William James Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Marriage in its ideal state is a wonderful thing. But I think there is no perfect marriage. In its quest for perfect marriages, I believe the LDS Church sets unrealistic expectations for both spouses. As a result, one or both spouses are likely to feel robbed when their marriage does not fit the blissful vision of happiness the Church raised them to expect. While this is by no means the only factor leading to LDS divorces, can't we at least agree that setting unrealistic expectations is at least partly to blame? Correction: the word "Every" in the title heading should be "Ever" Edited January 30, 2014 by William James
Popular Post Freedom Posted January 31, 2014 Popular Post Posted January 31, 2014 I was not aware that the church is on a quest for perfect marriages. can you provide a reference? all I hear is instructions on how to make marriages better. 5
Popular Post bluebell Posted January 31, 2014 Popular Post Posted January 31, 2014 Could you provide a list of the unrealistic expectations that the church teaches that you are talking about? 6
Popular Post katherine the great Posted January 31, 2014 Popular Post Posted January 31, 2014 I have never seen a divorce that I would consider the fault of the church. The only divorces I have seen have been the result of selfishness or lack of commitment on the part of one or both of the spouses. I have never heard the church expect or demand perfection of any of it's members. They teach us to be unselfish in our marriages. 6
Analytics Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 The church gets some of the credit for happy marriages. It bears none of the blame for unhappy marriages.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Marriage in its ideal state is a wonderful thing. But I think there is no perfect marriage. In its quest for perfect marriages, I believe the LDS Church sets unrealistic expectations for both spouses. As a result, one or both spouses are likely to feel robbed when their marriage does not fit the blissful vision of happiness the Church raised them to expect. While this is by no means the only factor leading to LDS divorces, can't we at least agree that setting unrealistic expectations is at least partly to blame?Correction: the word "Every" in the title heading should be "Ever"I have been married 38 years today...snow has us house bound (so,no,night out) the Church discourages divorce. The Church is here to guide, I am sure what you mean concerning unrealistic expectations...could you expand on this? Edited January 31, 2014 by Bill “Papa” Lee
CV75 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Marriage in its ideal state is a wonderful thing. But I think there is no perfect marriage. In its quest for perfect marriages, I believe the LDS Church sets unrealistic expectations for both spouses. As a result, one or both spouses are likely to feel robbed when their marriage does not fit the blissful vision of happiness the Church raised them to expect. While this is by no means the only factor leading to LDS divorces, can't we at least agree that setting unrealistic expectations is at least partly to blame? Correction: the word "Every" in the title heading should be "Ever"The Church provides the means for couples to attain the perfect marriage—the keys, covenants, teachings, etc. that seal us together and bring us closer to Christ individually and as a couple. However, while the work and the glory is the Father’s, the quest is our own and the expectations and how we go about realizing them are our own. There is no unrealistic expectation or ideal when Christ says, “Be ye perfect…” However, in our weakness, we may develop unrealistic expectations and ideals that are not supported by the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. We may not understand what that means. Or we may sin and do other things that undermine the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Elder Uchtdorf gave a good talk about falling short but not letting that serve as the cause for giving up: http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/you-can-do-it-now?lang=eng 2
Popular Post Freedom Posted January 31, 2014 Popular Post Posted January 31, 2014 Blaming the church for divorce is like blaming physical fitness advocates for obesity, or financial planners for consumer debt. 6
jwhitlock Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 ... I believe the LDS Church sets unrealistic expectations for both spouses. ... can't we at least agree that setting unrealistic expectations is at least partly to blame? Nope.
BlueDreams Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) The church gets some of the credit for happy marriages. It bears none of the blame for unhappy marriages.I personally wouldn't say that....I'm having a hard time thinking of a church teaching that would increase the likelihood of divorce though. The unhappy marriages I've seen or known just don't have much to do with the church teachings per se. In fact a good number hit problems because they didn't follow basic principles taught about marriage (mutual respect, fidelity, etc). The only thing I can really think of is the whole marry young and quick thing. But that's also subjective. (Talks don't generally give an exact age for marriage, just that it shouldn't be unnecessarily delayed when you can both go to the temple and you've spent sufficient enough time to know this is the right person. It's culture that pushes for super young and quick (though this is fading IMHO)). I'm trying to think of something that I could attribute specifically to the church teaching that would directly lead/contribute to divorce or an unhappy marriage....and I just can't think of one. And certainly not the reason mentioned in the OP. I've heard of the church being a problem when they have differing goals with faith or one falls away while the other remains, etc....but not specifically from church teaches. What the church teaches is to make marriage a top priority, marry someone in the temple (and follows the subsequent covenants tied to it), carefully consider who you marry, treat your spouse with love and respect and as your partner, etc. These wouldn't lead to unhappy marriages. They're pretty good predictors for a healthier, happier chance for a marriage. With luv,BD Edited January 31, 2014 by BlueDreams 2
rpn Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I don't see how the church can be blamed for a divorce. The Lord doesn't approve of divorce except for in specific conditions that both doctrine and practice does its best to discourage. The church's official statements tell leaders to be respectful of family obligations. And humans have agency and have opportunity for personal revelation and repentance, and a duty to use both. I would agree that sometimes those who represent the church and those who believe in its doctrines sometimes conflate doctrine and tradition in ways that are not just unhelpful, and even unhealthy. I would also agree that the way some families and some wards live the gospel gives rise to a culture that can be unhelpful for marriages. And there are stories here and there that a leader counseled someone to marry or divorce in a specific instance, against the specific handbook direction. But no I don't think the church causes divorce, even if the way a couple lives the gospel results in it (or believes they must live the gospel) does.
