Kate Kelly Now Encouraging Others To Leave The Lds Church

[Teancum]

I can't argue with that or its opposite: If the church sparks joy in you, stay with your head held high.

John's one sentence sums it up well. Of course for those who dogmatically KNOW the LDS church is gods only truth I understand this is tough to get your head around.

[Teancum]

Reassesng one's feeling is one thing, but to make such accusations and encourage others to leave is going too far.

Why? Why is it so bad if someone can't make the church work to leave it. I understand the true believer thinks this little teeny tiny church is Gods one true church but really.....that is highly unlikely. But even if by a very small chance it is why stay if you are miserable in it,

[Teancum]

So we went through an in-some-ways painful episode with her trying to impose her will on the Church, and, as it turns out, she would have been happier on the outside all along. I think there's a lesson to be drawn from that.

So what in your view is the lesson?

[Robert F. Smith]

Obviously she doesn't believe anymore. But that's probably a pretty natural reaction to being excommunicated

Seems like a non sequitur, Gray.  I just don't think that one necessarily follows the other.  She appears to have the same narcissistic faith she had before being ex'd.

[Bobbieaware]

I have no way of knowing the rates of disaffection for any group so I can't speak to that. But in my interactions I am continually shocked by the calib er of former church leaders among the disaffected. I think it's a major problem that people who have previously given their ALL to the church are choosing to leave despite the negative social/family stigma that comes with it.

 

One might suggest that those people were never truly converted or didn't have a strong testimony but I would argue against that all day because I know many of these people to have been the most devout, thoughtful, service oriented members of the church. Now it feels like the church is willing to write them off as a "sad but acceptable loss" because the ratio's are ok.

In the day when the wheat and the tares of the Church have fully matured, I'm fully expecting at least half of the active membership will apostatize. So whatever the number is of members who are.leaving now, it's just the beginning -- a harbinger of things to come. For those who are acquainted with the scriptures, member disaffections -- even large numbers of them -- should come as no surprise but be calmly understood as the natural result of the Lord's winnowing process. When the Savior said, "many are called but few are chosen," he meant just that. And when he said, "strait is the gate and narrow the way, and few there be that find it," he meant that too.

But all is not lost, for those who fail the Lord's preordained tests of faith will eventually return, but they will inherit a heavenly mansion in a lkingdom that is of lesser glory than they otherwise would have received if they hadn't succumbed to the temptation to trust in the arm of flesh rather than learning to trust the voice of the Spirit (revelation). In the eternal world, those who fail the test of faith and leave the Church will, by-and-by, eventually be reconverted and receive the maximum possible degree of joy and happiness they are capable of receiving (see D$C 76; 88; and 138). So except for the most malignant and irredeemable of apostates -- the sons of perdition -- there will be an eventual happy ending for all God's children in the varying degrees of heavenly glory.

[jkwilliams]

So, the consensus is that she's a bad seed.

[JAHS]

Why? Why is it so bad if someone can't make the church work to leave it. I understand the true believer thinks this little teeny tiny church is Gods one true church but really.....that is highly unlikely. But even if by a very small chance it is why stay if you are miserable in it,

If one is miserable then of course they can and maybe should leave. The problem is advertising your misery to other church members and encouraging them to leave, when if they would have stayed a little longer might have grown a stronger testimony and found joy in the church.

Edited July 18, 2015 by JAHS

[rodheadlee]

So, the consensus is that she's a bad seed.

No, just rocky soil.

[Scott Lloyd]

So what in your view is the lesson?

If you must have an identity crisis, don't seek to involve millions of people in the process.

[Bobbieaware]

I don't believe this. There are plenty of former LDS you have gone on to live peaceful, moral, upstanding lives full of faith in Jesus Christ. The caricature of ex-LDS as demon possessed drunkards whos sole focus and obsession is with trying to destroy the church is something that should be left to die.

The degree of hostility found in former members who have rejected the restored gospel will be found to be in direct proportion to genuineness of the testimonies they possessed while they were yet active in the Church. There are many former members of the LDS Church who had minimal (if any) manifestations of the Holy Ghost witnessing to them that the Church is true. So for some former members it's easy come, easy go because they barely moved away from the neutral ground of which Joseph Smith spoke. But for those who have had mighty manifestations of the Spirut bearing testimony to their spirits that the Church is verily true, they have moved much further away from the neutral ground and have much more to lose. Semi-converts and those have have received a sure witness are in separate categories.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[why me]

So, the consensus is that she's a bad seed.

No, I don't think so. I remember when kate came on the scene. Many members of this board were supporting her and some of these members of the board were active lds members. True, these people were taken in by her. They actually believed that she was a committed member who just wants to inact change in a benign way. And I do believe that many members were taken in by her in general. But her website gave it all away because it stated that women must have the priesthood. In other words, the church was controlled by human beings and not god. She was an agitator who attempted to hoodwink faithful lds women to her cause. She failed.

 

But she is not a bad seed. Just misguided. And now most members of this board can see her for what she was.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

The degree of hostility found in former members who have rejected the restored gospel will be found to be in direct proportion to genuineness of the testimonies they possessed while they were yet active in the Church. There are many former members of the LDS who had minimal manifestations of the Holy Ghost witnessing to them that the Church is true. So for some former members it's easy come, easy go because they were barely moved away from the neutral ground of which Joseph Smith spoke. But for those who have had mighty manifestations of the Spirut bearing testimony to their spirits that the Church is verily true, they have moved much further away from the neutral ground and have much more to lose. Semi-converts and those have have received a sure witness are in separate categories.

