit? Was it quietly, without fanfare and animus or was it with recriminations to those not smart enough to see what you saw? Before your questions can be answered there are a few variables that need examined.Quietly - At First. But I do admit once the attacks (yes, I will call them attacks) upon my wife and children began, I was glad to give as much if not more than what I got. It's incredibly hard to see your children cry because their best friends are being kept from them purposely. We have seen and sat down with a couple of those kids (in their late teen and 20's now)and yes, they were told explicitly that they were no longer allowed to be around 'those' people. It's incredibly hard to see your wife depressed because she thought the friendships she had were genuine and not just for show on Sunday. It's incredibly hard to see your wife's own mother completely disassociate herself from her daughter and her grandkids. (again, explain that to the grandkids) And it's funny, we never left Christ. We continued on attending church and raising our kids in Godly way. Were my actions Christlike at all times? - No. Not even all times on this board. I'm not necessarily proud of everything I have done, but I will defend my family. And I can and will be aggressive when doing so. And how we were treated was not just by some rogue members. They were members who had 'learned' traits. Learned from the LDS church. Albeit, that may not be what the LDS church intends, but, it is what these members took away from the LDS church and it's teachings.
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Quietly - At First. But I do admit once the attacks (yes, I will call them attacks) upon my wife and children began, I was glad to give as much if not more than what I got. It's incredibly hard to see your children cry because their best friends are being kept from them purposely. We have seen and sat down with a couple of those kids (in their late teen and 20's now)and yes, they were told explicitly that they were no longer allowed to be around 'those' people. It's incredibly hard to see your wife depressed because she thought the friendships she had were genuine and not just for show on Sunday. It's incredibly hard to see your wife's own mother completely disassociate herself from her daughter and her grandkids. (again, explain that to the grandkids) And it's funny, we never left Christ. We continued on attending church and raising our kids in Godly way. Were my actions Christlike at all times? - No. Not even all times on this board. I'm not necessarily proud of everything I have done, but I will defend my family. And I can and will be aggressive when doing so. And how we were treated was not just by some rogue members. They were members who had 'learned' traits. Learned from the LDS church. Albeit, that may not be what the LDS church intends, but, it is what these members took away from the LDS church and it's teachings.And how exactly is that any different from leaving Methodism?
sdc999 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 And how exactly is that any different from leaving Methodism? I haven't heard too many or any stories of people who were ostracized for leaving the Methodist church in the same manor as leaving the LDS church. People may not like to hear it, but many of the stories of exmormons have very similar family issues as what I have spoke of previously. The "you're either with us or against us" story is repeated over and over.
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I haven't heard too many or any stories of people who were ostracized for leaving the Methodist church in the same manor as leaving the LDS church. People may not like to hear it, but many of the stories of exmormons have very similar family issues as what I have spoke of previously. The "you're either with us or against us" story is repeated over and over.I totally understand. I went through pretty much the same thing. Not fun.
Calm Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I have yet to hear any Mormon father say he would rather have a young man rape his daughter than baptize her. Unfortunately I have heard of that in reverse.It is wrong when and wherever it happens, but from what I've seen in any situation most is family dynamics or at worst local neighbourhood dynamics as opposed to a particular faith (as other faith members have significantly different reactions). Edited July 18, 2015 by calmoriah 2
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I haven't heard too many or any stories of people who were ostracized for leaving the Methodist church in the same manor as leaving the LDS church. People may not like to hear it, but many of the stories of exmormons have very similar family issues as what I have spoke of previously. The "you're either with us or against us" story is repeated over and over. My late wife's great grandparents had their oldest daughter stolen from them(never to see her again) when they joined the LDS church and sailed for America to join with the saints. I have heard many stories of people being booted from the family and disowned when they joined the church. Your experiences are reprehensible but are not confined to the LDS Church.
Jeanne Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Now if we could only encourage her to leave the Chirch alone...Funny but when I left Methodism I never felt the need to denounce it.Monitors..close this thread so we can leave Kate Kelly alone!
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