Mormon Visitor'S Center (Independence, Mo)

[BookofMormonLuvr]

So I finally had the chance to tour some of the buildings in, what I call, the "Temple Complex" since moving to Independence. Two very nice, well-informed sister missionaries with sincere testimonies led me around. Though they were very nice and I appreciate their willingness to serve, I did feel a bit like I was at a furniture store. I would have liked to be able to view certain portions at my own pace without interruption. Perhaps knowing I was Mormon before made them feel an obligation to reclaim me?

One thing I noticed...

John has a beard in the Bedner testimony video. The pictures I grew up seeing had him beardless. I like a bearded John.

One statement I heard from Hermana C.....

"Heavenly Father has a spouse."

It struck me because it seems LDS members, in recent years, have distanced themselves from such teachings. Maybe she thought it was safe because I WAS Mormon before?

So, do you think missionaries should be sharing such things with people or is that too beyond the basics for a Visitors Center tour?

[Judd]

Well, the proclamation to the world on the family makes reference to such teachings.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Well, the proclamation to the world on the family makes reference to such teachings.

Agreed... which is why the average LDS recalcitrance to discuss "Heavenly Mother" has baffled me. I actually appreciated Hermana C's candidness.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I really, really want the next President to grow a full-on Lorenzo Snow chin-warmer.

I also think we should proclaim the doctrine of Mother in Heaven from the rooftops and stop getting offended when people call us polytheists.

[Maidservant]

I don't know about "distancing" (not having polled 14 million members) . . . more like, "it goes without saying". We are a gospel about families. Period.

[randyj]

Agreed... which is why the average LDS recalcitrance to discuss "Heavenly Mother" has baffled me. I actually appreciated Hermana C's candidness.

Hey...I live in Independence....and go to the Indep. 3rd ward...at the meetinghouse over on Norfleet just south of 40 hwy about a mile or so. Our meetings start at 9am...drop by this sunday...i would like to meet you.

[TAO]

I think it is just because God wants us to keep her and things about her somewhat private and untalked about. Sometimes people take things about her far too seriously, and I think they are trying to avoid that. Whatever his reason; it is good enough for me. =)

[randyj]

I think it is just because God wants us to keep her and things about her somewhat private and untalked about. Sometimes people take things about her far too seriously, and I think they are trying to avoid that. Whatever his reason; it is good enough for me. =)

I agree. I've talked about this subject with friends who are sincerely wanting to know...or to clarify misconceptions they've heard etc. But, to simply bring that particular subject up out of the blue, would be..to me....somewhat unwise...generally speaking. I would determine to do so on a case by case basis, hopefully letting the spirit be my guide.

I agree with a sentiment given several years ago by someone who's name escapes me now...but he said..."so many take Heavenly Father's name in vain and mock him etc....why on earth would we expect him to reveal detailed knowledge about her....and then have his sweetheart subjected to that same kind of ridicule."

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I think the Queen of Heaven is tough enough to take on a few mortal dorks badmouthing Her.

As a convert, I have to say that the idea that our Father in Heaven is part of a family is a feature of Mormonism, not a bug. Why be shy about it?

"A Mother There": A Survey of Historical Teachings about Mother in Heaven by David Paulsen and Martin Pulido

Nephi and His Asherah: A Note on 1 Nephi 11:8—23 by Daniel C. Peterson

What Did King Josiah Reform? by Margaret Barker

[randyj]

I think the Queen of Heaven is tough enough to take on a few mortal dorks badmouthing Her.

As a convert, I have to say that the idea that our Father in Heaven is part of a family is a feature of Mormonism, not a bug. Why be shy about it?

"A Mother There": A Survey of Historical Teachings about Mother in Heaven by David Paulsen and Martin Pulido

Nephi and His Asherah: A Note on 1 Nephi 11:8—23 by Daniel C. Peterson

What Did King Josiah Reform? by Margaret Barker

HI Jeremy,

hahaha....oh I agree with you that she is quite "tough enough" to handle anything thrown at her....my point was more to the notion or idea of "why would Heavenely Father choose to subject her to that". My feeling is that HF is simply showing us by example of how we should exert every effort in protecting our wives from such things....not that they certainly couldn't handle it.

The Proclamation on the Family spells it out quite clearly and boldly. The Church isn't shy about it, but rather is measured in how it puts the teaching forward...ensuring appropriatness of setting etc. It's certainly not a teaching I am shy or reticent about discussing...but I certainly pick and choose the time and setting carefully in order that I am able to give myself adequate time to "give it justice" if you will.