I admire that you stated your opinion with such surety. 

[why me]

The degree of hostility found in former members who have rejected the restored gospel will be found to be in direct proportion to genuineness of the testimonies they possessed while they were yet active in the Church. There are many former members of the LDS who had minimal manifestations of the Holy Ghost witnessing to them that the Church is true. So for some former members it's easy come, easy go because they were barely moved away from the neutral ground of which Joseph Smith spoke. But for those who have had mighty manifestations of the Spirut bearing testimony to their spirits that the Church is verily true, they have moved much further away from the neutral ground and have much more to lose. Semi-converts and those have have received a sure witness are in separate categories.

I think that you are missing an important factor: the role of satan in their hostility. It is quite amazing really just how many exmembers behave to the lds church, dating back to the time of joseph smith. The MO has not changed at all. And there must be a good reason for that. Strangely, if one would ask these members when they were active would they ever see themselves behaving toward the church as they now do, all would most likely say no and cringe in horror. And yet....

[Teancum]

Given that the board where you did that has a reputation as a cesspool of defamation and vile slander of the Church, its leaders and some of its other members, and given that contributors to this board have, without their consent -- or even their awareness, in some cases -- become the subjects of discussion on that board, I think people posting here should be warned that you have taken part in that to some degree.

Hmmmmmm. Really? If you are worried go there and defend yourself and the church, No protection though there like you may get here.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Teancum

[Bobbieaware]

I admire that you stated your opinion with such surety.

What other answer is there? The higher one climbs, spiritually speaking, the farther they have to fall. That's why there are sons of perdition: they knew for a surety the Gospel is true and were valiant in that testimony, but then they turn to the dark side and, as the scriptures say, sin against the light of God at noonday. You will have to admit there's a big difference between a semi-convert who leaves the Church and a son of perdition., and that difference is found in the degree of conversion of each prior to leaving the Church.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[Teancum]

If one is miserable then of course they can and maybe should leave. The problem is advertising your misery to other church members and encouraging them to leave, when if they would have stayed a little longer might have grown a stronger testimony and found joy in the church.

Why? Is the LDS church off limits from those that the church has given the proverbial boot? Is the LDS church somehow more special than other organizations? Look I knew a while back Kate Kelly was headed for excommunication. I know what the church is that I belong too and understand it well. Pubilically and vocally oppose it and you will get the boot. so the church kicked her out. Why the heck should she have any constraints about her thoughts as to whether people should stay or go?

[Teancum]

If you must have an identity crisis, don't seek to involve millions of people in the process.

So you think Ms. Kelly had an identity crisis?

[Teancum]

What other answer is there? The higher one climbs, spiritually speaking, the farther they have to fall. That's why there are sons of perdition: they knew for a surety the Gospel is true and were valiant in that testimony, but then they turn to the dark side and, as the scriptures say, sin against the light of God at noonday. You will have to admit there's a big difference between a semi- convert who leaves the Church and a son of perdition., and that difference is found in the degree of conversion of each prior to leaving the Church.

Oh there are lots of other answers but they migh cause your mind to explode if you looked at them with an open one.

[Scott Lloyd]

So you think Ms. Kelly had an identity crisis?

That's what I get from her quoted comments. Your perception might be different. Can't help that.

[Storm Rider]

I must have missed something, but does Ms. Kate ever talk about being a disciple of Christ and following him?  The Savior seems to have been put aside in favor of Kate's new god of feminism.  She is not the first one to find a new god and she will not be the last; she is one that has followed in the same path of abandoning the God of Israel in favor of creating their own golden calf. 

[Scott Lloyd]

Hmmmmmm. Really? If you are worried go there and defend yourself and the church, No protection though there like you may get here.

Nope. I made that decision long ago. I stay away from toxic environments.

[Bobbieaware]

So you think Ms. Kelly had an identity crisis?

Kelly's problem is found in the fact that in the pride of her worldly accomplishments she confused secular progressive dogma for revelation from God. And that's it in a nutshell, plain and simple.

[Bobbieaware]

Oh there are lots of other answers but they migh cause your mind to explode if you looked at them with an open one.

I was speaking believer to believer, not believer to unbeliever. The latter is a whole different dynamic.

[Bobbieaware]

I think that you are missing an important factor: the role of satan in their hostility. It is quite amazing really just how many exmembers behave to the lds church, dating back to the time of joseph smith. The MO has not changed at all. And there must be a good reason for that. Strangely, if one would ask these members when they were active would they ever see themselves behaving toward the church as they now do, all would most likely say no and cringe in horror. And yet....

I agree, but I didn't want to add Satan into the mix because that tends to stir up the mockers.

[busybee]

I don't believe this. There are plenty of former LDS you have gone on to live peaceful, moral, upstanding lives full of faith in Jesus Christ. The caricature of ex-LDS as demon possessed drunkards whos sole focus and obsession is with trying to destroy the church is something that should be left to die.

Well I guess you need to take it up with Joseph Smith when you meet him. He is the one reported to have said it.

 

And I have personally witnessed it on more than one occassion. I do believe that you cannot be neutral about the church if you leave it. You might not care enough to act against it, but you have, by your action of leaving, chosen the way of the oppostion. Either this is the Lord's church, or it's not. There is no middle ground.