Kate Kelly Now Encouraging Others To Leave The Lds Church

[smac97]

Here: Kate Kelly: If staying in LDS Church doesn’t ‘spark joy,’ it’s OK to leave
 
I'm not sure how else to characterize this article, quoted in italics below:
 
> When I was excommunicated from the Mormon church just over a year ago, I was widely quoted as saying, "Don't leave. Stay, and make things better." Many felt that asking women to stay in a church that doesn't value them as equals was confusing and dangerous.
 
Here she both A) signals that she is backing off on her previous stance in encouraging others to stay in the Church, and B) slandering the Church is being an entity "that doesn't value (women) as equals."
 
> While probably true, at the time I was torn. I didn't want them to succeed in forcing us out of a space we had fought so hard to claim.
 
"They" being the LDS Church.  A "space" which "we" (Kate Kelly and her follows) "had fought so hard to claim" also being a reference to the LDS Church.  
 
> Just this past week a young woman, heartsick and exhausted over the treatment of LDS women, contacted me for advice. She remembered my thoughts to "stay and make things better," and was determined to do just that. However, when I originally made that statement, I, too, was hurting and exhausted. I hadn't had time to experience the wonderful resolution and beauty that exist outside of Mormonism.
 
And there it is again: a signal that she is pivoting to encouraging others to leave the LDS Church.
 
I agree that much beauty exists "outside of Mormonism."  But there is much beauty within it, as well, including things that cannot be found "outside of Mormonism."
 
> It is a refreshing discovery to experience the easy peace that comes when you stop struggling to reconcile your heart with a faith community that devalues you.
 
There's a second slur against the Church (describing it as "a faith community that devalues (women)").
 
> I let her know that staying is not the only honorable choice.
 
And there it is.  A bit more explicit than the title of the piece and the other signals that she is now encouraging others to leave the Church.
 
> The decision for a person to stay active in the Mormon church should be based on an honest evaluation of its benefits, and not fear. The popular home-organizing guru Marie Kondo offers some tips that seem applicable to organizing your spiritual life as well as your shelves. In every quest to de-clutter your living spaces, she encourages people to take out every possession they own and examine it. When deciding to keep or get rid of any given item, Kondo encourages the aspiring de-clutterer to ask themselves: “Does it spark joy?” If the item does not spark joy, it should be discarded to free up space.
 
Yeesh.  I don't think that an apt comparison can be made between a decision to retain or discard one's personal possessions and knick-knacks and a decision to retain or discard one's religious belief.
 
What a feckless, shallow bit of reasoning this is.  Most of the important things in life are not pure founts of unending joy.  I have had many important experiences in my life, such as joining the military, serving a mission, going to college, getting married, having and raising children, working to support my family, serving in the Church, and so on.  In the main, these have been wonderful experiences for me, but it's not all been grape juice and roses.  Serving in the military was hard, and there were many times that I wanted to quit.  How fortunate am I, then, to have not had Kate Kelly as an advisor during those difficult times, as she may have exploited moments of hardship/weakness to encourage me to abandon my service to my country, merely because in the moment it did "not spark joy."
 
And how much more fortunate am I to have not been acquainted with Kate Kelly at the many other times during which I struggled while serving as a missionary, or while I was in college, or during my professional career, and - most importantly - I am so glad she has not been around while I have had difficult times as a husband and father.  The things which have brought me the most joy in my life have also brought me the most exhaustion, and have tested my endurance and character.  How utterly lacking in character I would have been had I decided to follow Kate Kelly's self-centered and self-indulgent twaddle to "discard" things that, in the moment, do not "spark joy."
 
> I encourage Mormon women to ask themselves a similar question: does my participation in Mormonism spark joy?
 
I am fortunate in that my wife has repeatedly borne testimony regarding the joy she has found in the Restored Gospel.  I doubt she'll be paying much attention to Kate Kelly's loaded question.  But I think there may be some Latter-day Saints who, while in difficult circumstances or during a nadir of faith, may choose to listen to Kate Kelly's now explicit apostasy and leave the Church as a result.  What a saddening thing we are witnessing here.
 