[Damien the Leper]

If the ancient Jews weren't afraid to commune with the Mother then neither should we be. She is not 'too sacred' to talk about. She deserves more respect than silent recognition. She is the Mother afterall...

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Hey...I live in Independence....and go to the Indep. 3rd ward...at the meetinghouse over on Norfleet just south of 40 hwy about a mile or so. Our meetings start at 9am...drop by this sunday...i would like to meet you.

Maybe someday... it'll be difficult to talk my wife into checking out a LDS meeting. I personally would like to check out all the different BofMormon believing churchess in the area (I am nerdy that way, I love studying about the different Restoration churches).

You are invited to our Branch (Devon Park Restoration Branch) anytime. In fact. I will be preaching this next Sunday, July 8th.

[Damien the Leper]

BoM Luvr,

Check out the Cutlerites, Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, and Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Remnant church seems to have ruffled the feathers of Restorationist RLDS because it chose not to wait around for when the Lord would purge the RLDS/CoC of all its unrighteousness and restore it to the church that existed in the time of JS III.

[Stargazer]

I think the Queen of Heaven is tough enough to take on a few mortal dorks badmouthing Her.

As a convert, I have to say that the idea that our Father in Heaven is part of a family is a feature of Mormonism, not a bug. Why be shy about it?

"A Mother There": A Survey of Historical Teachings about Mother in Heaven by David Paulsen and Martin Pulido

Nephi and His Asherah: A Note on 1 Nephi 11:8—23 by Daniel C. Peterson

What Did King Josiah Reform? by Margaret Barker

Are you a computer programmer or something like that? I recall the sentiment you expressed in red above being expressed when discussing the issue of moving an item of software to production (or releasing it): "Well, let's call it a feature instead of a bug, and release the darned thing already!"

By example, one time I made a small 1 pixel error in a message display, which caused a message to be displayed in flashing red and blue, but with the words in the two colors slightly offset. It showed up in the QA product, and I said, "Oh crap, that's wrong, I'll fix it!" but the customer saw it and liked it, so that's the way it shipped.

[Spammer]

I was so inspired by Heavenly Father's loving concern to protect Heavenly Mother from ridicule and mockery that I implemented similar measures in my own home. No one is allowed to see my wife or speak to her, not even our kids who are away from home, for fear of the possibility of ridicule from children or from visitors. Instead, I carry all messages to her, properly vetted to ensure that any potentially offensive content is excised. I also bring her her food, carry out and do her laundry for her, and bring her anything she might need from the mall to keep her happy and free from the possibility of encountering anyone who might mock her. Out of love for her and an overwhelming desire to keep her safe from both injury and insult, I keep her safely ensconsed in her room, fittingly decorated and adorned in keeping with her holiness and purity. I know my wife appreciates my efforts. Everytime I open her door and ask her if she's happy, she looks up at me with tears in her eyes. Then she quickly lowers her head, looking at the floor, and with a quavering voice says 'Yes. Thank you'. It's so gratifying to know that she appreciates my efforts to protect her. If only more husbands would follow Heavenly Father's example and treat their wives with such love and respect. Women are so precious; they deserve to be sheltered from the possibility of all harm and offense.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Spammer

[Storm Rider]

I was so inspired by Heavenly Father's loving concern to protect Heavenly Mother from ridicule and mockery that I implemented similar measures in my own home. No one is allowed to see my wife or speak to her, not even our kids who are away from home, for fear of the possibility of ridicule from children or from visitors. Instead, I carry all messages to her, properly vetted to ensure that any potentially offensive content is excised. I also bring her her food, carry out and do her laundry for her, and bring her anything she might need from the mall to keep her happy. Out of love for her and an overwhelming desire to keep her safe from both injury and insult, I keep her safely ensconsed in her room, fittingly decorated and adorned in keeping with her holiness and purity. I know my wife appreciates my efforts. Everytime I open her door and ask her if she's happy, she looks up at me first with tears in her eyes, then she lowers her head looking down, and with a quavering voice she nods and says 'yes'. It's so gratifying to know that she appreciates my efforts to protect her. If only more husbands would follow Heavenly Father's example and treat their wives with such love and respect. Women are so precious; they deserve to be sheltered from the possibility of all harm and offense.

Aren't you so funny. Oh, wait I forgot to laugh rather than skake my head in pity.

[DH]

I think it is just because God wants us to keep her and things about her somewhat private and untalked about. Sometimes people take things about her far too seriously, and I think they are trying to avoid that. Whatever his reason; it is good enough for me. =)

When exactly did God say that?

Edited July 5, 2012 by DH

[Spammer]

Aren't you so funny. Oh, wait I forgot to laugh rather than skake my head in pity.

