Does Leaving The Lds Church Mean Leaving God?

[theplains]

I read this blog.  

 

Do some ex-mormons feel the same way in that if they felt deceived by the LDS Church, they

have also lost faith in Jesus Christ?  If yes, why?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[cursor]

Hello Jim.

 

The answer to your question depends on what you thought God is (which drew you to the faith) before your connection with Mormonism, and what you ... after the fact .. think God is. Your posted blog entry visits some very interesting points, indeed. Thanks.

Edited December 23, 2014 by cursor

[Duncan]

I know people who believe in God but don't attend Church and don't attend other Churches, now what they believe about God is I have no clue

[cursor]

I know people who believe in God but don't attend Church and don't attend other Churches, now what they believe about God is I have no clue

 

So ... waut ,,, you have no clue as to how millions of folks who don't actively attend church believe in God ... "I have no clue." BAM!

[pogi]

So ... waut ,,, you have no clue as to how millions of folks who don't actively attend church believe in God ... "I have no clue." BAM!

He didn't say that he doesnt know "how they believe in God".

He said, "what they believe about God".

BAM!

Edited December 23, 2014 by pogi

[JAHS]

For the long time member who has studied and made comparisons with other religious beliefs and come to the conclusion that the LDS Church is the only one that could be true, but then loses their testimony for whatever reason and leaves the church, might have no desire to join another church because they already know that all others are wrong too. If all the others are wrong and the LDS Church is wrong, they might also conclude that there is no God. Because if there was a God he would not leave us alone on this earth without any true divine direction or help.

 

PS.   I have been on this board for 10 years and am just now making my 1000th post..............finally.

[california boy]

For the long time member who has studied and made comparisons with other religious beliefs and come to the conclusion that the LDS Church is the only one that could be true, but then loses their testimony for whatever reason and leaves the church, might have no desire to join another church because they already know that all others are wrong too. If all the others are wrong and the LDS Church is wrong, they might also conclude that there is no God. Because if there was a God he would not leave us alone on this earth without any true divine direction or help.

 

PS.   I have been on this board for 10 years and am just now making my 1000th post..............finally.

wow, congratulations.  That is quite a feat.

[theplains]

If all the others are wrong and the LDS Church is wrong, they might also conclude that there is no God.

 

It seems like people are putting their hopes in the church they attend instead of Jesus Christ

for their salvation. Similar to what Paul mentioned in one of his epistles ... "Now this I say, that

every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."  I used

to go to a Roman Catholic church. At that time (it probably still does today), the church taught

it was the only true church in the world. But when I left, I still had my faith in Jesus Christ. In

fact, it actually increased when I started reading the Bible more.

 

I could never go back to that style (RC church, an LDS ward or a JW Kingdom Hall) where there

is less praising and theological teaching in the worship service. Some of you who have visited a 

Pentecostal/Evangelical service would know what I mean.

 

I also used to me a member of a multilevel marketing/sales company called Market America.

Their motto was, "If you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere". So it seems like if you

failed to succeed in their company, there was no point to make money in another MLM company

... which was like a trap meant to keep you from leaving.

 

Fortunately, my salvation does not depend on Joseph Smith, the Pope, or Charles Taze Russell.

 

Regards,

Jim

[JLHPROF]

 

I read this blog.  

 

Do some ex-mormons feel the same way in that if they felt deceived by the LDS Church, they

have also lost faith in Jesus Christ?  If yes, why?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

 

Short answer, yes.  Some ex-mormons who feel deceived by the Church  also lose faith in Christ.

Reason - Because everyone has their own feelings, emotions, and responses to situations.

In other words, it has more to do with the individual leaving than the Church they are leaving.

 

At least this is the usual in my opinion.  However, there are also those cases where those who begin to lose light will continue to lose more light (forget if that's scripture or prophetic teaching right now).  I am sure that losing testimony in God's church could easily progress/regress to losing testimony of God or Christ.

[Kenngo1969]

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/lds-who-join-other-churches/

[Stargazer]

wow, congratulations.  That is quite a feat.

 

He says, while at 3,000+ posts himself.  That's quite a feat, too! 