> I’ve only had a year since my excommunication to reflect on my personal answer to this question, but embracing the result has been empowering. While serving a Mormon mission in Barcelona, Spain, I bought a puffed-sleeve T-shirt with the words in swirly cursive “Stop believing things that are not true” across the chest. At the time, I arrogantly thought of it as funny because I was proselyting that Mormonism was the one true church with a monopoly on truth and goodness. My affinity for that saying has changed over my journey, as it now inspires me to be honest about whether Mormonism sparks joy for me.
 
The Church has never claimed to have "a monopoly on truth and goodness."  This is a rank falsehood.
 
> It is like discovering air in your lungs for the first time, to let go of the heavy burden of dogma and injustices that act like ritual in Mormonism’s charade to assure us that all are equal. The price of agony needn’t be paid to a church that isn’t willing to hear and hold you in that pain. They don’t deserve your anguish.
 
"Mormonism's charade."
 
Wow!
 
> It has been indescribably freeing for me to stop believing that men have control over whether or not I go to heaven. They don’t. In excommunicating me and continuing to punish others, male leaders of the church are gambling on a future of controlled obedience. It won’t work. We tried to make a middle space where authenticity and orthodoxy could co-exist. Church leaders rejected that. Therefore, it’s not a sign of defeat or weakness to leave an institution that causes you pain. It’s quite the opposite.
 
Yet another rank falsehood.  The LDS Church does not believe "that men have control over whether or not" a person goes to heaven.  "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son."  (John 5:22)
 
> I don’t wish for Mormon women to follow me — or to follow anyone. I want them to follow their own hearts, aspirations and dreams. Sometimes the culmination of that journey will lead them out of the church — and that’s O.K.!
 
I hope the foregoing sentence acts as a reality check for those members of the Church who have heretofore followed/supported Kate Kelly.
 
> There is hope and joy to be found in abundance outside of Mormonism.
 
Yes, but not a fulness of joy.  Not saving ordinances and covenants.  Not eternal families.  The phrase "mess of pottage" comes to mind...
 
> There is calm and rest for your soul, and equal opportunities for your daughters. For many women the safer and more peaceful choice is to leave the church.  Give yourself permission to make the best choice for you and your own well-being. Put your faith in yourself and in women.
 
Enticing words, eh?  Except, there's no mention of faith in God.
 
> Always remember, you have power. You can exercise that power by sending a message to the church and voting with your feet.
 
I hope the foregoing sentence acts as a reality check for those members of the Church who have heretofore followed/supported Kate Kelly.
 
> You can remove your name from the records of the church as a way to communicate to male church leaders why they can’t keep you or others like you. This has been my husband’s choice, and for many, many people I respect and admire. A mass resignation event is scheduled in Salt Lake City at City Creek Park on Saturday, July 25, at 2 p.m. I think it is important to register dissent and let church leaders know what the cost of their rigidity is.
 
If this is not open advocacy for others to leave the Church, I don't know what is.
 
> In the end, there is no one true way to dismantle patriarchy. It will take both people on the inside continuing to agitate and people leaving the church and marking their dissent to facilitate the necessary equality overhaul of Mormonism. But, no one should be made to unduly suffer for the cause of religious parity.
 
So the OW group was not about priesthood ordination, after all.  It was about "dismantl(ing) patriarchy."  
 
> Male leaders colonized our minds to make us think we had to play by their rules to be taken seriously. But, we don’t have to stay and “endure all things” for our critiques of the patriarchal system, and the harm it causes, to be valid. Our level of orthodoxy does not determine the validity of our thoughts, desires, concerns and demands.
 
No comment necessary, I think.
 
> After a year, the version of me who wants to urge people to stay has evolved.  I wish now to amend my original advice: If the church does not “spark joy” in you, leave with your head held high.
 
I hope the foregoing sentence acts as a reality check for those members of the Church who have heretofore followed/supported Kate Kelly.
 
This is a sad, and sadly predictable, development.  I hope Kate Kelly has a change of heart and retracts her statements.  Meanwhile, I think this article is a Matthew 7:15-style wake-up call.
 
Thanks,
 
-Smac

Edited July 18, 2015 by smac97

[jkwilliams]

If the church does not “spark joy” in you, leave with your head held high.

I can't argue with that or its opposite: If the church sparks joy in you, stay with your head held high.

Edited July 17, 2015 by jkwilliams

[JAHS]

She certainly did show her true colors in this article and vindicates the decision to ex her.

[jkwilliams]

She certainly did show her true colors in this article and vindicates the decision to ex her.