Stone holm Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 After 30+ years of hometeaching, I must reluctantly conclude that religion does not only cause marriages, but also divorces. So, I would have to lay a little blame from time to time at the doorstep of the Church. I don't think it is intentional, nor is it any specific teaching, it's just the lifestyle commitments involved. 1
JAHS Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Nothing the church teaches should cause that to happen.Divorce might be the end result if one of the spouses decides to no longer believe in the church and leaves it.But there are usually other reasons not related to the church that really cause the divorce. 1
thatjimguy Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Maybe it seems the church assumes perfection because when we see video about marriage, they are always smiling as if all is perfect. The only times I have even seen anything resembling strife in a marriage was about divorce. Perhaps it just seems, in part, this way because of this? I have heard that women in the church are brought up with unrealistic thoughts about marriage, but of course I am a guy and never heard the stupid things that us guys expect.
volgadon Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 WmJames, Have you read the institute manual on marriage? 1
Duncan Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I think it depends on the people involved. You could have someone mention briefly the WOW in a talk and someone struggling with it think that was the focus of it whereas someone who isn't may not even notice the remark. Similarly someone who got divorced looks back and see what led them to that situation could see what all transpired (church or not) whereas someone who hasn't gotten divorced may not notice. Then too if the Church doesn't play a part in the marriage then you wonder why all the marriage talk if it's doing no one any good and people just do what they want regardless
BCSpace Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 While this is by no means the only factor leading to LDS divorces, can't we at least agree that setting unrealistic expectations is at least partly to blame? I would agree that it's teachings on sex have tended to overemphasize the negative. Otherwise, I don't feel the Church sets any unrealistic expectations for marriage.
Storm Rider Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 The church gets some of the credit for happy marriages. It bears none of the blame for unhappy marriages. No, the Church does not get credit for happy marriages; the Church gets credit for teaching principles that, if followed, lead to happy marriages. Whether we follow these principles is strictly a matter of personal choice. 3
NEDRA Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Individuals are free to marry whom they choose. If members go into a marriage hardly knowing each other believing that their marriage will work just because they're church members, the failure is all on them, not the church.
williamsmith Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Blaming the church for divorce is like blaming physical fitness advocates for obesity, or financial planners for consumer debt. Exactly. And the sort of "thinking" that goes behind such a clearly falacious question is facinating to me.
Nofear Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Marriage statistic I vaguely recall and thus allude to qualitately: When it comes to inter-denominational marriages only orthodox Jews exceed the LDS divorce rate. One the other hand, marriages coupled with temple sealings were very, very low.
Ahab Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Without the Church, through the power of the priesthood within the Church, marriages will last only until death, so it's more like only with the Church can a marriage be saved. But even then only if those who are married will marry in the Lord's way.
WmLaw Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I personally wouldn't say that....I'm having a hard time thinking of a church teaching that would increase the likelihood of divorce though. The unhappy marriages I've seen or known just don't have much to do with the church teachings per se. In fact a good number hit problems because they didn't follow basic principles taught about marriage (mutual respect, fidelity, etc). The only thing I can really think of is the whole marry young and quick thing. But that's also subjective. (Talks don't generally give an exact age for marriage, just that it shouldn't be unnecessarily delayed when you can both go to the temple and you've spent sufficient enough time to know this is the right person. It's culture that pushes for super young and quick (though this is fading IMHO)). I'm trying to think of something that I could attribute specifically to the church teaching that would directly lead/contribute to divorce or an unhappy marriage....and I just can't think of one. And certainly not the reason mentioned in the OP. I've heard of the church being a problem when they have differing goals with faith or one falls away while the other remains, etc....but not specifically from church teaches. What the church teaches is to make marriage a top priority, marry someone in the temple (and follows the subsequent covenants tied to it), carefully consider who you marry, treat your spouse with love and respect and as your partner, etc. These wouldn't lead to unhappy marriages. They're pretty good predictors for a healthier, happier chance for a marriage. With luv,BDTraditionally in the Utah/LDS culture there have been some attitudes that may be contributing factors in some strained marriages, imo. The concepts of get married young, short engagements, have children early and often, to name a few. 1
Buzzard Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I don't think that the church bears the blame for divorce. It does happen that the church is often blamed for the divorce when one party decides that he or she doesn't want to continue activity or membership/belief. That changes the dynamics of the marriage in some pretty drastic ways, and may contribute to a breakup.IMHO, that means that leaving church activity often bears a good chunk of the blame for a divorce. Is that perhaps what the OP meant?
Nofear Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Indeed, I believe that is the kind of situation the Savior spoke about. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. (Matthew 10:34-36)
Recommended Posts