I'm laughing right now. Laughter is good for you.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

BoM Luvr,

Check out the Cutlerites, Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, and Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Remnant church seems to have ruffled the feathers of Restorationist RLDS because it chose not to wait around for when the Lord would purge the RLDS/CoC of all its unrighteousness and restore it to the church that existed in the time of JS III.

I actually live literally right next door to the Restoration Church and just around the block and around the corner from the Cutlerites. I know where a couple of "Elijah Message" churches are also. Hopefully I will get a chance to visit them soon.

The Conference of Branches (JCRB) I am involved in is trying to find ways in which we, and the Remnant, can work together without compromising our positions regarding church leadership. It has been quite the task, many people are still suspicious of the motives of others even almost 30 years after the whole mess with the now Community of Christ.

BTW, sitting on the Temple Lot watching Independence Day fireworks was awesome!

[LoudmouthMormon]

Agreed... which is why the average LDS recalcitrance to discuss "Heavenly Mother" has baffled me.

Sum total of official doctrine LM was ever taught about a Heavenly Mother: "It makes sense to believe we have one."

All else is speculation.

I don't talk about it more, because I'm not a huge fan of speculation.

*shrug*

[thesometimesaint]

I don't know as there is much known about Heavenly Mother other than she exists. Add in that we are commanded to pray only to Heavenly Father seems pretty explicit.

[Damien the Leper]

I actually live literally right next door to the Restoration Church and just around the block and around the corner from the Cutlerites. I know where a couple of "Elijah Message" churches are also. Hopefully I will get a chance to visit them soon.

The Conference of Branches (JCRB) I am involved in is trying to find ways in which we, and the Remnant, can work together without compromising our positions regarding church leadership. It has been quite the task, many people are still suspicious of the motives of others even almost 30 years after the whole mess with the now Community of Christ.

BTW, sitting on the Temple Lot watching Independence Day fireworks was awesome!

I'm not familiar with the Elijah Message churches.

I attended Valley of the Sun Restoration Branch in Phoenix, AZ. It was fascinating how similar they are to LDS in some respects. It was very 'old school' (no disrespect intended).

What do you think will be the end result between the Joint Conference of Restoration Branches and the Remnant LDS church? Has President Larsen been very cooperative in the efforts toward a mutual future?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I'm not familiar with the Elijah Message churches.

I attended Valley of the Sun Restoration Branch in Phoenix, AZ. It was fascinating how similar they are to LDS in some respects. It was very 'old school' (no disrespect intended).

What do you think will be the end result between the Joint Conference of Restoration Branches and the Remnant LDS church? Has President Larsen been very cooperative in the efforts toward a mutual future?

This site with it attendant links explains the Elijah Message churches fairly well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Christ_%28Fettingite%29

I am personally all for more charismatic meetings, but Restoration tradition seems to stifle such emotion during meetings. Hopefully, that is changing.

Bro. Fred seems very cooperative, but there are some that question his motives, believing he is just trying to take over control of our Branches. I am a little more optimistic.

[Damien the Leper]

This site with it attendant links explains the Elijah Message churches fairly well...

http://en.wikipedia....st_(Fettingite)

I am personally all for more charismatic meetings, but Restoration tradition seems to stifle such emotion during meetings. Hopefully, that is changing.

Bro. Fred seems very cooperative, but there are some that question his motives, believing he is just trying to take over control of our Branches. I am a little more optimistic.

What are the reasons for the mistrust? This is such a peculiar situation. How is the JCRB handling the situation overall? Are Richard and Pamela Price involved? Is Richard Price still alive or in good/poor health?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

What are the reasons for the mistrust? This is such a peculiar situation. How is the JCRB handling the situation overall? Are Richard and Pamela Price involved? Is Richard Price still alive or in good/poor health?

The whole fiasco with the leadership and the Community of Christ and their drive towards Liberalism, and then the various men that have set themselves up as "prophets" and led people away (Lee Abrahamson, Marcus Juby, Jeff Lundgren, etc...) Because of those things there are Saints that are suspicious of the motives of any person that seeks to step forward in faith and do something different then the "rules" established soon after 1984 to keep the Branches "pure".

I don't believe Bro. Price is doing too well. His son has taken over day to day operations of Price Publishing. Richard is not involved. In spite of the good he did do, in many ways he is the reason the many Branches are stuck on the hampster wheel, to afraid to move forward with any effort to further organize. He doesn't support any cooperative efforts that involve organization, and is apparently waiting for the LORD to personally stroll into a Community of Christ conference release everyone and set everything in order- and unfortunately has many convinced of his position.

Edited July 6, 2012 by BookofMormonLuvr