Or you could see it just as a disappointed woman reassessing her feelings after being excommunicated. I know my feelings evolved significantly after I left.

[smac97]

Or you could see it just as a disappointed woman reassessing her feelings after being excommunicated. I know my feelings evolved significantly after I left.

 

I can see that.  I can also see people substantially revising their assessment of Kate Kelly now that all of this is in the open.  For example, I wonder if the radicalized position now published to the world by Kate Kelly has been known by the OW folks for a while.  They spent a lot of time characterizing themselves as being comprised of "faithful" Latter-day Saints (their word).  Perhaps the OW folks had a heads-up regarding what Kate Kelly was gearing up to say, which could explain her departure from OW a few weeks ago.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

Edited July 17, 2015 by smac97

[jkwilliams]

I can see that.  I can also see people substantially revising their assessment of Kate Kelly now that all of this is in the open.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

My opinion hasn't changed much. I thought she was fooling herself by trying to effect change in the church from within; the church doesn't work that way. She found that out the hard way.

[JAHS]

Or you could see it just as a disappointed woman reassessing her feelings after being excommunicated. I know my feelings evolved significantly after I left.

Reassesng one's feeling is one thing, but to make such accusations and encourage others to leave is going too far.

[jkwilliams]

Reassesng one's feeling is one thing, but to make such accusations and encourage others to leave is going too far.

She wasn't encouraging people to leave but saying that she was no longer encouraging people who aren't happy to stay in the church. As for the "accusations," I know quite a few active LDS, men and women, who think the church devalues women. The difference is that they don't say so in public.

[Avatar4321]

I think it illustrates the main problem she has had from the beginning.

She doesn't really have a testimony of the Lord or the latter day work.

[jkwilliams]

I think it illustrates the main problem she has had from the beginning.

She doesn't really have a testimony of the Lord or the latter day work.

I think we get into trouble when we start speculating on who has or had a testimony or how strong it is or was.

[JAHS]

She wasn't encouraging people to leave but saying that she was no longer encouraging people who aren't happy to stay in the church. As for the "accusations," I know quite a few active LDS, men and women, who think the church devalues women. The difference is that they don't say so in public.

 

"A mass resignation event is scheduled in Salt Lake City at City Creek Park on Saturday, July 25, at 2 p.m. I think it is important to register dissent and let church leaders know what the cost of their rigidity is."

 

Sure sounds to me like she is encouraging people to leave.

[jkwilliams]

"A mass resignation event is scheduled in Salt Lake City at City Creek Park on Saturday, July 25, at 2 p.m. I think it is important to register dissent and let church leaders know what the cost of their rigidity is."

 

Sure sounds to me like she is encouraging people to leave.

If they're unhappy, yes. I'd say the same thing.

[JAHS]

If they're unhappy, yes. I'd say the same thing.

If a person is feeling unhappy where they are they can leave. But it is irresponsible to take others down with her who, perhaps because of an immature testimony, might follow her lead when they otherwise might have stayed and grown to a more faithful and strong member and eventually find joy in the gospel.

[jkwilliams]

If a person is feeling unhappy where they are they can leave. But it is irresponsible to take others down with her who, perhaps because of an immature testimony, might follow her lead when they otherwise might have stayed and grown to a more faithful and strong member and eventually find joy in the gospel.

I just realized how strange it is that I haven't said much of anything about Kate Kelly, ever, and all of a sudden, I'm sticking up for her. I stand by statement, however, that there's nothing irresponsible about advising people who aren't happy in an organization that it's OK to leave. I don't think it does anyone any good to stay in any organization that makes them unhappy.

[bluebell]

I think we get into trouble when we start speculating on who has or had a testimony or how strong it is or was.

 

I agree in general, but i think in this case it's not so much judging as just stating the obvious.  It's obvious that she does not have a testimony of the church or many of the truth claims of the church.

 

Her presiding theme in that article is to stay if it makes you happy, not stay if you believe it's true.  Whether or not it's true isn't even part of her equation that i can see. That's not something someone would advocate who did believe that this was Christ's church

[Scott Lloyd]

So we went through an in-some-ways painful episode with her trying to impose her will on the Church, and, as it turns out, she would have been happier on the outside all along. I think there's a lesson to be drawn from that.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[jkwilliams]

I agree in general, but i think in this case it's not so much judging as just stating the obvious.  It's obvious that she does not have a testimony of the church or many of the truth claims of the church.

