Popular Post JAHS Posted July 18, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 18, 2015 Why? Is the LDS church off limits from those that the church has given the proverbial boot? Is the LDS church somehow more special than other organizations? Look I knew a while back Kate Kelly was headed for excommunication. I know what the church is that I belong too and understand it well. Pubilically and vocally oppose it and you will get the boot. so the church kicked her out. Why the heck should she have any constraints about her thoughts as to whether people should stay or go?Because if she really does believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (but perhaps not the leadership), which she has stated; she would not say the things she is saying now. A true disciple of Christ would constrain her thoughts and keep them to herself and not encourage others to leave. She wants women to rely on the arm of the flesh rather than on revelation from God. 5
Teancum Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Nope. I made that decision long ago. I stay away from toxic environments.So you prefer a protected environment for your polemics ?
Teancum Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Kelly's problem is found in the fact that in the pride of her worldly accomplishments she confused secular progressive dogma for revelation from God. And that's it in a nutshell, plain and simple.Who knows? Maybe she had the correct revelation and you don't .
Teancum Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I was speaking believer to believer, not believer to unbeliever. The latter is a whole different dynamic.So in other words your mind is closed?
Teancum Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Well I guess you need to take it up with Joseph Smith when you meet him. He is the one reported to have said it. And I have personally witnessed it on more than one occassion. I do believe that you cannot be neutral about the church if you leave it. You might not care enough to act against it, but you have, by your action of leaving, chosen the way of the oppostion. Either this is the Lord's church, or it's not. There is no middle ground.Well that is a problem no doubt!
Mystery Meat Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 John's one sentence sums it up well. Of course for those who dogmatically KNOW the LDS church is gods only truth I understand this is tough to get your head around. Not particularly.
Teancum Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Because if she really does believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (but perhaps not the leadership), which she has stated; she would not say the things she is saying now. A true disciple of Christ would constrain her thoughts and keep them to herself and not encourage others to leave. She wants women to rely on the arm of the flesh rather than on revelation from God.Your definition of what a true disciple of Christ is must be tainted by your own a priori assumptions is it not?
JAHS Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Your definition of what a true disciple of Christ is must be tainted by your own a priori assumptions is it not?It is not assumptions. It is backed up with 60 years of experience in the church where I have learned what a disciple of Christ is and have seen how such people live their lives and spiritually build people up rather than tear them down. If you don't agree with the scriptural or church definition of a disciple of Christ then a discussion of such is fruitless.
Teancum Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) It is not assumptions. It is backed up with 60 years of experience in the church where I have learned what a disciple of Christ is and have seen how such people live their lives and spiritually build people up rather than tear them down. If you don't agree with the scriptural or church definition of a disciple of Christ then a discussion of such is fruitless.So you have five years on me...big deal. Others may understand discipleship differently. Are they wrong? Edited July 18, 2015 by Teancum
BookofMormonLuvr Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Well I guess you need to take it up with Joseph Smith when you meet him. He is the one reported to have said it. And I have personally witnessed it on more than one occassion. I do believe that you cannot be neutral about the church if you leave it. You might not care enough to act against it, but you have, by your action of leaving, chosen the way of the oppostion. Either this is the Lord's church, or it's not. There is no middle ground.Fine with me, I feel no obligation to believe every single word that fell from Joseph's lips as a prophetic utterance.Sure, you have seen it on more than one occasion- situations you knew about or were made aware of. But for every example you have, there are multiple thousands you don't know of, who have just walked away quietly and went on living their lives with no angst or animosity towards the church or its members.
JAHS Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 So you have five years on me...big deal. Others may understand discipleship differently. Are they wrong?If their actions or beliefs deviate from the scriptures or what the prophets tell us then yes they are wrong.
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Hmmmmmm. Really? If you are worried go there and defend yourself and the church, No protection though there like you may get here.If Scott believes that other place is a cesspool, I don't blame him for not going there. It's another thing to suggest I have defamed and slandered him. But I think Scott's derail has gone on long enough. But good for Kate Kelly for speaking out on things she believes are important, especially since she had to know she was going to be vilified for it.