[Yirgacheffe]

It seems like people are putting their hopes in the church they attend instead of Jesus Christ

for their salvation. Similar to what Paul mentioned in one of his epistles ... "Now this I say, that

every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."  I used

to go to a Roman Catholic church. At that time (it probably still does today), the church taught

it was the only true church in the world. But when I left, I still had my faith in Jesus Christ. In

fact, it actually increased when I started reading the Bible more.

 

I could never go back to that style (RC church, an LDS ward or a JW Kingdom Hall) where there

is less praising and theological teaching in the worship service. Some of you who have visited a 

Pentecostal/Evangelical service would know what I mean.

 

I also used to me a member of a multilevel marketing/sales company called Market America.

Their motto was, "If you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere". So it seems like if you

failed to succeed in their company, there was no point to make money in another MLM company

... which was like a trap meant to keep you from leaving.

 

Fortunately, my salvation does not depend on Joseph Smith, the Pope, or Charles Taze Russell.

 

Regards,

Jim

I went to a Pentecostal service as a kid after a sleep over with a classmate.  I found it upsetting, even frightening, one of those "solidifying" points in life, after that I found religious people scary.   I don't see Pentecostal worship as something that will appeal to everyone. 

[canard78]

No. Next question?

A lot of people sadly do end up losing all belief in God after leaving Mormonism. This is a sad side-effect of the divisive nature of the "all or nothing" approach of some perspectives.

If someone were to leave Mormonism I'd probably suggest Unitarian Universalists. There's a lot there that works with the universalism inherent in Mormonism.

If someone were looking to stay in a Christian faith I'd probably suggest Methodism or similar. There are some remarkable similarities to LDS theology, particulaly the perspectives on the role of us and the atonement.

[MormonFreeThinker]

No. Next question?

A lot of people sadly do end up losing all belief in God after leaving Mormonism. This is a sad side-effect of the divisive nature of the "all or nothing" approach of some perspectives.

 

Because revelation is the only good reason to believe in a personal God. Without revelation you have nothing.

 

Many become agnostic deist. 

Edited December 24, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[canard78]

Because revelation is the only good reason to believe in a personal God. Without revelation you have nothing.

Many become agnostic deist.

Revelation isn't exclusive to Mormons:

http://testimoniesofotherfaiths.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

[bluebell]

So ... waut ,,, you have no clue as to how millions of folks who don't actively attend church believe in God ... "I have no clue." BAM!

He did not say he had no clue HOW they believe in God. He said he had no clue WHAT they believe about God.

Haha, I see Pogi already covered it!

Edited December 24, 2014 by bluebell

[Tacenda]

I know of an Atheist once LDS. Even a so-called anti, that spoke on a podcast recently. He brought up some excellent points and was finally positive about the church. He mentioned the things he lost. Not only belief in God but his sense of community. He described service as being good for him, even if we're told to do this that or the other to take care of one another. He hasn't been able to copy that. Even tried starting a community of his own and it fell through. So we lose out big time when leaving the church.

Also listened to another podcast, with DB (Bill). He interviewed Armand Mauss, a renowned Mormon scholar. Bro. Mauss nailed a lot right. For one, we need to seek after God in order to keep him with us, or keep revelation flowing. It's not one-sided, it takes both of us to make it work. Of course he put it in a different, far better way. I know I've been told to pray all my life, too dumb to realize this is what it meant.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Tacenda

[Scott Lloyd]

Forsaking the Church of Jesus Christ entails violating sacred covenants one has entered into with God.

 

Not a good thing, no matter how you slice it.

 

Edited to add:

 

Just guessing here, but that might be the thinking behind the policy at BYU not to enroll apostates from Mormonism, even though other non-Mormons can be admitted if they meet eligibility and pay the higher tuition.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[thesometimesaint]

It seems like people are putting their hopes in the church they attend instead of Jesus Christ

for their salvation. Similar to what Paul mentioned in one of his epistles ... "Now this I say, that

every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."  I used

to go to a Roman Catholic church. At that time (it probably still does today), the church taught

it was the only true church in the world. But when I left, I still had my faith in Jesus Christ. In

fact, it actually increased when I started reading the Bible more.

