Symbols

[JLHPROF]

I had some free time today (wife's out of town) and I've been feeling a bit introspective.

So I took a stroll this evening around the grounds of the Salt Lake Temple.  As usual, in addition to the spirit that is there, I started contemplating the temple, both what goes on inside and the outer design.

 

The Salt Lake Temple has an incredible amount of symbolism carved in the stones, but the thought occurred to me:

I have my own understanding of some of these symbols, but if pressed, I would have a hard time providing any kind of CFR for them.  Nibley's "Temple & Cosmos" actually addresses a lot of them, but not all.  Some are things I've heard, or connections I've made. 

 

It also brought to mind a previous time I was there and a husband and wife stopped nearby, pointed at the temple and said loudly that they didn't understand why the stars were above the sun and the earth below the moon.  I thought this was pretty basic.

 

Anyway, my topic is this: - Does symbolism have to have a source or do symbols only have significance to those who accept them?  If I see a symbol with no recorded reference in the design of the temple, part of the endowment, the garment, does that mean the symbolic connection doesn't exist?

 

Remember, we are told that we could spend our entire lives contemplating the symbols of the temple and just begin to come to an understanding.  Clearly this tells us there are symbols NOT found in the reference books that we have to recognize ourselves.  So how valid are our personal interpretations or symbolic connections that we may have heard in speculation?
 

"The temple ordinances are so imbued with symbolic meaning as to provide a lifetime of productive contemplation and learning. Ponder each word and activity in the temple." - Elder Richard G. Scott

 

 

 

[VideoGameJunkie]

A few symbols and parts of the endowment came from the Masons.

[Rain]

I do think the symbol connection exists.

I don't know if this is the same in the older temples, but it is found in the newer ones. Each new temple, that I have been too, has a decorative symbol. I don't know that I would have recognized that on my own. One of the sisters in my last ward was sister to one of the interior designers for either the Draper or Oquirrh temple. The Draper temple has Sego Lilies. The Oquirrh I think has circles. Unfortunately, I missed a talk given by her about the use and symbolism behind those, but many things come to mind.

The Gilbert temple has agave for its repeated design. Each leaf on the agave will have an imprint of its parent leave. The symbolism there should be pretty clear.

I don't know if everything we see at the temple was meant by man to have symbolism, but I think that through the Spirit our minds can be vastly open to symbols God intended or ...didn't intend. Not sure how to describe that. He is all knowing and He is an awesome planner, but I think at the right timed God can show us symbolism in non symbolic things.

[CV75]

Remember, we are told that we could spend our entire lives contemplating the symbols of the temple and just begin to come to an understanding.  Clearly this tells us there are symbols NOT found in the reference books that we have to recognize ourselves.  So how valid are our personal interpretations or symbolic connections that we may have heard in speculation?

I would say they are as valid as what you become as a result of it all.

[JLHPROF]

I would say they are as valid as what you become as a result of it all.

 

Yet if I were to post some symbolic connections here I guarantee a CFR would be hot on its heels.

 

For example if I were to claim that there are crowns symbolic of a King & Priest placed below two godheads, would I be accused of making things up or would the symbolism be valid just because I see it that way?

 

Or if I saw stones that represent D&C 130:10 - kingdoms higher than Celestial.

 

There is much symbolism is all aspects of the temple experience, but most of it has NO written reference.

[theplains]

Anyway, my topic is this: - Does symbolism have to have a source or do symbols only have significance to those who accept them?

 

 

The symbol has its source in the builder of the temple (with the ultimate authority lying with

the President of the church). He would have the true meaning of the symbol, but you are

free to come up with your own interpretation, be it the same or completely different.

Another book I saw was Celestial Symbols by Allen Barber.

 

Regards,

Jim

[CV75]

Yet if I were to post some symbolic connections here I guarantee a CFR would be hot on its heels.

 

For example if I were to claim that there are crowns symbolic of a King & Priest placed below two godheads, would I be accused of making things up or would the symbolism be valid just because I see it that way?

 

Or if I saw stones that represent D&C 130:10 - kingdoms higher than Celestial.

 

There is much symbolism is all aspects of the temple experience, but most of it has NO written reference.

If there is no other way to validate the statement, “be” the statement. It is the same idea as “Be careful how you act, because you may be the only Standard Church Works some people may ever read.” (Harold B. Lee, Address to Brigham Young University stake conference missionary session, 2, 5 – footnote 13). https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-harold-b-lee/chapter-17?lang=eng

Of course there are more reasons to be careful how we act, and hopefully we have the Holy Spirit’s guidance in recognizing the impressions we get from symbols and in acting on them.