 

Her presiding theme in that article is to stay if it makes you happy, not stay if you believe it's true.  Whether or not it's true isn't even part of her equation that i can see. That's not something someone would advocate who did believe that this was Christ's church

The statement was that her problem from the beginning was lack of testimony. I don't think anyone can say that. I'd say it's a safe be she doesn't have a testimony now, but to say that she never did? No, that's not right.

[jkwilliams]

So we went through an in-some-ways painful episode with her trying to impose her will on the Church, and, as it turns out, she would have been happier on the outside all along. I think there's a lesson to be drawn from that.

I don't know whether she was trying to impose her will on the church (can anyone?), nor am I sure that all along she would have been happier outside. I'm curious, though: in what ways has this episode been painful for you?

[JAHS]

I just realized how strange it is that I haven't said much of anything about Kate Kelly, ever, and all of a sudden, I'm sticking up for her. I stand by statement, however, that there's nothing irresponsible about advising people who aren't happy in an organization that it's OK to leave. I don't think it does anyone any good to stay in any organization that makes them unhappy.

 

It's a good thing I didn't encourage my kids to drop out of school because they were unhappy with some of their teachers. 

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't know whether she was trying to impose her will on the church (can anyone?), nor am I sure that all along she would have been happier outside. I'm curious, though: in what ways has this episode been painful for you?

I didn't say it had been painful for me personally.

 

And trying to force a change in Church doctrine and practice to suit her own views pretty much counts as attempting to impose her will, by my reckoning.

 

Incidentally, John, every time you come on this board, you ultimately end up running over to the Shades board to denounce me because of some disagreement or other that we have had here. The last time it happened (and I can even remember the subject now, though most of the time I can't) I made a mental note not to engage you if you ever came back here.

 

I've already violated that vow, but don't be surprised if I seem very guarded about interacting with you.

[jkwilliams]

It's a good thing I didn't encourage my kids to drop out of school because they were unhappy with some of their teachers.

We're talking about adults who voluntarily associate with an organization, not children who are going to school. Why would anyone voluntarily associate with an organization that didn't make them happy?

[jkwilliams]

I didn't say it had been painful for me personally.

 

And trying to force a change in Church doctrine and practice to suit her own views pretty much counts as attempting to impose her will, by my reckoning.

 

Incidentally, John, every time you come on this board, you ultimately end up running over to the Shades board to denounce me because of some disagreement or other that we have had here. The last time it happened (and I can even remember the subject now, though most of the time I can't) I made a mental note not to engage you if you ever came back here.

 

I've already violated that vow, but don't be surprised if I seem very guarded about interacting with you.

Yeah, I've complained about some of the things you have said to and about me. So, if you don't want to interact with me, that's fine. The only thing I can remember is when you said I was following Satan.

OK, I looked it up. The last time I said anything about you was over a year ago, when you went after me for suggesting that an ex-Mormon might have something useful to say about how members deal with their loved ones who leave the church. Was I a bit harsh? Probably, so I apologize for that, but it wasn't your finest hour.

So, who was this episode painful for, if it wasn't for you?

Edited July 18, 2015 by jkwilliams

[Storm Rider]

Ms. Kate has burned up her fifteen minutes of fame and she has long since become a tinkling cymbal in the "way back" of LDS conversation.  I see nothing new or surprising in her current position.  I agree with jkwilliams; KK has been fooling herself and fooling others from the beginning.  I have never appreciated her approach or her position.  She always represented the example of an individual that has gained a little bit of learning, inflating her ego, and without any wisdom.  She has never understood the value of a wife and mother because she has always demeaned them.  Likewise, she has never understood the value of man as father and husband. 

[JAHS]

We're talking about adults who voluntarily associate with an organization, not children who are going to school. Why would anyone voluntarily associate with an organization that didn't make them happy?

They don't have to.  People have their agency to do what makes them "happy, but people who are young in the gospel or their testimony of the gospel are like children who might be easily swayed out of a path that could have led them to eternal joy.  In my opinion Kate Kelly is like the pied piper leading the children away from their families into the secular world. 

[jkwilliams]

 In my opinion Kate Kelly is like the pied piper leading the children away from their families into the secular world.

I thought that was me.