 

I could never go back to that style (RC church, an LDS ward or a JW Kingdom Hall) where there

is less praising and theological teaching in the worship service. Some of you who have visited a 

Pentecostal/Evangelical service would know what I mean.

 

I also used to me a member of a multilevel marketing/sales company called Market America.

Their motto was, "If you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere". So it seems like if you

failed to succeed in their company, there was no point to make money in another MLM company

... which was like a trap meant to keep you from leaving.

 

Fortunately, my salvation does not depend on Joseph Smith, the Pope, or Charles Taze Russell.

 

Regards,

Jim

 

No one's salvation depends on anyone but Christ. But if you don't believe His Apostles you won't believe Him.

[Bobbieaware]

Forsaking the Church of Jesus Christ entails violating sacred covenants one has entered into with God.

 

Not a good thing, no matter how you slice it.

 

Edited to add:

 

Just guessing here, but that might be the thinking behind the policy at BYU not to enroll apostates from Mormonism, even though other non-Mormons can be admitted if they meet eligibility and pay the higher tuition.

,

Interestingly, though, by leaving the Church and walking away from their sacred covenants, many -- like Alma the Younger and the sons of Mosiah -- seem to unwittingly follow a foreordained course that eventually leads them back home to the truth, total conversion and ultimate spiritual greatness. The time spent in the lone and dreary world teaching them well how to prize and remain loyal to the good by first getting a potent bellyful of spiritual bitterness.

[Robert F. Smith]

 

I read this blog.  

 

Do some ex-mormons feel the same way in that if they felt deceived by the LDS Church, they

have also lost faith in Jesus Christ?  If yes, why?

 

Thanks,

Jim

Hi Jim,

You always have very thoughtful posts, and you don't seem to make a lot of a silly assumptions -- such as those in the responses to that sincere blog on Patheos.  Instead, you ask questions.

 

Not everybody who leaves Mormonism loses faith in Jesus Christ or the Book of Mormon.  Some of the more well-known early Mormons who  left the Church (Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris) repented and returned later, never losing their testimonies of the BofM.  The same is true in modern times, with the return of some former members (Don Bradley and Maxine Hanks).  Others who have strong testimonies of the BofM have left the Church, but continue to bear testimony of the BofM (D. Michael Quinn).  Others leave the Church and remain quietly non-religious, while some raise a huge ruckus, as though their only purpose in life is now to get revenge against the Church.

 

However, the same can take place outside Mormonism.  I know people, such as Christopher Smith, who have left some form of Protestantism behind and have taken an entirely secular view of the universe.  Not a few Christians and Jews have taken that approach for various intellectual and emotional reasons, many of them due to the stark reality of the Holocaust -- how could a loving God allow that horrific event?

 

In other cases, it is merely a personal preference.  Someone I know prefers to attend the Presbyterian Church, even though she remains a member on paper of the LDS Church.  She is not angry at anyone.  She just finds it a good fit.  Indeed, research has shown that religious switching is generally done for just such emotional reasons.  Few people ever consider doctrinal issues.

 

Does any of that matter?  Probably not.  The LDS Church will continue to grow.  Some will leave.  Some will return.  The progress of the Church will be unaffected.  However, for mainstream churches and synagogues it is proving to be a disaster.  Losses to the mainstream are significant, and many are leaving religion entirely (as they have been in Europe for generations), and there is no likely revival on the horizon.  The only place where this tendency is attenuated is in Israel, where Jewish ethnicity prevails, even for those who are secular.  Elsewhere, however, assimilation is rapidly removing that Jewish identity.  And Christianity does not have that ethnic status -- except among the Amish, Hutterites, and the Mormons.

[Freedom]

It seems like people are putting their hopes in the church they attend instead of Jesus Christ

for their salvation. Similar to what Paul mentioned in one of his epistles ... "Now this I say, that

every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."  I used

to go to a Roman Catholic church. At that time (it probably still does today), the church taught

it was the only true church in the world. But when I left, I still had my faith in Jesus Christ. In

fact, it actually increased when I started reading the Bible more.