[CV75]

Does symbolism have to have a source

I assume you mean an authoritative source other than your own observation and imagination, in which case I would say "No, you can read symbolism into something." Many times we do know where the symbol and its interpretation come from, but we are free to be guided from that point to additional truth by the Holy Spirit. The soundness of your conclusion can be measured by how acceptable a person you become. to the Lord.

do symbols only have significance to those who accept them?

Yes, always.

[JLHPROF]

[SamIam]

One of the best articles I have ever read on temple symbolism of the Salt Lake Temple was by Richard Oman in a BYU studies article.  Select the download PDF link for a copy of the article:

 

https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/BYUStudies/article/view/6416/6065

[JLHPROF]

One of the best articles I have ever read on temple symbolism of the Salt Lake Temple was by Richard Oman in a BYU studies article.  Select the download PDF link for a copy of the article:

 

https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/BYUStudies/article/view/6416/6065

 

That is one of the best I've ever read too (well, just skimmed so far, but will definitely read).  Very well done.

[Uncle Dale]

A few symbols and parts of the endowment came from the Masons.

 

 

Well, a brief inspection of the pre-1830 symbols of the New York

State Grand Lodge will show that a bee-hive, surmounting the

quotation "Holiness to the Lord" was the official Masonic motto

for at least one state's freemasons.

 

The symbolic overlap does not end there, of course. But some

writers of an earlier day dismissed the connection as nothing

more than the freemasons having preserved elements of what

was once the sacred "Ancient Order of Things."

 

In other words, the Craftsmen were the illegal appropriators of

sacred symbology, and the "Restored Priesthood" the true heir

to those signs, keys and tokens of Father Adam's Dispensation.

 

Who knows?

 

UD

[mfbukowski]

I had some free time today (wife's out of town) and I've been feeling a bit introspective.

So I took a stroll this evening around the grounds of the Salt Lake Temple.  As usual, in addition to the spirit that is there, I started contemplating the temple, both what goes on inside and the outer design.

 

The Salt Lake Temple has an incredible amount of symbolism carved in the stones, but the thought occurred to me:

I have my own understanding of some of these symbols, but if pressed, I would have a hard time providing any kind of CFR for them.  Nibley's "Temple & Cosmos" actually addresses a lot of them, but not all.  Some are things I've heard, or connections I've made. 

 

It also brought to mind a previous time I was there and a husband and wife stopped nearby, pointed at the temple and said loudly that they didn't understand why the stars were above the sun and the earth below the moon.  I thought this was pretty basic.

 

Anyway, my topic is this: - Does symbolism have to have a source or do symbols only have significance to those who accept them?  If I see a symbol with no recorded reference in the design of the temple, part of the endowment, the garment, does that mean the symbolic connection doesn't exist?

 

Remember, we are told that we could spend our entire lives contemplating the symbols of the temple and just begin to come to an understanding.  Clearly this tells us there are symbols NOT found in the reference books that we have to recognize ourselves.  So how valid are our personal interpretations or symbolic connections that we may have heard in speculation?

 

Symbols are tools for revelation.

 

The alphabet consists of symbols- if there was a clear correspondence between a given symbol and a temple meaning, it would be the same as writing down a meaning.

 

Maybe that is not clear.  Suppose the symbol  ">" always has the same meaning, because you can look it up in a book.  Suppose the same for " ^ " and "<" and " # ".

 

If that were the case, they would just be a coded language.  You could just look up every "word" in a book and decode what was "really" being said.  It would essentially not be any different than a literal translation of a different language like Greek or Swahili.  All you would have to do is have a dictionary for symbols to decode the message.

 

But that is not the case.  The beauty of symbols is that one can see what one wants to see in them, and therefore be guided by the Spirit, to open one's mind and let the Spirit take you where it wants to take you.  A compass can also be an arrow pointing you in a direction, it can be a measure to measure a man, it can be a tool for navigation to show you the way.

 

A square can be four right angles.  The number 4 can be the 4 directions.  So a square can be similar to a circle, indicating the whole world in the 4 directions.

 

The point is that the very ambiguity of symbols opens the mind to hundreds of interpretations instead of just one.  That allows the Lord to teach each of us what we need to know.

[ERayR]

A few symbols and parts of the endowment came from the Masons.