Teancum Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 If their actions or beliefs deviate from the scriptures or what the prophets tell us then yes they are wrong.Or maybe how you understand scripture is wrong. Maybe the prophets are wrong?
stephenpurdy Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I don't believe this. There are plenty of former LDS you have gone on to live peaceful, moral, upstanding lives full of faith in Jesus Christ. The caricature of ex-LDS as demon possessed drunkards whos sole focus and obsession is with trying to destroy the church is something that should be left to die. The reason why it won't be "left to die", is because those whose sole focus and obsession to destroy the Church are the most vocal. Hard to ignore those ones. I would like to point this out: MOST people who leave Mormonism don't go to another Christian church. They just stop going to any church whatsoever. -Stephen
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The reason why it won't be "left to die", is because those whose sole focus and obsession to destroy the Church are the most vocal. Hard to ignore those ones. I would like to point this out: MOST people who leave Mormonism don't go to another Christian church. They just stop going to any church whatsoever. -StephenSome of us stay in so we can destroy the church from within. 1
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Why? Is the LDS church off limits from those that the church has given the proverbial boot? Is the LDS church somehow more special than other organizations? Look I knew a while back Kate Kelly was headed for excommunication. I know what the church is that I belong too and understand it well. Pubilically and vocally oppose it and you will get the boot. so the church kicked her out. Why the heck should she have any constraints about her thoughts as to whether people should stay or go? The only thing I can think of is that it is opposite of what she was saying when she was trying to keep herself from excommunication. It appears she was lying then and now that didn't work she is free to advocate a different position. Disingenuous it is.
stephenpurdy Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Who knows? Maybe she had the correct revelation and you don't . I think that the Church's organization is exactly what is needed to prevent this kind of confusion. If we have some member here saying, "I have revelation for the whole Church, we should believe and practice this way," then we have another member of the Church saying , "No, don't listen to that person. I have revelation for the whole Church, instead we should do it this way." And then the Church would be led a stray by every wind of doctrine, to and fro. -Stephen
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The only thing I can think of is that it is opposite of what she was saying when she was trying to keep herself from excommunication. It appears she was lying then and now that didn't work she is free to advocate a different position. Disingenuous it is.Either that, or she has changed her mind. It does happen.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 So you prefer a protected environment for your polemics ?I've grown bored with this conversation. It takes two to have a conversation. A corrollary to that is that it only takes one to end it. I'm ending this one.
sdc999 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Now if we could only encourage her to leave the Chirch alone...Funny but when I left Methodism I never felt the need to denounce it.Your leaving Methodism would be an interesting story. Just a few questions if you will.1. Did you have to submit a letter to your pastor to indicate your intentions?2. Did your pastor have you wait 30 days to make sure you were not acting hastily and then call you to make sure that it was your intention?3. Did a relative call to say they were never speaking to you again for leading your family away from Methodism?4. (only if you're married) Did your wife NEVER hear from any of her relief society "friends" again because of her/your choice?5. Did your children's best friend's parents disallow them to come over to spend the night ever again? (explain that one to your 10 and 12 year old)6. Did your brothers say, "I feel so sorry for you" because of your decision to leave?
ERayR Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 So you have five years on me...big deal. Others may understand discipleship differently. Are they wrong? Probably yes.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The reason why it won't be "left to die", is because those whose sole focus and obsession to destroy the Church are the most vocal. Hard to ignore those ones. I would like to point this out: MOST people who leave Mormonism don't go to another Christian church. They just stop going to any church whatsoever. -Stephen True. And the possible reasons for that could make for an interesting discussion sometime.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 If Scott believes that other place is a cesspool, I don't blame him for not going there. It's another thing to suggest I have defamed and slandered him. But I think Scott's derail has gone on long enough. But good for Kate Kelly for speaking out on things she believes are important, especially since she had to know she was going to be vilified for it.Presenting or prolonging discussion about a non-consenting individual in a toxic environment is not a good thing either. But you're right that this is a derail. That was not my intent. I intended only a one-time notice about why I will be guarded about interacting with you going forward.
JAHS Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Or maybe how you understand scripture is wrong. Maybe the prophets are wrong?Then like I said before, further discussion about this is fruitless. All members are at dfferent levels of discipleship, but there are some obvious signs that one has lost it, especially the kinds of actions that cause one to be excommunicated from the church.
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