 

I could never go back to that style (RC church, an LDS ward or a JW Kingdom Hall) where there

is less praising and theological teaching in the worship service. Some of you who have visited a 

Pentecostal/Evangelical service would know what I mean.

 

I also used to me a member of a multilevel marketing/sales company called Market America.

Their motto was, "If you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere". So it seems like if you

failed to succeed in their company, there was no point to make money in another MLM company

... which was like a trap meant to keep you from leaving.

 

Fortunately, my salvation does not depend on Joseph Smith, the Pope, or Charles Taze Russell.

 

Regards,

Jim

Is it your faith that gives you your rudeness and ignorance? I find it very humorous that you claim a faith in Christ rather than a prophet and then you quote a prophet to justify your belief. You know full well that we do not depend on Joseph Smith but you continue to pull this falsehood out when ever you have the chance. Tell me, where does your need to 'praise' come from? Can you provide a source in your scriptures that says you must praise rather than teach gospel principles? You have do be careful not to quote a prophet or you will be abandoning your faith in Jesus. If you attend any LDS service you fill see that we teach from the scriptures. I have attended an evangelical service have not found the same. 

[theplains]

Hi Jim,

You always have very thoughtful posts, and you don't seem to make a lot of a silly assumptions -- such as those in the responses to that sincere blog on Patheos.  Instead, you ask questions.

 

...

 

In other cases, it is merely a personal preference.  Someone I know prefers to attend the Presbyterian Church, even though she remains a member on paper of the LDS Church.  She is not angry at anyone.  She just finds it a good fit.  Indeed, research has shown that religious switching is generally done for just such emotional reasons.  Few people ever consider doctrinal issues.

 

 

Thank you Robert.  Likewise.

 

My parents are not much into doctrinal issues either. They remained for cultural reasons.

When I press my dad, he occasionally admits that he cannot believe in a resurrection.

 

Jim

[theplains]

Is it your faith that gives you your rudeness and ignorance? I find it very humorous that you claim a faith in Christ rather than a prophet and then you quote a prophet to justify your belief. You know full well that we do not depend on Joseph Smith but you continue to pull this falsehood out when ever you have the chance. Tell me, where does your need to 'praise' come from? Can you provide a source in your scriptures that says you must praise rather than teach gospel principles? You have do be careful not to quote a prophet or you will be abandoning your faith in Jesus. If you attend any LDS service you fill see that we teach from the scriptures. I have attended an evangelical service have not found the same. 

 

Maybe I should have clarified my statement.  I do not believe that any visible organization can

claim to be the only true church on the earth today. This is the claim that is made by Jehovah's

Witnesses, the LDS Church, and the Catholic Church.  Forgot to mention the Seventh-day

Adventists too in my last post.

 

See http://www.gotquestions.org/praising-God.html.  This is where the need to praise God comes

from. I did not mean that one must praise God rather than teach gospel principles. While on the

topic of gospel principles, the church publishes the book Gospel Principles, but when I question

LDS missionaries, they said "oh, that's not doctrine of the church, so the contents do not affect

your salvation if any of it is really false ... but then they don't mention which of it is true or which

is false. 

 

Was God once a man who became a God? Is Jesus really the first spirit child of Heavenly

Mother and Father?  They said, "it doesn't really matter because we'll find out in the end what

is really true and what is really false". 

 

Reminds me of the Israelites who perished in the wilderness. They had access to the truth and

rejected it with their constant murmuring. They rejected Moses and his words. They did not have

a chance to postpone their decision as to whether or not Moses was telling the truth after they

had died.  Some would argue they had a second chance after death ... but after death, all unbelief

would probably cease to exist when one is faced with reality.

 

I suppose people of other faiths can view us as ignorant when we quote Christ's words that He

is the way, the truth and the life and that no one comes to the Father except through Him. Some

under the 'umbrella' of Christianity quietly assert that the Pope and Charles Taze Russell are

false prophets even though they claim theirs is the only true church or religion.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[The Nehor]

From whose perspective?