 

Symbol meanings are peculiar to those that use them.  The same symbol may have different meaning s to different groups.  In order to understand symbols one must know its significance to the group in question.

[Tacenda]

Well, a brief inspection of the pre-1830 symbols of the New York

State Grand Lodge will show that a bee-hive, surmounting the

quotation "Holiness to the Lord" was the official Masonic motto

for at least one state's freemasons.

 

The symbolic overlap does not end there, of course. But some

writers of an earlier day dismissed the connection as nothing

more than the freemasons having preserved elements of what

was once the sacred "Ancient Order of Things."

 

In other words, the Craftsmen were the illegal appropriators of

sacred symbology, and the "Restored Priesthood" the true heir

to those signs, keys and tokens of Father Adam's Dispensation.

 

Who knows?

 

UD

I remember reading something about the beehive having ties to Masonry along with the lion.  

[ERayR]

I remember reading something about the beehive having ties to Masonry along with the lion.  

 

But in what context?

[Tacenda]

But in what context?

http://www.utah.com/mormon/lion_house.htm

 

I found this article, maybe it will put "lion" in context.  Quote from the article.  "Young had a lion installed at his residence in part because it reminded him of a similar statue at an affluent home in Vermont that he had seen as a young man. "Lion of the Lord" was also one of Young's nicknames among the Latter-day Saints, among whom he served as president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from 1847 until his death in 1877, because of the tenacity of his faith and the power with which he often preached."

 

So I must or might have jumped to conclusions about the lion. 

[HappyJackWagon]

 

Quote

"The temple ordinances are so imbued with symbolic meaning as to provide a lifetime of productive contemplation and learning. Ponder each word and activity in the temple." - Elder Richard G. Scott

 

 

I used to disect every word spoken in the temple and every image shown in the video but I came to the conclusion that much of the symbolism I discovered was merely my mind trying to make sense and find deeper meaning to things that were insignificant. Out of respect for the temple I won't share examples BUT it seems clear to me that it is extremely unlikely that "each word and activity in the temple" has an original symbolic intent from which we should find meaning and greater light.

 

The many changes/corrections to the temple ordinances and the variety found in each of the temple videos indicates that not everything found in the temple has eternal meaning. OR some of the eternal truths that existed previously have been removed.

 

Focusing too much on finding symbolism in each word and action may interfere with the spiritual experience felt inside the temple and the basic teachings it shares.

[ERayR]

 

The many changes/corrections to the temple ordinances and the variety found in each of the temple videos indicates that not everything found in the temple has eternal meaning. OR some of the eternal truths that existed previously have been removed.

 

 

Or they are being expressed differently.

[JAHS]

An interesting symbol appears on the San Diego Temple, two interlocked squares with a circle in the middle, identified by Hugh Nibley (Temple and Cosmos) as the "seal of Melchizedek".

(See http://sealofmelchizedek.com/).  Don't know if it was used on purpose because of this or if was just a nice decoration.

 

[HappyJackWagon]

Or they are being expressed differently.

Or claiming the temples to have unending layers of symbolism is a great way to keep members coming back repeatedly over many years,

[mfbukowski]

I remember reading something about the beehive having ties to Masonry along with the lion.

Many symbols in our culture have "ties to masonry" but that does not mean they are intended to be masonic symbols.

At graduation, everyone knows you put a mortarboard on your head and change the tassels from left to right when you graduate- but no one thinks they are participating in a "Masonic Ritual".

[mfbukowski]

http://www.utah.com/mormon/lion_house.htm

 

I found this article, maybe it will put "lion" in context.  Quote from the article.  "Young had a lion installed at his residence in part because it reminded him of a similar statue at an affluent home in Vermont that he had seen as a young man. "Lion of the Lord" was also one of Young's nicknames among the Latter-day Saints, among whom he served as president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from 1847 until his death in 1877, because of the tenacity of his faith and the power with which he often preached."

 

So I must or might have jumped to conclusions about the lion.

Christ is called the "Lion of Judah" so I guess he was a Mason?

[ERayR]

Or claiming the temples to have unending layers of symbolism is a great way to keep members coming back repeatedly over many years,

 

Ever the pessimist aren't you?

[mfbukowski]

Or claiming the temples to have unending layers of symbolism is a great way to keep members coming back repeatedly over many years,

Kind of like those stupid physicists who think there is still more out there to learn! What dupes!

Only the ignorant like to stay that way.